The Cost of America's Gun Addiction

[Ion01 2]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig7/lemieux1.html
Statistics indicate gun control increases crime.

[DeathByCactus 0]

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I agree totally ... we need a “SAFE ZONE” … a place with ABSLOUTE ZERO TOLLERANCE for weapons of ANY kind ... where the POLICE have ABSLOUTE POWER of SEARCH & SESIURE ... I know I would feel a lot SAFER then.


I have signs on my lawn declaring a firearmfree zone . Anyone on my property,including police and federal agents,must disarm or be considered a threat to my safety.
I will preemptively shoot any one carrying firearms onto my property.
Preemptive action has legal precedent if you consider the war in Iraq legal.

Blues,
Cliff

This is a joke right? Firearmfree zones = Victim zones, like my college campus is a victim zone. More importantly, police and federal agents would destroy you if you attempted to do as you say. If you lived you would be imprisoned. You can't just go around shooting people you don't like or who are not threatening you. I live in Texas, I can shoot and kill someone for stealing property here... Not that I would, but what you are suggesting is absurd.

I wonder what the nationwide death rate would reach if the US government ever tried to confiscate firearms.

Aspiring flying squirrel / Jump student

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[steve1 5]

Murder rates in the US doubled between 1960 and 1976, the year of the first violent video game. Murder rates continued to increase at a much slower rate until it maxed out in 1993. In 1994 the first first person shooter video game called Doom was released. Since then we have seen murder rates consistently decline while video games continued to get increasingly more realistic, immersive, and violent.

[steve1 5]

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Murder rates in the US doubled between 1960 and 1976, the year of the first violent video game. Murder rates continued to increase at a much slower rate until it maxed out in 1993. In 1994 the first first person shooter video game called Doom was released. Since then we have seen murder rates consistently decline while video games continued to get increasingly more realistic, immersive, and violent.

Yes, it's quite clear that there is absolutely no link at all between TV/computer violence and violence in the real world. Sorry, Steve, your vision is false. The majority of violence continues to be felons killing felons.

I need to see stronger evidence that this to convince me otherwise. The problem is it is hard to do exact research on this sort of thing. What did it take thirty years before we had conclusive evidence that smoking causes cancer and other problems.

I think anyone who has any common sense can put two and two together and figure out if a kid watches little else but violence it is going to have an impact on his behavior.

[downwardspiral 0]

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Murder rates in the US doubled between 1960 and 1976, the year of the first violent video game. Murder rates continued to increase at a much slower rate until it maxed out in 1993. In 1994 the first first person shooter video game called Doom was released. Since then we have seen murder rates consistently decline while video games continued to get increasingly more realistic, immersive, and violent.

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Couldn't that change have something to do with other factors. Do these statistics really mean anything at all? Are you saying we need more violent video games and then violence will decrease?

I think there are flimsy statics out there to prove about anything.

[Rstanley0312 1]

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careful with that spoon...

If you don't like the spoon comparison which is a valid one how about a knife. How many murders are comitted using a knife as the TOOL? Did the knife do it or did a person do it? Are we to band all knives? Rest assured if a person wants to kill someone either methodically or in the heat of passion a knife can do the trick just as well and most likely that person who is responsible for the murder (not the object he/she uses in the act) will pull it off with or without a gun. Come to think of it there are a lot of things around my house that are every day items that are used in murders all of the time. Nobody here is trying to say a spoon is comparable to a gun but they are saying blaming the gun is as crazy as comparing a gun to a spoon.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[dreamdancer 0]

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i suggest that suggesting i am wilfully [SIC] ignorant and unreasonably prejudiced is very silly coming from someone who thinks a gun is a spoon...

What is ignorant is how you think we are saying a gun is a spoon. No one EVER said that. We did say they are both TOOLS. And that the tool is not responsible for the act.

You want to blame the tool (guns) for the act (killing). Therefore you must accept that the tool (spoons) are responsible for the act (over eating).

And your being unreasonably prejudiced is clear.

first:

wilfully adverb

US usually willfully

Some basic safety rules were wilfully ignored.

second:

the thread title is about addiction to guns - and four guns to every citizen counts as addicted (and very, very scared)...

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[kelpdiver 2]

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Murder rates in the US doubled between 1960 and 1976, the year of the first violent video game. Murder rates continued to increase at a much slower rate until it maxed out in 1993. In 1994 the first first person shooter video game called Doom was released. Since then we have seen murder rates consistently decline while video games continued to get increasingly more realistic, immersive, and violent.

Yes, it's quite clear that there is absolutely no link at all between TV/computer violence and violence in the real world. Sorry, Steve, your vision is false. The majority of violence continues to be felons killing felons.

I need to see stronger evidence that this to convince me otherwise. The problem is it is hard to do exact research on this sort of thing. What did it take thirty years before we had conclusive evidence that smoking causes cancer and other problems.

I think anyone who has any common sense can put two and two together and figure out if a kid watches little else but violence it is going to have an impact on his behavior.

You can believe whatever you want, but I don't need to convince you against falsehoods you hold without any evidence to support them. Only in a stupid world does "common sense" outweigh actual evidence.

I'll put it differently. The 'violent' movies and TV in America don't come remotely close to the sort of movies that John Woo was making when he was still in Hong Kong. See the closing sequence of A Better Tomorrow (I or II) for an example. Yet HK has one of the lowest homicide rates in the world.

Wolf 3D came in 1992 and Doom a year later. This followed the Mortal Combat video games in the mid 80s. After came the hyper realistic team combat games. We're getting pretty close to 30 years of these, but are we seeing a surge in violence in America? No.

[dreamdancer 0]

i remember doom - got addicted to that for several weeks...

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[Nightingale 0]

Have you ever fired a gun?
Have you ever stripped and cleaned a modern firearm?
Do you understand how safeties work?

[kelpdiver 2]

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Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century
because of gun control: 56 million.

It's a gross simplification to attribute these deaths to gun control. For example, the China that implemented gun control in 1935 (Chang Kai Shek) was entirely different from the China (Mao) that took over after world war 2 and did some 'housecleaning' as part of the revolution. Similar events took place in Russia with a paranoid Stalin, and Cambodia. As for the Nazis - even armed nations didn't stand up well to the blitzkrieg. 3 million of those killed were Polish Jews, so gun control can't be blamed for their deaths. You'd be more accurate to blame Neil Chamberlain

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During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew
most Americans were ARMED!

Japan invading America makes as much sense as America trying to invade China. Us being armed is practically besides the point. It's much easier to overrun a small island than a 3000 mile land mass with millions of people to secure.

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Note: I didnt' check the figures above as this was just c/p from an email... but I think the point is well made regardless of the technical accuracy ...

We like to think we have some standards at SC with regards to academic honesty.

[Ion01 2]

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Murder rates in the US doubled between 1960 and 1976, the year of the first violent video game. Murder rates continued to increase at a much slower rate until it maxed out in 1993. In 1994 the first first person shooter video game called Doom was released. Since then we have seen murder rates consistently decline while video games continued to get increasingly more realistic, immersive, and violent.

Yes, it's quite clear that there is absolutely no link at all between TV/computer violence and violence in the real world. Sorry, Steve, your vision is false. The majority of violence continues to be felons killing felons.

I need to see stronger evidence that this to convince me otherwise. The problem is it is hard to do exact research on this sort of thing. What did it take thirty years before we had conclusive evidence that smoking causes cancer and other problems.

I think anyone who has any common sense can put two and two together and figure out if a kid watches little else but violence it is going to have an impact on his behavior.

Anyone can put two and two together and realize that if a kid has uninvolved parents and they only get attention when they do violent things, such and beat up kids at school, and even then the parents will defend their kid, you have a violent kid! The reality is even if video games make kids violent its not the video games fault but the parent for buying it or not making sure the kid understands the difference between it and real life or just being a bad parent. That is the root at which it begins. Otherwise there would be not violent people until video games came along.....which obviously isn't true.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Anyone can put two and two together and realize that if a kid has uninvolved parents and they only get attention when they do violent things, such and beat up kids at school, and even then the parents will defend their kid, you have a violent kid! The reality is even if video games make kids violent its not the video games fault but the parent for buying it or not making sure the kid understands the difference between it and real life or just being a bad parent. That is the root at which it begins. Otherwise there would be not violent people until video games came along.....which obviously isn't true.

Given how many of us in the past few decades grew up as latchkey kids, it's clear that it takes more than Doom and parental neglect to turn out a violent person.

[downwardspiral 0]

To be fair...there have been studies showing an increased aggression level in children after playing violent video games. So it is an excellent idea to closely monitor what children play and to limit their availability to children through the ESRB ratings. However, to make the jump from increased aggression levels to causation for murder is reaching at best.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[Ron 10]

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US usually willfully

When you use "usually" you can't mean "all"

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Some basic safety rules were wilfully ignored.

I guess you are talking about all those that over eat.... Yes, some basic safety rules were ignored. You want to blame the spoon, I want to blame the actions.

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the thread title is about addiction to guns - and four guns to every citizen counts as addicted (and very, very scared)...

Nonsense... You want to get technical and use definitions?

Addiction: compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal; broadly : persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful

Guns are not a habit forming substance.

Addiction: the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma.

Guns are not habit forming.

Basically, you have no idea what you are talking about.

AND you continue to blame an OBJECT for the actions of a person.

If guns kill people, then spoons make people fat.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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It's a gross simplification to attribute these deaths to gun control.

Maybe, but all of those mass exterminations were preceded with laws that took guns away from the people they later killed.

The laws adopted by the Weimar Republic intended to disarm Nazis and Communists were sufficiently discretionary that the Nazis managed to use them against their enemies once they were in power and the Nazi's passed a gun law in 1938 that made it illegal for Jews and "Non-Citizens" to own firearms.

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It's much easier to overrun a small island than a 3000 mile land mass with millions of people to secure.

Yes, but the words of the possible attackers should be considered:

Early in World War II, Japan considered invading the mainland of the United States. Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, commander in chief of the Japanese naval forces and architect of the Pearl Harbor bombing, advised against invading. Twenty years prior, Admiral Yamamoto had spent a few years in the United States studying at Harvard University. Based on his experience with American culture, Admiral Yamamoto reportedly told his government, “I would never invade the United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.”

If guns are not a deterrent to crime.... Then why don't armed cops get mugged?

If guns cause shootings... Then why don't we have killing sprees at gun shows?

Guns are a tool... That's it. Guns can be used for good, or bad. But the action is from the PERSON, not the tool.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[dreamdancer 0]

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Guns are not habit forming.

what about spoons? i know many people who habitually use one to eat...

(spoons that is - not guns if you're still confused)

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[Ion01 2]

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Anyone can put two and two together and realize that if a kid has uninvolved parents and they only get attention when they do violent things, such and beat up kids at school, and even then the parents will defend their kid, you have a violent kid! The reality is even if video games make kids violent its not the video games fault but the parent for buying it or not making sure the kid understands the difference between it and real life or just being a bad parent. That is the root at which it begins. Otherwise there would be not violent people until video games came along.....which obviously isn't true.

Given how many of us in the past few decades grew up as latchkey kids, it's clear that it takes more than Doom and parental neglect to turn out a violent person.

I agree completely! Following this same train of thought you have to consider how many kids play violent video games and didn't become violent as well.

[steve1 5]

Given how many of us in the past few decades grew up as latchkey kids, it's clear that it takes more than Doom and parental neglect to turn out a violent person.

[Ron 10]

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what about spoons? i know many people who habitually use one to eat...

And I bet if you took away all their spoons, that they would still eat.

Proving once again that it is not the tool, but the persons ACTIONS that need to be dealt with.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[steve1 5]

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You can believe whatever you want, but I don't need to convince you against falsehoods you hold without any evidence to support them. Only in a stupid world does "common sense" outweigh actual evidence.

I'll put it differently. The 'violent' movies and TV in America don't come remotely close to the sort of movies that John Woo was making when he was still in Hong Kong. See the closing sequence of A Better Tomorrow (I or II) for an example. Yet HK has one of the lowest homicide rates in the world.

Wolf 3D came in 1992 and Doom a year later. This followed the Mortal Combat video games in the mid 80s. After came the hyper realistic team combat games. We're getting pretty close to 30 years of these, but are we seeing a surge in violence in America? No.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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And I bet if you took away all their spoons, that they would still eat.

I like that one.

Spoons are for eating.
Guns are for shooting.

take away all the spoons, people will still eat.
take away all the guns, people will still.....shoot?

[Ron 10]

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I like that one.

Spoons are for eating.
Guns are for shooting.

take away all the spoons, people will still eat.
take away all the guns, people will still.....shoot?

Shooting is not the problem. Violence is.

Take away all the spoons, people will still eat.
Take away all the guns, people will still be violent.

Besides, it has been proven that you cannot take away all of anything. Coke is illegal, yet you can get it. Some Country's have banned guns, yet they still have gun crime.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Rstanley0312 1]

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And I bet if you took away all their spoons, that they would still eat.

I like that one.

Spoons are for eating.
Guns are for shooting.

take away all the spoons, people will still eat.
take away all the guns, people will still.....shoot?

people will still...... kill! YUP

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[Rstanley0312 1]

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Guns are not habit forming.

what about spoons? i know many people who habitually use one to eat...

(spoons that is - not guns if you're still confused)

Now you are being silly.... see my post before I wrote to you. You know the point is valid and you know noone is directly saying a spoon is a gun but the point being made is very valid.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com