futuredivot 0 #76 September 30, 2009 QuoteHe took the law into his own hands, tracked the guy down and dealt a punishment. That is the definition of a real man.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #77 September 30, 2009 Quote Quote Two sides resolved a situation without resorting to violence, passing any noticable expense to society, or causing physical harm. Sounds like maturity to me. I still think that whenever possible people should solve their own problems and not be such tit fed pussies that some authority has to constantly play big brother. Looking at it like that would mean that the VFW effectively sold the rights to burn their flag one time, and there was no vandalism. If any ordinances were violated due to the actual fire, the VFW commander was an accomplice. No matter how you look at it, the VFW post commander showed a lack of respect for the rule of law, not maturity. I just remembered you are a lawyer. Now our conversation about honesty and society makes perfect sense! www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #78 September 30, 2009 That's pretty fucking skewed. So, you never feel the need to remove your tampon, man up, and take care of business?You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #79 September 30, 2009 QuoteI just remembered you are a lawyer. Try again. Just because I'm not totally ignorant of the law does not imply that I'm a lawyer.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #80 September 30, 2009 QuoteThat's pretty fucking skewed. So, you never feel the need to remove your tampon, man up, and take care of business? Vigilantes tend to be cowards, IMO. The VFW post commander did nothing worthy of respect.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #81 September 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteI just remembered you are a lawyer. Try again. Just because I'm not totally ignorant of the law does not imply that I'm a lawyer. Ah then I got you mixed up with some other member who's login starts with a j.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #82 September 30, 2009 By Quade's rather broad definition, anyone that doesn't cower behind the skirts is a vigilante. But, what do you base your "coward" opinion on? In my eyes, the commander acted with honor and compassion and is very worthy of respect. I like it when people quit sitting around whining "Somebody should do something" and get up and go do something. Accountability. Hold yourself and others accountable.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #83 September 30, 2009 QuoteAccountability. Hold yourself and others accountable. Really? How would you feel if the local police charged VFW guy with a crime? Is that accountability or is just situational? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #84 September 30, 2009 I'd feel that the situation would be best resolved without that level of attention-just like I do now.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #85 September 30, 2009 QuoteHold yourself and others accountable. That's exactly what the post commander failed to do, hold himself accountable. He wanted vengeance, not justice. If our justice system is one of the important aspects of our government that makes our country great, how can a veteran who bypasses that justice system to avenge an act of free expression be respected? He acted cowardly.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #86 September 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteThis incident proves your statement to be false. Your statement is predicated on the assumption that a law was broken and or that it involves violence. There is nothing to indicate that the VFW Commander broke any laws or used violence to get the one person who did break a law to agree to be taped to the flag pole. You can sit there and pound your hand on the table and demand the hard line of the law wasn't broken, hence no crime. We don't have witness statements here and can't see any evidence but that of which was given by the flag owner. Truth of the matter is, base dupon what we all know, the flag burner could be cited and arrested for at least: - vandalism - disorderly conduct - endangerment - open fire w/o a permit (or something to that effect) The flag owner could be cited and arrested for at least: - wrongful detention - possibly kidnapping - endangerment Even if all partoes agreed to what happened, the taped individual was placed in danger for 6 hours, so the alleged agreement does not absolve anyone on either side. Remember, it was a crime against teh state on both ends. You would have a valid point if you weren't wrong. Case in point: - wrongful detention: The guy agreed to it - possibly kidnapping: The guy agreed to it. We could argue all day about why the guy agreed to it but both sides would be making suppositions at best. Bottom line, the guy agreed to do it, isn't complaining about it now that he isn't taped to the flag pole. So logic dictates that he agreed to it and is fine with that decision. - endangerment: This guy wasn't in any danger. You can come up with some BS about how he was endangered but the facts are no one was beating this guy or threatening to beat him while he was taped up and the VFW Commander even insisted he remain anonymous to prevent him from any retribution. QuoteQuoteI think they probably handled it like gentlemen and the VFW Commander gave the guy two options, one more than likely involved the Police and the other was being taped to the flag pole. I see, so my assumptions are all fucked up, but we should rally around your, "I think..." Truth is that a number of obvious crimes took place, they could both be arrested. Volunteering, as the flag owner states, doesn't mean he would have wanted to and it doesn't mean the burner wasn't placed in danger, he was. Yes, your assumptions are fucked up. I say that because you state that the individual was in danger and the video and actions made by the VFW Commander indicate that he was not placed in danger then or afterwards. QuoteQuoteThe fact that the VFW Commander wants the mans identity to remain anonymous is a good indicator that the two probably came to an agreement in a civil manner. So now we have to accept your, "probably" as well? You apparently think the world of your views, everyone else's are just wrong. How about this, the flag owner may want to limit his liability, civilly and criminally by keeping the man's identity unknown. No, you don't have to accept anything, thats your choice. It still doesn't prove any of what you claim happened is valid. I highly doubt that the VFW Commander is worried about his liability, he is concerned that someone would be less forgiving than he was. This incident is a classic example of old school conflict resolution that didn't require the use of violence and both parties feel that the end result is acceptable in lieu of the alternative. I don't think there are any ideologies or related items driving this, it's just a simple case of a dumb ass drunk making a mistake while inebriated, realizing his mistake once sober and taking responsibility for his actions afterwards."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites futuredivot 0 #87 September 30, 2009 You got your ice cream money taken away a lot, didn't you. I can't imagine that you would look him in the eye and tell him what a coward he was. I feel that there was more justice at that pole than there would have been in a system.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #88 September 30, 2009 QuoteI'd feel that the situation would be best resolved without that level of attention-just like I do now. Exactly what level of attention would you expect if you duct tape someone to a flag pole with a sign around his neck in full view of the public for six hours? I would expect exactly what happened. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #89 September 30, 2009 QuoteYou would have a valid point if you weren't wrong. Case in point: - wrongful detention: The guy agreed to it - possibly kidnapping: The guy agreed to it. We could argue all day about why the guy agreed to it but both sides would be making suppositions at best. Bottom line, the guy agreed to do it, isn't complaining about it now that he isn't taped to the flag pole. So logic dictates that he agreed to it and is fine with that decision. I believe that all depends on when and where the agreement was made and whether or not the vandal was forced to entertain his options or had the ability to walk away from "negotiations." The video doesn't provide such information, so we cannot make the assumption that the post commander didn't commit any crime during his plea negotiations with the vandal. It is clear from the video that the post commander acted as a vigilante, bypassing the legitimate justice system.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites futuredivot 0 #90 September 30, 2009 Sorry, I meant police, authority, charges level of attention. I would expect people to say-well, seems fair enough and go about their day. Where I'm from, I'd expect arson boy's mom to be waiting when he was cut free to beat his ass for being an emabarrassment to the family.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #91 September 30, 2009 QuoteYou got your ice cream money taken away a lot, didn't you. I can't imagine that you would look him in the eye and tell him what a coward he was. I feel that there was more justice at that pole than there would have been in a system. I love how you resort to personal attacks when unable to make logical arguments. It offers much insight into your character.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites futuredivot 0 #92 September 30, 2009 QuoteIt is clear from the video that the post commander acted as a negotiator, arriving at a mutually agreeable resolution.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #93 September 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteIt is clear from the video that the post commander acted as a negotiator, arriving at a mutually agreeable resolution. The courts must approve plea agreements. He acted as a vigilante.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #94 September 30, 2009 QuoteSorry, I meant police, authority, charges level of attention. I would expect people to say-well, seems fair enough and go about their day. Where I'm from, I'd expect arson boy's mom to be waiting when he was cut free to beat his ass for being an emabarrassment to the family. When you do things in full view of the public you absolutely have to expect public scrutiny. What are the police to do if they ignore this and then are accused of not doing their job? FWIW - I don't disagree with VFW guy that something should have been done and it's great that it was handled without the police in a manner that both parties agreed to, but holy shit those guys are both idiots. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites futuredivot 0 #95 September 30, 2009 QuoteI love how you resort to personal attacks Son, that was just a theory based on observation-my attacks are brutal and unquestionably across the line. But hey-report me to some authority figure or threaten legal action or pick any of another dozen ways to throw your virtual chest out.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #96 September 30, 2009 Quote>come on man...I know you're smarter that this- sell it to me. nope - flag burning, 'shock' 'art', violent protests, flinging pee bags, etc are all abuses of reasonable discuss and healthy speech - they are the outlets for idiots, the lazy, and the poorly informed - the disrespectful especially when it involves the damage or destruction of someone else's property in short - I believe all works of this kind have little to do with any real 'causes' and more to do with getting away with the childish act ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #97 September 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteYou would have a valid point if you weren't wrong. Case in point: - wrongful detention: The guy agreed to it - possibly kidnapping: The guy agreed to it. We could argue all day about why the guy agreed to it but both sides would be making suppositions at best. Bottom line, the guy agreed to do it, isn't complaining about it now that he isn't taped to the flag pole. So logic dictates that he agreed to it and is fine with that decision. I believe that all depends on when and where the agreement was made and whether or not the vandal was forced to entertain his options or had the ability to walk away from "negotiations." The video doesn't provide such information, so we cannot make the assumption that the post commander didn't commit any crime during his plea negotiations with the vandal. It is clear from the video that the post commander acted as a vigilante, bypassing the legitimate justice system. Please re-read the last two sentences of my post that you quoted, as it will address your rebuttal. I've bolded the point that negates your statement about "negotiations" and possibilities that a crime was committed by the VFW commander. QuoteBottom line, the guy agreed to do it, isn't complaining about it now that he isn't taped to the flag pole. So logic dictates that he agreed to it and is fine with that decision."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites futuredivot 0 #98 September 30, 2009 Quote[agreeable resolution. The courts must approve plea agreements. Where did I say plea? I said resolution. Two people able to solve a problem without hand holding-geesh, skippy.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #87 September 30, 2009 You got your ice cream money taken away a lot, didn't you. I can't imagine that you would look him in the eye and tell him what a coward he was. I feel that there was more justice at that pole than there would have been in a system.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #88 September 30, 2009 QuoteI'd feel that the situation would be best resolved without that level of attention-just like I do now. Exactly what level of attention would you expect if you duct tape someone to a flag pole with a sign around his neck in full view of the public for six hours? I would expect exactly what happened. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #89 September 30, 2009 QuoteYou would have a valid point if you weren't wrong. Case in point: - wrongful detention: The guy agreed to it - possibly kidnapping: The guy agreed to it. We could argue all day about why the guy agreed to it but both sides would be making suppositions at best. Bottom line, the guy agreed to do it, isn't complaining about it now that he isn't taped to the flag pole. So logic dictates that he agreed to it and is fine with that decision. I believe that all depends on when and where the agreement was made and whether or not the vandal was forced to entertain his options or had the ability to walk away from "negotiations." The video doesn't provide such information, so we cannot make the assumption that the post commander didn't commit any crime during his plea negotiations with the vandal. It is clear from the video that the post commander acted as a vigilante, bypassing the legitimate justice system.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #90 September 30, 2009 Sorry, I meant police, authority, charges level of attention. I would expect people to say-well, seems fair enough and go about their day. Where I'm from, I'd expect arson boy's mom to be waiting when he was cut free to beat his ass for being an emabarrassment to the family.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #91 September 30, 2009 QuoteYou got your ice cream money taken away a lot, didn't you. I can't imagine that you would look him in the eye and tell him what a coward he was. I feel that there was more justice at that pole than there would have been in a system. I love how you resort to personal attacks when unable to make logical arguments. It offers much insight into your character.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #92 September 30, 2009 QuoteIt is clear from the video that the post commander acted as a negotiator, arriving at a mutually agreeable resolution.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #93 September 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteIt is clear from the video that the post commander acted as a negotiator, arriving at a mutually agreeable resolution. The courts must approve plea agreements. He acted as a vigilante.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #94 September 30, 2009 QuoteSorry, I meant police, authority, charges level of attention. I would expect people to say-well, seems fair enough and go about their day. Where I'm from, I'd expect arson boy's mom to be waiting when he was cut free to beat his ass for being an emabarrassment to the family. When you do things in full view of the public you absolutely have to expect public scrutiny. What are the police to do if they ignore this and then are accused of not doing their job? FWIW - I don't disagree with VFW guy that something should have been done and it's great that it was handled without the police in a manner that both parties agreed to, but holy shit those guys are both idiots. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #95 September 30, 2009 QuoteI love how you resort to personal attacks Son, that was just a theory based on observation-my attacks are brutal and unquestionably across the line. But hey-report me to some authority figure or threaten legal action or pick any of another dozen ways to throw your virtual chest out.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #96 September 30, 2009 Quote>come on man...I know you're smarter that this- sell it to me. nope - flag burning, 'shock' 'art', violent protests, flinging pee bags, etc are all abuses of reasonable discuss and healthy speech - they are the outlets for idiots, the lazy, and the poorly informed - the disrespectful especially when it involves the damage or destruction of someone else's property in short - I believe all works of this kind have little to do with any real 'causes' and more to do with getting away with the childish act ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #97 September 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteYou would have a valid point if you weren't wrong. Case in point: - wrongful detention: The guy agreed to it - possibly kidnapping: The guy agreed to it. We could argue all day about why the guy agreed to it but both sides would be making suppositions at best. Bottom line, the guy agreed to do it, isn't complaining about it now that he isn't taped to the flag pole. So logic dictates that he agreed to it and is fine with that decision. I believe that all depends on when and where the agreement was made and whether or not the vandal was forced to entertain his options or had the ability to walk away from "negotiations." The video doesn't provide such information, so we cannot make the assumption that the post commander didn't commit any crime during his plea negotiations with the vandal. It is clear from the video that the post commander acted as a vigilante, bypassing the legitimate justice system. Please re-read the last two sentences of my post that you quoted, as it will address your rebuttal. I've bolded the point that negates your statement about "negotiations" and possibilities that a crime was committed by the VFW commander. QuoteBottom line, the guy agreed to do it, isn't complaining about it now that he isn't taped to the flag pole. So logic dictates that he agreed to it and is fine with that decision."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #98 September 30, 2009 Quote[agreeable resolution. The courts must approve plea agreements. Where did I say plea? I said resolution. Two people able to solve a problem without hand holding-geesh, skippy.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #99 September 30, 2009 Quote But hey-report me to some authority figure or threaten legal action or pick any of another dozen ways to throw your virtual chest out. No thanks. It's easier to simply highlight the inconsistent logic presented in your posts.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #100 September 30, 2009 Quote So logic dictates that he agreed to it and is fine with that decision. For Christ's sake, this is SC. Quit trying to bring logic into it. You will only confuse people. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
