kallend 2,212 #51 October 4, 2009 QuoteMedicare/Medicaid fraud is $80 Billion PER YEAR at the low-end estimate and over $200 Billion PER YEAR at the high end. Most of this is by submitting fraudulant bills for people who don't get the treatment on the bills or don't even exist. . And what fraction of this is due to illegals?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 401 #52 October 5, 2009 Quote- The current legislation has no provisions to reduce this fraud. - By not having to provide identification...the fraud will certainly grow/increase. While I don't have a problem with requiring photo ID when registering for gov't benefits, I think people should be realistic in their expectations of what ID will be able to do wrt reducing fraud. My understanding is that the biggest share of Medicare/Medicaid fraud is businesses billing for devices or services that are in fact not provided. A while ago one of the news shows (60 minutes maybe) did an expose' in south Florida where they went around to the billing offices of the businesses that had the highest rate of billing Medicare/Medicaid, and they found that about 30% of those businesses are just post office boxes or a dummy office with no staff. They actually are completely fraudulent, they in fact have no patients and sell no devices. Photo ID will do nothing to cut down on that, it will take gov't inspectors to go around and verify on the ground that those businesses exist and are really doing what they are billing the taxpayers for. Unfortunately the prevailing philosophy for the last decade has been to "get regulators off the backs of business", which means cutting the staff needed to do the inspections. AFAIK, the currently proposed bills do nothing to remedy this situation, but I haven't read them in their entirety and I might have missed it. Of course, if you set up a situation where there's lots of money to be made, very little chance of getting caught, and even less chance of prosecution or serious penalties, enterprising "businessmen" will step up to the plate. Some $$ invested in enforcement and prosecution, and some stiff jail time, would pay big dividends in reducing fraud. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #53 October 5, 2009 Quote Medicare/Medicaid fraud is $80 Billion PER YEAR at the low-end estimate and over $200 Billion PER YEAR at the high end. Most of this is by submitting fraudulant bills for people who don't get the treatment on the bills or don't even exist. So are you trying to tell us (see the thread title) that checking IDs when an immigrant applies for the program would prevent, or even reduce this type of fraud? I don't get it. Quote - The current legislation has no provisions to reduce this fraud. Standard question: how would YOU address this issue? Please be realistic, and take in account that fraud prevention should not be too expensive (otherwise it's cheaper to let the fraud go). You'd find that this is surprisingly hard to address it. Also note that there are more types of fraud, which includes the people who do exist - for example, charging the insurance company for procedures which were not performed, or performed without medical necessity. Make sure your "fix" would not lead to just switching from one type of fraud to another. Quote - By not having to provide identification...the fraud will certainly grow/increase. According to the OP (unfortunately he did not provide the link), the amendment proposed was a) only for immigrants and b) only for sign-up. The fraud you mention happens mostly on citizens (I'd speculate that minority of immigrants receives Medicare), and only with those who have signed up already, probably long time ago. I fail to see how this change would address the issue you mentioned.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #54 October 5, 2009 QuoteMedicare/Medicaid fraud is $80 Billion PER YEAR at the low-end estimate and over $200 Billion PER YEAR at the high end. Most of this is by submitting fraudulant bills for people who don't get the treatment on the bills or don't even exist. I have pointed on some specific issues with your statement - could you please be constructive, and address them instead of just reposting what you've said before?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dsandreas 0 #55 October 7, 2009 Its not up to me to find a solution although I can think of some. I owe you nothing. Its INSANE for government to expand a program where there is massive fraud without fixing/improving it. BEFORE we expand government role in health care the government should prove they can prevent fraud and abuse. Some suggestions...greater penalties for those convcted, special task force of investigators and prosecutors, and improving technology. Until then...keep your mitts out of any expanded role. Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Medicare/Medicaid fraud is $80 Billion PER YEAR at the low-end estimate and over $200 Billion PER YEAR at the high end. Most of this is by submitting fraudulant bills for people who don't get the treatment on the bills or don't even exist. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have pointed on some specific issues with your statement - could you please be constructive, and address them instead of just reposting what you've said before? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dsandreas 0 #56 October 7, 2009 Who cares? Until the government can figure out how to fix a broken and broke system they have no business expanding it. If they can't figure out how to stop fraud....they should spend their time on that instead of taking over more. In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Medicare/Medicaid fraud is $80 Billion PER YEAR at the low-end estimate and over $200 Billion PER YEAR at the high end. Most of this is by submitting fraudulant bills for people who don't get the treatment on the bills or don't even exist. . -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And what fraction of this is due to illegals? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,212 #57 October 7, 2009 QuoteWho cares? Until the government can figure out how to fix a broken and broke system they have no business expanding it. If they can't figure out how to stop fraud....they should spend their time on that instead of taking over more. . You post an irrelevant statement and then can't answer a question on it so just have a nice rant instead. Maybe we should just shut down the military until every last ounce of fraud is eliminated in acquisitions. Same stupid logic that you use.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,638 #58 October 7, 2009 Quote Maybe we need to make sure of where fraud and abuse are happening. At least in LA, there has been a lot more attention paid to the papers that people bring in. However, it's not made much difference on a percentage basis. Story It's possible sometimes that the medicine is more expensive than the disease. Not that it means we need to just accept things as they are, but maybe find a better medicine. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks2065 0 #59 October 7, 2009 QuoteQuoteWho cares? Until the government can figure out how to fix a broken and broke system they have no business expanding it. If they can't figure out how to stop fraud....they should spend their time on that instead of taking over more. . You post an irrelevant statement and then can't answer a question on it so just have a nice rant instead. Maybe we should just shut down the military until every last ounce of fraud is eliminated in acquisitions. Same stupid logic that you use. Quotecontinueing to let government expand the programs they cannot run properly is the stupid thing. what is the quote?insanity is, repeating the same action and expecting different results. Why do we continue to let the government tighten its grip on our necks and continue to choke the life out of our country. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #60 October 7, 2009 QuoteYou post an irrelevant statement and then can't answer a question on it so just have a nice rant instead. Maybe we should just shut down the military until every last ounce of fraud is eliminated in acquisitions. Same stupid logic that you use. True, but I think it would be even more stupid to just spend more and ignore the waste."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dsandreas 0 #61 October 8, 2009 Idiotic example. That would be the equivalent of shutting down medicare and medicaid until they could fix it. Not what I suggested...not even close. Work on your reading comprehension...or was it purposeful? The government is clearly in over their heads running these pograms. Most of the bills in congress for health care are close to 1000 pages (or more). The resulting regulations will be 10's of thousands of pages. If they had confidence in the proposals the effective year for the program would not be 2013...after the Presidential election. Although the taxes start 2010...the programs start later as they know it will have a negative impact on those that voted for it when people see the mess. The cost estimates include 10 years of taxes and 7 years of the health benefit. Even with the deck stacked like this...over $800 billion. Quote In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Who cares? Until the government can figure out how to fix a broken and broke system they have no business expanding it. If they can't figure out how to stop fraud....they should spend their time on that instead of taking over more. You post an irrelevant statement and then can't answer a question on it so just have a nice rant instead. Maybe we should just shut down the military until every last ounce of fraud is eliminated in acquisitions. Same stupid logic that you use. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,169 #62 October 8, 2009 >Until the government can figure out how to fix a broken and >broke system they have no business expanding it. Agreed. Most conservatives seem to be against even fixes, though. They are banding together to thwart any change at all. Solve the problem of hospitals losing billions? Sorry, too "socialist." Deal with the problem of the uninsured? That's like killing grandma! I'm all for fixing the system, and would welcome any plan to get there. But the primary goal of the GOP lately is to ensure that Obama fails, not that American health care succeeds. Often they seem to be doing what they can to destroy the system, so that the blame can be hung around his neck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dsandreas 0 #63 October 8, 2009 What is wrong with: - Tort reform - eliminating state mandates and allowing insurance to be bought accross state lines. - reasonable regulation to stop insurance companies from dropping customers who get sick. - expand medicaid for legal residents who meet certain criteria. - aggressive prosecution of intentional cheaters; jail time for fraud. - tax deductability of medical expenses and insurance. All of this can be done in 20 pages or so without all the hidden benefits for special interests. Can be done without another government takeover Glad we agree now. Quote Agreed. Most conservatives seem to be against even fixes, though. They are banding together to thwart any change at all. Solve the problem of hospitals losing billions? Sorry, too "socialist." Deal with the problem of the uninsured? That's like killing grandma! I'm all for fixing the system, and would welcome any plan to get there. But the primary goal of the GOP lately is to ensure that Obama fails, not that American health care succeeds. Often they seem to be doing what they can to destroy the system, so that the blame can be hung around his neck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dsandreas 0 #64 October 8, 2009 p.s....of course I want Obama to fail in this plan because its wrong for the country. I care about the country...I could care less about any of the politicians; GOP or Dems. I love the country...not our king. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #65 October 8, 2009 Quote Its not up to me to find a solution although I can think of some. I owe you nothing. Well, if you only capable to finding flaws in everything, and cannot come up with anything yourself, then I'd afraid your opinion is kinda worthless. There is no, and never will be a perfect law or perfect society institution, and all of them will have flaws. Quote Its INSANE for government to expand a program where there is massive fraud without fixing/improving it. BEFORE we expand government role in health care the government should prove they can prevent fraud and abuse. So could you please enlighten us with your infinite wisdom by telling us how checking immigrant IDs (again, see the topic title) would prevent this kind of fraud? Quote Some suggestions...greater penalties for those convcted, special task force of investigators and prosecutors, and improving technology. I hope you understand that what you suggested is not unique in any possible way, and of course it will not fix anything. Read more about how the type of fraud you just described works, and you'll see why.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #66 October 8, 2009 Quote What is wrong with: - Tort reform Depends on reform. My main concern is that even after the reform the insurers will not lower the cost for doctor malpractice policies. Why should they, it's not like they're in the business of lowering the healthcare costs for the public. Another concern is recent case in Russia, where a man shooted a bunch of people, including the doctor who didn't save his daughter from overdose, and a police officer who provided cover for drug dealers - together with a drug dealer. This guy has been found not guilty at least twice by jury, both times the verdict was overturned by Supreme Court, and this time they want to trial him without jury (which is against the law, so I wonder how exactly would they do it - no doubt they will). The case, however, is that the guy who lost his daughter basically had no other remedies besides just getting a gun and shooting the doctor - and it is questionable whether there was any doctor's fault at all. Maybe if he had an option to sue the doctor, he'd unlikely go this way, and somehow I think the doctor would prefer to pay more for the policy than being shot. Quote - eliminating state mandates and allowing insurance to be bought accross state lines. The bill does all it can by maintaining minimum insurance plan requirements, and providing public option. The rest is up to the states - unless, of course, you're in favor of giving even more power to federal government. Quote - reasonable regulation to stop insurance companies from dropping customers who get sick. This is done already in most states if the person maintains coverage. The problem comes when the person drops coverage for some reasons. Quote - expand medicaid for legal residents who meet certain criteria. Already done at least in California. No idea what kind of criteria they have though. Quote - aggressive prosecution of intentional cheaters; jail time for fraud. This gonna be hard. I'd speculate billing for procedures not performed (and not billing for those performed) occasionally happens in every medical office. Humans make mistakes, and part of this prosecution task force would be wasted on those mistakes. For the real fraudsters, the main problem may be that there is nobody to prosecute - a shell company, which has no money in the bank, and is registered to an alcoholic. The real owner may be as well outside the country, which makes it even more difficult and money-consuming. Now, jail time - I just read that keeping one prisoner in jail costs the taxpayers something like 40K a year, and this means that if the person steals less than 40K a year, it's cheaper to just keep them out of jail, direct savings. Quote - tax deductability of medical expenses and insurance. They are deductible through HSA. Quote All of this can be done in 20 pages or so without all the hidden benefits for special interests. Can be done without another government takeover And now guess what would be the chance your bill would pass without those "special interests", like excluding those who believe in crap like "faith healing"? Zero.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dsandreas 0 #67 October 9, 2009 Read and learn..... - Insurance premiums are not tax deductible. - An individual wanting to buy insurance has no HSA. - CA is broke. Check the news. - Tort reform works in states where it is tried. Doesn't matter what you think...the facts are in. - I have NO desire for the feds to determine coverage. Let the insurance companies offer a wide variety. - Read "intentional" cheaters; there are those caught committing fraud on purpose, not an office mistake. Jail is a deterrent to stop others, not about the cost for one crime. - If a person wants to drop their coverage, this used to be a free country. - This is not Russia; personally I like it that way. - Government run insurance is worse everywhere than the free market here. - Polls show 30% of Mexican citizens would like to live in the US. We don't need another magnet. - If you want a check, get a job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #68 October 9, 2009 Quote - Insurance premiums are not tax deductible. Mine are. No idea why yours aren't Quote - An individual wanting to buy insurance has no HSA. Opening an HSA account takes a few minutes and is free. Quote - CA is broke. Check the news. So what? Quote - Tort reform works in states where it is tried. Doesn't matter what you think...the facts are in. So show us the facts? Quote - I have NO desire for the feds to determine coverage. Let the insurance companies offer a wide variety. So what's the problem? Get the insurance from private company, and you'll have it. Quote - Read "intentional" cheaters; there are those caught committing fraud on purpose, not an office mistake. Jail is a deterrent to stop others, not about the cost for one crime. You cannot have investigators to catch only intended cheaters. A lot of work needs to be done before they can understand it was just a mistake, and not cheating. At this moment efforts are already wasted. Quote - If a person wants to drop their coverage, this used to be a free country. It also used to be that nobody was required to treat this person for free either. Quote - Government run insurance is worse everywhere than the free market here. Define "worse". Quote - Polls show 30% of Mexican citizens would like to live in the US. We don't need another magnet. What are you talking about? They can already get free healthcare in ER. Quote- If you want a check, get a job. I have a job. I just don't need your prayers.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
dsandreas 0 #56 October 7, 2009 Who cares? Until the government can figure out how to fix a broken and broke system they have no business expanding it. If they can't figure out how to stop fraud....they should spend their time on that instead of taking over more. In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Medicare/Medicaid fraud is $80 Billion PER YEAR at the low-end estimate and over $200 Billion PER YEAR at the high end. Most of this is by submitting fraudulant bills for people who don't get the treatment on the bills or don't even exist. . -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And what fraction of this is due to illegals? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,212 #57 October 7, 2009 QuoteWho cares? Until the government can figure out how to fix a broken and broke system they have no business expanding it. If they can't figure out how to stop fraud....they should spend their time on that instead of taking over more. . You post an irrelevant statement and then can't answer a question on it so just have a nice rant instead. Maybe we should just shut down the military until every last ounce of fraud is eliminated in acquisitions. Same stupid logic that you use.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,638 #58 October 7, 2009 Quote Maybe we need to make sure of where fraud and abuse are happening. At least in LA, there has been a lot more attention paid to the papers that people bring in. However, it's not made much difference on a percentage basis. Story It's possible sometimes that the medicine is more expensive than the disease. Not that it means we need to just accept things as they are, but maybe find a better medicine. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks2065 0 #59 October 7, 2009 QuoteQuoteWho cares? Until the government can figure out how to fix a broken and broke system they have no business expanding it. If they can't figure out how to stop fraud....they should spend their time on that instead of taking over more. . You post an irrelevant statement and then can't answer a question on it so just have a nice rant instead. Maybe we should just shut down the military until every last ounce of fraud is eliminated in acquisitions. Same stupid logic that you use. Quotecontinueing to let government expand the programs they cannot run properly is the stupid thing. what is the quote?insanity is, repeating the same action and expecting different results. Why do we continue to let the government tighten its grip on our necks and continue to choke the life out of our country. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #60 October 7, 2009 QuoteYou post an irrelevant statement and then can't answer a question on it so just have a nice rant instead. Maybe we should just shut down the military until every last ounce of fraud is eliminated in acquisitions. Same stupid logic that you use. True, but I think it would be even more stupid to just spend more and ignore the waste."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dsandreas 0 #61 October 8, 2009 Idiotic example. That would be the equivalent of shutting down medicare and medicaid until they could fix it. Not what I suggested...not even close. Work on your reading comprehension...or was it purposeful? The government is clearly in over their heads running these pograms. Most of the bills in congress for health care are close to 1000 pages (or more). The resulting regulations will be 10's of thousands of pages. If they had confidence in the proposals the effective year for the program would not be 2013...after the Presidential election. Although the taxes start 2010...the programs start later as they know it will have a negative impact on those that voted for it when people see the mess. The cost estimates include 10 years of taxes and 7 years of the health benefit. Even with the deck stacked like this...over $800 billion. Quote In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Who cares? Until the government can figure out how to fix a broken and broke system they have no business expanding it. If they can't figure out how to stop fraud....they should spend their time on that instead of taking over more. You post an irrelevant statement and then can't answer a question on it so just have a nice rant instead. Maybe we should just shut down the military until every last ounce of fraud is eliminated in acquisitions. Same stupid logic that you use. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,169 #62 October 8, 2009 >Until the government can figure out how to fix a broken and >broke system they have no business expanding it. Agreed. Most conservatives seem to be against even fixes, though. They are banding together to thwart any change at all. Solve the problem of hospitals losing billions? Sorry, too "socialist." Deal with the problem of the uninsured? That's like killing grandma! I'm all for fixing the system, and would welcome any plan to get there. But the primary goal of the GOP lately is to ensure that Obama fails, not that American health care succeeds. Often they seem to be doing what they can to destroy the system, so that the blame can be hung around his neck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dsandreas 0 #63 October 8, 2009 What is wrong with: - Tort reform - eliminating state mandates and allowing insurance to be bought accross state lines. - reasonable regulation to stop insurance companies from dropping customers who get sick. - expand medicaid for legal residents who meet certain criteria. - aggressive prosecution of intentional cheaters; jail time for fraud. - tax deductability of medical expenses and insurance. All of this can be done in 20 pages or so without all the hidden benefits for special interests. Can be done without another government takeover Glad we agree now. Quote Agreed. Most conservatives seem to be against even fixes, though. They are banding together to thwart any change at all. Solve the problem of hospitals losing billions? Sorry, too "socialist." Deal with the problem of the uninsured? That's like killing grandma! I'm all for fixing the system, and would welcome any plan to get there. But the primary goal of the GOP lately is to ensure that Obama fails, not that American health care succeeds. Often they seem to be doing what they can to destroy the system, so that the blame can be hung around his neck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dsandreas 0 #64 October 8, 2009 p.s....of course I want Obama to fail in this plan because its wrong for the country. I care about the country...I could care less about any of the politicians; GOP or Dems. I love the country...not our king. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #65 October 8, 2009 Quote Its not up to me to find a solution although I can think of some. I owe you nothing. Well, if you only capable to finding flaws in everything, and cannot come up with anything yourself, then I'd afraid your opinion is kinda worthless. There is no, and never will be a perfect law or perfect society institution, and all of them will have flaws. Quote Its INSANE for government to expand a program where there is massive fraud without fixing/improving it. BEFORE we expand government role in health care the government should prove they can prevent fraud and abuse. So could you please enlighten us with your infinite wisdom by telling us how checking immigrant IDs (again, see the topic title) would prevent this kind of fraud? Quote Some suggestions...greater penalties for those convcted, special task force of investigators and prosecutors, and improving technology. I hope you understand that what you suggested is not unique in any possible way, and of course it will not fix anything. Read more about how the type of fraud you just described works, and you'll see why.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #66 October 8, 2009 Quote What is wrong with: - Tort reform Depends on reform. My main concern is that even after the reform the insurers will not lower the cost for doctor malpractice policies. Why should they, it's not like they're in the business of lowering the healthcare costs for the public. Another concern is recent case in Russia, where a man shooted a bunch of people, including the doctor who didn't save his daughter from overdose, and a police officer who provided cover for drug dealers - together with a drug dealer. This guy has been found not guilty at least twice by jury, both times the verdict was overturned by Supreme Court, and this time they want to trial him without jury (which is against the law, so I wonder how exactly would they do it - no doubt they will). The case, however, is that the guy who lost his daughter basically had no other remedies besides just getting a gun and shooting the doctor - and it is questionable whether there was any doctor's fault at all. Maybe if he had an option to sue the doctor, he'd unlikely go this way, and somehow I think the doctor would prefer to pay more for the policy than being shot. Quote - eliminating state mandates and allowing insurance to be bought accross state lines. The bill does all it can by maintaining minimum insurance plan requirements, and providing public option. The rest is up to the states - unless, of course, you're in favor of giving even more power to federal government. Quote - reasonable regulation to stop insurance companies from dropping customers who get sick. This is done already in most states if the person maintains coverage. The problem comes when the person drops coverage for some reasons. Quote - expand medicaid for legal residents who meet certain criteria. Already done at least in California. No idea what kind of criteria they have though. Quote - aggressive prosecution of intentional cheaters; jail time for fraud. This gonna be hard. I'd speculate billing for procedures not performed (and not billing for those performed) occasionally happens in every medical office. Humans make mistakes, and part of this prosecution task force would be wasted on those mistakes. For the real fraudsters, the main problem may be that there is nobody to prosecute - a shell company, which has no money in the bank, and is registered to an alcoholic. The real owner may be as well outside the country, which makes it even more difficult and money-consuming. Now, jail time - I just read that keeping one prisoner in jail costs the taxpayers something like 40K a year, and this means that if the person steals less than 40K a year, it's cheaper to just keep them out of jail, direct savings. Quote - tax deductability of medical expenses and insurance. They are deductible through HSA. Quote All of this can be done in 20 pages or so without all the hidden benefits for special interests. Can be done without another government takeover And now guess what would be the chance your bill would pass without those "special interests", like excluding those who believe in crap like "faith healing"? Zero.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dsandreas 0 #67 October 9, 2009 Read and learn..... - Insurance premiums are not tax deductible. - An individual wanting to buy insurance has no HSA. - CA is broke. Check the news. - Tort reform works in states where it is tried. Doesn't matter what you think...the facts are in. - I have NO desire for the feds to determine coverage. Let the insurance companies offer a wide variety. - Read "intentional" cheaters; there are those caught committing fraud on purpose, not an office mistake. Jail is a deterrent to stop others, not about the cost for one crime. - If a person wants to drop their coverage, this used to be a free country. - This is not Russia; personally I like it that way. - Government run insurance is worse everywhere than the free market here. - Polls show 30% of Mexican citizens would like to live in the US. We don't need another magnet. - If you want a check, get a job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #68 October 9, 2009 Quote - Insurance premiums are not tax deductible. Mine are. No idea why yours aren't Quote - An individual wanting to buy insurance has no HSA. Opening an HSA account takes a few minutes and is free. Quote - CA is broke. Check the news. So what? Quote - Tort reform works in states where it is tried. Doesn't matter what you think...the facts are in. So show us the facts? Quote - I have NO desire for the feds to determine coverage. Let the insurance companies offer a wide variety. So what's the problem? Get the insurance from private company, and you'll have it. Quote - Read "intentional" cheaters; there are those caught committing fraud on purpose, not an office mistake. Jail is a deterrent to stop others, not about the cost for one crime. You cannot have investigators to catch only intended cheaters. A lot of work needs to be done before they can understand it was just a mistake, and not cheating. At this moment efforts are already wasted. Quote - If a person wants to drop their coverage, this used to be a free country. It also used to be that nobody was required to treat this person for free either. Quote - Government run insurance is worse everywhere than the free market here. Define "worse". Quote - Polls show 30% of Mexican citizens would like to live in the US. We don't need another magnet. What are you talking about? They can already get free healthcare in ER. Quote- If you want a check, get a job. I have a job. I just don't need your prayers.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
wmw999 2,638 #58 October 7, 2009 Quote Maybe we need to make sure of where fraud and abuse are happening. At least in LA, there has been a lot more attention paid to the papers that people bring in. However, it's not made much difference on a percentage basis. Story It's possible sometimes that the medicine is more expensive than the disease. Not that it means we need to just accept things as they are, but maybe find a better medicine. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #59 October 7, 2009 QuoteQuoteWho cares? Until the government can figure out how to fix a broken and broke system they have no business expanding it. If they can't figure out how to stop fraud....they should spend their time on that instead of taking over more. . You post an irrelevant statement and then can't answer a question on it so just have a nice rant instead. Maybe we should just shut down the military until every last ounce of fraud is eliminated in acquisitions. Same stupid logic that you use. Quotecontinueing to let government expand the programs they cannot run properly is the stupid thing. what is the quote?insanity is, repeating the same action and expecting different results. Why do we continue to let the government tighten its grip on our necks and continue to choke the life out of our country. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #60 October 7, 2009 QuoteYou post an irrelevant statement and then can't answer a question on it so just have a nice rant instead. Maybe we should just shut down the military until every last ounce of fraud is eliminated in acquisitions. Same stupid logic that you use. True, but I think it would be even more stupid to just spend more and ignore the waste."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dsandreas 0 #61 October 8, 2009 Idiotic example. That would be the equivalent of shutting down medicare and medicaid until they could fix it. Not what I suggested...not even close. Work on your reading comprehension...or was it purposeful? The government is clearly in over their heads running these pograms. Most of the bills in congress for health care are close to 1000 pages (or more). The resulting regulations will be 10's of thousands of pages. If they had confidence in the proposals the effective year for the program would not be 2013...after the Presidential election. Although the taxes start 2010...the programs start later as they know it will have a negative impact on those that voted for it when people see the mess. The cost estimates include 10 years of taxes and 7 years of the health benefit. Even with the deck stacked like this...over $800 billion. Quote In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Who cares? Until the government can figure out how to fix a broken and broke system they have no business expanding it. If they can't figure out how to stop fraud....they should spend their time on that instead of taking over more. You post an irrelevant statement and then can't answer a question on it so just have a nice rant instead. Maybe we should just shut down the military until every last ounce of fraud is eliminated in acquisitions. Same stupid logic that you use. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,169 #62 October 8, 2009 >Until the government can figure out how to fix a broken and >broke system they have no business expanding it. Agreed. Most conservatives seem to be against even fixes, though. They are banding together to thwart any change at all. Solve the problem of hospitals losing billions? Sorry, too "socialist." Deal with the problem of the uninsured? That's like killing grandma! I'm all for fixing the system, and would welcome any plan to get there. But the primary goal of the GOP lately is to ensure that Obama fails, not that American health care succeeds. Often they seem to be doing what they can to destroy the system, so that the blame can be hung around his neck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dsandreas 0 #63 October 8, 2009 What is wrong with: - Tort reform - eliminating state mandates and allowing insurance to be bought accross state lines. - reasonable regulation to stop insurance companies from dropping customers who get sick. - expand medicaid for legal residents who meet certain criteria. - aggressive prosecution of intentional cheaters; jail time for fraud. - tax deductability of medical expenses and insurance. All of this can be done in 20 pages or so without all the hidden benefits for special interests. Can be done without another government takeover Glad we agree now. Quote Agreed. Most conservatives seem to be against even fixes, though. They are banding together to thwart any change at all. Solve the problem of hospitals losing billions? Sorry, too "socialist." Deal with the problem of the uninsured? That's like killing grandma! I'm all for fixing the system, and would welcome any plan to get there. But the primary goal of the GOP lately is to ensure that Obama fails, not that American health care succeeds. Often they seem to be doing what they can to destroy the system, so that the blame can be hung around his neck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dsandreas 0 #64 October 8, 2009 p.s....of course I want Obama to fail in this plan because its wrong for the country. I care about the country...I could care less about any of the politicians; GOP or Dems. I love the country...not our king. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #65 October 8, 2009 Quote Its not up to me to find a solution although I can think of some. I owe you nothing. Well, if you only capable to finding flaws in everything, and cannot come up with anything yourself, then I'd afraid your opinion is kinda worthless. There is no, and never will be a perfect law or perfect society institution, and all of them will have flaws. Quote Its INSANE for government to expand a program where there is massive fraud without fixing/improving it. BEFORE we expand government role in health care the government should prove they can prevent fraud and abuse. So could you please enlighten us with your infinite wisdom by telling us how checking immigrant IDs (again, see the topic title) would prevent this kind of fraud? Quote Some suggestions...greater penalties for those convcted, special task force of investigators and prosecutors, and improving technology. I hope you understand that what you suggested is not unique in any possible way, and of course it will not fix anything. Read more about how the type of fraud you just described works, and you'll see why.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #66 October 8, 2009 Quote What is wrong with: - Tort reform Depends on reform. My main concern is that even after the reform the insurers will not lower the cost for doctor malpractice policies. Why should they, it's not like they're in the business of lowering the healthcare costs for the public. Another concern is recent case in Russia, where a man shooted a bunch of people, including the doctor who didn't save his daughter from overdose, and a police officer who provided cover for drug dealers - together with a drug dealer. This guy has been found not guilty at least twice by jury, both times the verdict was overturned by Supreme Court, and this time they want to trial him without jury (which is against the law, so I wonder how exactly would they do it - no doubt they will). The case, however, is that the guy who lost his daughter basically had no other remedies besides just getting a gun and shooting the doctor - and it is questionable whether there was any doctor's fault at all. Maybe if he had an option to sue the doctor, he'd unlikely go this way, and somehow I think the doctor would prefer to pay more for the policy than being shot. Quote - eliminating state mandates and allowing insurance to be bought accross state lines. The bill does all it can by maintaining minimum insurance plan requirements, and providing public option. The rest is up to the states - unless, of course, you're in favor of giving even more power to federal government. Quote - reasonable regulation to stop insurance companies from dropping customers who get sick. This is done already in most states if the person maintains coverage. The problem comes when the person drops coverage for some reasons. Quote - expand medicaid for legal residents who meet certain criteria. Already done at least in California. No idea what kind of criteria they have though. Quote - aggressive prosecution of intentional cheaters; jail time for fraud. This gonna be hard. I'd speculate billing for procedures not performed (and not billing for those performed) occasionally happens in every medical office. Humans make mistakes, and part of this prosecution task force would be wasted on those mistakes. For the real fraudsters, the main problem may be that there is nobody to prosecute - a shell company, which has no money in the bank, and is registered to an alcoholic. The real owner may be as well outside the country, which makes it even more difficult and money-consuming. Now, jail time - I just read that keeping one prisoner in jail costs the taxpayers something like 40K a year, and this means that if the person steals less than 40K a year, it's cheaper to just keep them out of jail, direct savings. Quote - tax deductability of medical expenses and insurance. They are deductible through HSA. Quote All of this can be done in 20 pages or so without all the hidden benefits for special interests. Can be done without another government takeover And now guess what would be the chance your bill would pass without those "special interests", like excluding those who believe in crap like "faith healing"? Zero.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dsandreas 0 #67 October 9, 2009 Read and learn..... - Insurance premiums are not tax deductible. - An individual wanting to buy insurance has no HSA. - CA is broke. Check the news. - Tort reform works in states where it is tried. Doesn't matter what you think...the facts are in. - I have NO desire for the feds to determine coverage. Let the insurance companies offer a wide variety. - Read "intentional" cheaters; there are those caught committing fraud on purpose, not an office mistake. Jail is a deterrent to stop others, not about the cost for one crime. - If a person wants to drop their coverage, this used to be a free country. - This is not Russia; personally I like it that way. - Government run insurance is worse everywhere than the free market here. - Polls show 30% of Mexican citizens would like to live in the US. We don't need another magnet. - If you want a check, get a job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #68 October 9, 2009 Quote - Insurance premiums are not tax deductible. Mine are. No idea why yours aren't Quote - An individual wanting to buy insurance has no HSA. Opening an HSA account takes a few minutes and is free. Quote - CA is broke. Check the news. So what? Quote - Tort reform works in states where it is tried. Doesn't matter what you think...the facts are in. So show us the facts? Quote - I have NO desire for the feds to determine coverage. Let the insurance companies offer a wide variety. So what's the problem? Get the insurance from private company, and you'll have it. Quote - Read "intentional" cheaters; there are those caught committing fraud on purpose, not an office mistake. Jail is a deterrent to stop others, not about the cost for one crime. You cannot have investigators to catch only intended cheaters. A lot of work needs to be done before they can understand it was just a mistake, and not cheating. At this moment efforts are already wasted. Quote - If a person wants to drop their coverage, this used to be a free country. It also used to be that nobody was required to treat this person for free either. Quote - Government run insurance is worse everywhere than the free market here. Define "worse". Quote - Polls show 30% of Mexican citizens would like to live in the US. We don't need another magnet. What are you talking about? They can already get free healthcare in ER. Quote- If you want a check, get a job. I have a job. I just don't need your prayers.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Ron 10 #60 October 7, 2009 QuoteYou post an irrelevant statement and then can't answer a question on it so just have a nice rant instead. Maybe we should just shut down the military until every last ounce of fraud is eliminated in acquisitions. Same stupid logic that you use. True, but I think it would be even more stupid to just spend more and ignore the waste."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dsandreas 0 #61 October 8, 2009 Idiotic example. That would be the equivalent of shutting down medicare and medicaid until they could fix it. Not what I suggested...not even close. Work on your reading comprehension...or was it purposeful? The government is clearly in over their heads running these pograms. Most of the bills in congress for health care are close to 1000 pages (or more). The resulting regulations will be 10's of thousands of pages. If they had confidence in the proposals the effective year for the program would not be 2013...after the Presidential election. Although the taxes start 2010...the programs start later as they know it will have a negative impact on those that voted for it when people see the mess. The cost estimates include 10 years of taxes and 7 years of the health benefit. Even with the deck stacked like this...over $800 billion. Quote In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Who cares? Until the government can figure out how to fix a broken and broke system they have no business expanding it. If they can't figure out how to stop fraud....they should spend their time on that instead of taking over more. You post an irrelevant statement and then can't answer a question on it so just have a nice rant instead. Maybe we should just shut down the military until every last ounce of fraud is eliminated in acquisitions. Same stupid logic that you use. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,169 #62 October 8, 2009 >Until the government can figure out how to fix a broken and >broke system they have no business expanding it. Agreed. Most conservatives seem to be against even fixes, though. They are banding together to thwart any change at all. Solve the problem of hospitals losing billions? Sorry, too "socialist." Deal with the problem of the uninsured? That's like killing grandma! I'm all for fixing the system, and would welcome any plan to get there. But the primary goal of the GOP lately is to ensure that Obama fails, not that American health care succeeds. Often they seem to be doing what they can to destroy the system, so that the blame can be hung around his neck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dsandreas 0 #63 October 8, 2009 What is wrong with: - Tort reform - eliminating state mandates and allowing insurance to be bought accross state lines. - reasonable regulation to stop insurance companies from dropping customers who get sick. - expand medicaid for legal residents who meet certain criteria. - aggressive prosecution of intentional cheaters; jail time for fraud. - tax deductability of medical expenses and insurance. All of this can be done in 20 pages or so without all the hidden benefits for special interests. Can be done without another government takeover Glad we agree now. Quote Agreed. Most conservatives seem to be against even fixes, though. They are banding together to thwart any change at all. Solve the problem of hospitals losing billions? Sorry, too "socialist." Deal with the problem of the uninsured? That's like killing grandma! I'm all for fixing the system, and would welcome any plan to get there. But the primary goal of the GOP lately is to ensure that Obama fails, not that American health care succeeds. Often they seem to be doing what they can to destroy the system, so that the blame can be hung around his neck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dsandreas 0 #64 October 8, 2009 p.s....of course I want Obama to fail in this plan because its wrong for the country. I care about the country...I could care less about any of the politicians; GOP or Dems. I love the country...not our king. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #65 October 8, 2009 Quote Its not up to me to find a solution although I can think of some. I owe you nothing. Well, if you only capable to finding flaws in everything, and cannot come up with anything yourself, then I'd afraid your opinion is kinda worthless. There is no, and never will be a perfect law or perfect society institution, and all of them will have flaws. Quote Its INSANE for government to expand a program where there is massive fraud without fixing/improving it. BEFORE we expand government role in health care the government should prove they can prevent fraud and abuse. So could you please enlighten us with your infinite wisdom by telling us how checking immigrant IDs (again, see the topic title) would prevent this kind of fraud? Quote Some suggestions...greater penalties for those convcted, special task force of investigators and prosecutors, and improving technology. I hope you understand that what you suggested is not unique in any possible way, and of course it will not fix anything. Read more about how the type of fraud you just described works, and you'll see why.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #66 October 8, 2009 Quote What is wrong with: - Tort reform Depends on reform. My main concern is that even after the reform the insurers will not lower the cost for doctor malpractice policies. Why should they, it's not like they're in the business of lowering the healthcare costs for the public. Another concern is recent case in Russia, where a man shooted a bunch of people, including the doctor who didn't save his daughter from overdose, and a police officer who provided cover for drug dealers - together with a drug dealer. This guy has been found not guilty at least twice by jury, both times the verdict was overturned by Supreme Court, and this time they want to trial him without jury (which is against the law, so I wonder how exactly would they do it - no doubt they will). The case, however, is that the guy who lost his daughter basically had no other remedies besides just getting a gun and shooting the doctor - and it is questionable whether there was any doctor's fault at all. Maybe if he had an option to sue the doctor, he'd unlikely go this way, and somehow I think the doctor would prefer to pay more for the policy than being shot. Quote - eliminating state mandates and allowing insurance to be bought accross state lines. The bill does all it can by maintaining minimum insurance plan requirements, and providing public option. The rest is up to the states - unless, of course, you're in favor of giving even more power to federal government. Quote - reasonable regulation to stop insurance companies from dropping customers who get sick. This is done already in most states if the person maintains coverage. The problem comes when the person drops coverage for some reasons. Quote - expand medicaid for legal residents who meet certain criteria. Already done at least in California. No idea what kind of criteria they have though. Quote - aggressive prosecution of intentional cheaters; jail time for fraud. This gonna be hard. I'd speculate billing for procedures not performed (and not billing for those performed) occasionally happens in every medical office. Humans make mistakes, and part of this prosecution task force would be wasted on those mistakes. For the real fraudsters, the main problem may be that there is nobody to prosecute - a shell company, which has no money in the bank, and is registered to an alcoholic. The real owner may be as well outside the country, which makes it even more difficult and money-consuming. Now, jail time - I just read that keeping one prisoner in jail costs the taxpayers something like 40K a year, and this means that if the person steals less than 40K a year, it's cheaper to just keep them out of jail, direct savings. Quote - tax deductability of medical expenses and insurance. They are deductible through HSA. Quote All of this can be done in 20 pages or so without all the hidden benefits for special interests. Can be done without another government takeover And now guess what would be the chance your bill would pass without those "special interests", like excluding those who believe in crap like "faith healing"? Zero.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dsandreas 0 #67 October 9, 2009 Read and learn..... - Insurance premiums are not tax deductible. - An individual wanting to buy insurance has no HSA. - CA is broke. Check the news. - Tort reform works in states where it is tried. Doesn't matter what you think...the facts are in. - I have NO desire for the feds to determine coverage. Let the insurance companies offer a wide variety. - Read "intentional" cheaters; there are those caught committing fraud on purpose, not an office mistake. Jail is a deterrent to stop others, not about the cost for one crime. - If a person wants to drop their coverage, this used to be a free country. - This is not Russia; personally I like it that way. - Government run insurance is worse everywhere than the free market here. - Polls show 30% of Mexican citizens would like to live in the US. We don't need another magnet. - If you want a check, get a job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #68 October 9, 2009 Quote - Insurance premiums are not tax deductible. Mine are. No idea why yours aren't Quote - An individual wanting to buy insurance has no HSA. Opening an HSA account takes a few minutes and is free. Quote - CA is broke. Check the news. So what? Quote - Tort reform works in states where it is tried. Doesn't matter what you think...the facts are in. So show us the facts? Quote - I have NO desire for the feds to determine coverage. Let the insurance companies offer a wide variety. So what's the problem? Get the insurance from private company, and you'll have it. Quote - Read "intentional" cheaters; there are those caught committing fraud on purpose, not an office mistake. Jail is a deterrent to stop others, not about the cost for one crime. You cannot have investigators to catch only intended cheaters. A lot of work needs to be done before they can understand it was just a mistake, and not cheating. At this moment efforts are already wasted. Quote - If a person wants to drop their coverage, this used to be a free country. It also used to be that nobody was required to treat this person for free either. Quote - Government run insurance is worse everywhere than the free market here. Define "worse". Quote - Polls show 30% of Mexican citizens would like to live in the US. We don't need another magnet. What are you talking about? They can already get free healthcare in ER. Quote- If you want a check, get a job. I have a job. I just don't need your prayers.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
billvon 3,169 #62 October 8, 2009 >Until the government can figure out how to fix a broken and >broke system they have no business expanding it. Agreed. Most conservatives seem to be against even fixes, though. They are banding together to thwart any change at all. Solve the problem of hospitals losing billions? Sorry, too "socialist." Deal with the problem of the uninsured? That's like killing grandma! I'm all for fixing the system, and would welcome any plan to get there. But the primary goal of the GOP lately is to ensure that Obama fails, not that American health care succeeds. Often they seem to be doing what they can to destroy the system, so that the blame can be hung around his neck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dsandreas 0 #63 October 8, 2009 What is wrong with: - Tort reform - eliminating state mandates and allowing insurance to be bought accross state lines. - reasonable regulation to stop insurance companies from dropping customers who get sick. - expand medicaid for legal residents who meet certain criteria. - aggressive prosecution of intentional cheaters; jail time for fraud. - tax deductability of medical expenses and insurance. All of this can be done in 20 pages or so without all the hidden benefits for special interests. Can be done without another government takeover Glad we agree now. Quote Agreed. Most conservatives seem to be against even fixes, though. They are banding together to thwart any change at all. Solve the problem of hospitals losing billions? Sorry, too "socialist." Deal with the problem of the uninsured? That's like killing grandma! I'm all for fixing the system, and would welcome any plan to get there. But the primary goal of the GOP lately is to ensure that Obama fails, not that American health care succeeds. Often they seem to be doing what they can to destroy the system, so that the blame can be hung around his neck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dsandreas 0 #64 October 8, 2009 p.s....of course I want Obama to fail in this plan because its wrong for the country. I care about the country...I could care less about any of the politicians; GOP or Dems. I love the country...not our king. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #65 October 8, 2009 Quote Its not up to me to find a solution although I can think of some. I owe you nothing. Well, if you only capable to finding flaws in everything, and cannot come up with anything yourself, then I'd afraid your opinion is kinda worthless. There is no, and never will be a perfect law or perfect society institution, and all of them will have flaws. Quote Its INSANE for government to expand a program where there is massive fraud without fixing/improving it. BEFORE we expand government role in health care the government should prove they can prevent fraud and abuse. So could you please enlighten us with your infinite wisdom by telling us how checking immigrant IDs (again, see the topic title) would prevent this kind of fraud? Quote Some suggestions...greater penalties for those convcted, special task force of investigators and prosecutors, and improving technology. I hope you understand that what you suggested is not unique in any possible way, and of course it will not fix anything. Read more about how the type of fraud you just described works, and you'll see why.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #66 October 8, 2009 Quote What is wrong with: - Tort reform Depends on reform. My main concern is that even after the reform the insurers will not lower the cost for doctor malpractice policies. Why should they, it's not like they're in the business of lowering the healthcare costs for the public. Another concern is recent case in Russia, where a man shooted a bunch of people, including the doctor who didn't save his daughter from overdose, and a police officer who provided cover for drug dealers - together with a drug dealer. This guy has been found not guilty at least twice by jury, both times the verdict was overturned by Supreme Court, and this time they want to trial him without jury (which is against the law, so I wonder how exactly would they do it - no doubt they will). The case, however, is that the guy who lost his daughter basically had no other remedies besides just getting a gun and shooting the doctor - and it is questionable whether there was any doctor's fault at all. Maybe if he had an option to sue the doctor, he'd unlikely go this way, and somehow I think the doctor would prefer to pay more for the policy than being shot. Quote - eliminating state mandates and allowing insurance to be bought accross state lines. The bill does all it can by maintaining minimum insurance plan requirements, and providing public option. The rest is up to the states - unless, of course, you're in favor of giving even more power to federal government. Quote - reasonable regulation to stop insurance companies from dropping customers who get sick. This is done already in most states if the person maintains coverage. The problem comes when the person drops coverage for some reasons. Quote - expand medicaid for legal residents who meet certain criteria. Already done at least in California. No idea what kind of criteria they have though. Quote - aggressive prosecution of intentional cheaters; jail time for fraud. This gonna be hard. I'd speculate billing for procedures not performed (and not billing for those performed) occasionally happens in every medical office. Humans make mistakes, and part of this prosecution task force would be wasted on those mistakes. For the real fraudsters, the main problem may be that there is nobody to prosecute - a shell company, which has no money in the bank, and is registered to an alcoholic. The real owner may be as well outside the country, which makes it even more difficult and money-consuming. Now, jail time - I just read that keeping one prisoner in jail costs the taxpayers something like 40K a year, and this means that if the person steals less than 40K a year, it's cheaper to just keep them out of jail, direct savings. Quote - tax deductability of medical expenses and insurance. They are deductible through HSA. Quote All of this can be done in 20 pages or so without all the hidden benefits for special interests. Can be done without another government takeover And now guess what would be the chance your bill would pass without those "special interests", like excluding those who believe in crap like "faith healing"? Zero.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dsandreas 0 #67 October 9, 2009 Read and learn..... - Insurance premiums are not tax deductible. - An individual wanting to buy insurance has no HSA. - CA is broke. Check the news. - Tort reform works in states where it is tried. Doesn't matter what you think...the facts are in. - I have NO desire for the feds to determine coverage. Let the insurance companies offer a wide variety. - Read "intentional" cheaters; there are those caught committing fraud on purpose, not an office mistake. Jail is a deterrent to stop others, not about the cost for one crime. - If a person wants to drop their coverage, this used to be a free country. - This is not Russia; personally I like it that way. - Government run insurance is worse everywhere than the free market here. - Polls show 30% of Mexican citizens would like to live in the US. We don't need another magnet. - If you want a check, get a job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #68 October 9, 2009 Quote - Insurance premiums are not tax deductible. Mine are. No idea why yours aren't Quote - An individual wanting to buy insurance has no HSA. Opening an HSA account takes a few minutes and is free. Quote - CA is broke. Check the news. So what? Quote - Tort reform works in states where it is tried. Doesn't matter what you think...the facts are in. So show us the facts? Quote - I have NO desire for the feds to determine coverage. Let the insurance companies offer a wide variety. So what's the problem? Get the insurance from private company, and you'll have it. Quote - Read "intentional" cheaters; there are those caught committing fraud on purpose, not an office mistake. Jail is a deterrent to stop others, not about the cost for one crime. You cannot have investigators to catch only intended cheaters. A lot of work needs to be done before they can understand it was just a mistake, and not cheating. At this moment efforts are already wasted. Quote - If a person wants to drop their coverage, this used to be a free country. It also used to be that nobody was required to treat this person for free either. Quote - Government run insurance is worse everywhere than the free market here. Define "worse". Quote - Polls show 30% of Mexican citizens would like to live in the US. We don't need another magnet. What are you talking about? They can already get free healthcare in ER. Quote- If you want a check, get a job. I have a job. I just don't need your prayers.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
dsandreas 0 #64 October 8, 2009 p.s....of course I want Obama to fail in this plan because its wrong for the country. I care about the country...I could care less about any of the politicians; GOP or Dems. I love the country...not our king. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #65 October 8, 2009 Quote Its not up to me to find a solution although I can think of some. I owe you nothing. Well, if you only capable to finding flaws in everything, and cannot come up with anything yourself, then I'd afraid your opinion is kinda worthless. There is no, and never will be a perfect law or perfect society institution, and all of them will have flaws. Quote Its INSANE for government to expand a program where there is massive fraud without fixing/improving it. BEFORE we expand government role in health care the government should prove they can prevent fraud and abuse. So could you please enlighten us with your infinite wisdom by telling us how checking immigrant IDs (again, see the topic title) would prevent this kind of fraud? Quote Some suggestions...greater penalties for those convcted, special task force of investigators and prosecutors, and improving technology. I hope you understand that what you suggested is not unique in any possible way, and of course it will not fix anything. Read more about how the type of fraud you just described works, and you'll see why.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #66 October 8, 2009 Quote What is wrong with: - Tort reform Depends on reform. My main concern is that even after the reform the insurers will not lower the cost for doctor malpractice policies. Why should they, it's not like they're in the business of lowering the healthcare costs for the public. Another concern is recent case in Russia, where a man shooted a bunch of people, including the doctor who didn't save his daughter from overdose, and a police officer who provided cover for drug dealers - together with a drug dealer. This guy has been found not guilty at least twice by jury, both times the verdict was overturned by Supreme Court, and this time they want to trial him without jury (which is against the law, so I wonder how exactly would they do it - no doubt they will). The case, however, is that the guy who lost his daughter basically had no other remedies besides just getting a gun and shooting the doctor - and it is questionable whether there was any doctor's fault at all. Maybe if he had an option to sue the doctor, he'd unlikely go this way, and somehow I think the doctor would prefer to pay more for the policy than being shot. Quote - eliminating state mandates and allowing insurance to be bought accross state lines. The bill does all it can by maintaining minimum insurance plan requirements, and providing public option. The rest is up to the states - unless, of course, you're in favor of giving even more power to federal government. Quote - reasonable regulation to stop insurance companies from dropping customers who get sick. This is done already in most states if the person maintains coverage. The problem comes when the person drops coverage for some reasons. Quote - expand medicaid for legal residents who meet certain criteria. Already done at least in California. No idea what kind of criteria they have though. Quote - aggressive prosecution of intentional cheaters; jail time for fraud. This gonna be hard. I'd speculate billing for procedures not performed (and not billing for those performed) occasionally happens in every medical office. Humans make mistakes, and part of this prosecution task force would be wasted on those mistakes. For the real fraudsters, the main problem may be that there is nobody to prosecute - a shell company, which has no money in the bank, and is registered to an alcoholic. The real owner may be as well outside the country, which makes it even more difficult and money-consuming. Now, jail time - I just read that keeping one prisoner in jail costs the taxpayers something like 40K a year, and this means that if the person steals less than 40K a year, it's cheaper to just keep them out of jail, direct savings. Quote - tax deductability of medical expenses and insurance. They are deductible through HSA. Quote All of this can be done in 20 pages or so without all the hidden benefits for special interests. Can be done without another government takeover And now guess what would be the chance your bill would pass without those "special interests", like excluding those who believe in crap like "faith healing"? Zero.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dsandreas 0 #67 October 9, 2009 Read and learn..... - Insurance premiums are not tax deductible. - An individual wanting to buy insurance has no HSA. - CA is broke. Check the news. - Tort reform works in states where it is tried. Doesn't matter what you think...the facts are in. - I have NO desire for the feds to determine coverage. Let the insurance companies offer a wide variety. - Read "intentional" cheaters; there are those caught committing fraud on purpose, not an office mistake. Jail is a deterrent to stop others, not about the cost for one crime. - If a person wants to drop their coverage, this used to be a free country. - This is not Russia; personally I like it that way. - Government run insurance is worse everywhere than the free market here. - Polls show 30% of Mexican citizens would like to live in the US. We don't need another magnet. - If you want a check, get a job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #68 October 9, 2009 Quote - Insurance premiums are not tax deductible. Mine are. No idea why yours aren't Quote - An individual wanting to buy insurance has no HSA. Opening an HSA account takes a few minutes and is free. Quote - CA is broke. Check the news. So what? Quote - Tort reform works in states where it is tried. Doesn't matter what you think...the facts are in. So show us the facts? Quote - I have NO desire for the feds to determine coverage. Let the insurance companies offer a wide variety. So what's the problem? Get the insurance from private company, and you'll have it. Quote - Read "intentional" cheaters; there are those caught committing fraud on purpose, not an office mistake. Jail is a deterrent to stop others, not about the cost for one crime. You cannot have investigators to catch only intended cheaters. A lot of work needs to be done before they can understand it was just a mistake, and not cheating. At this moment efforts are already wasted. Quote - If a person wants to drop their coverage, this used to be a free country. It also used to be that nobody was required to treat this person for free either. Quote - Government run insurance is worse everywhere than the free market here. Define "worse". Quote - Polls show 30% of Mexican citizens would like to live in the US. We don't need another magnet. What are you talking about? They can already get free healthcare in ER. Quote- If you want a check, get a job. I have a job. I just don't need your prayers.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
