VFW members duct tape flag burner to flag pole

[rushmc 23]

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WHat happened here is classic endangerment

Most of the endangerment laws I've been able to find use the term "substantial risk" The person who chose to be restrained was under observation in a public place. Butterflies flying up his ass causing explosive constipation might be possible, but I don't think it's a "substantial" risk, much like that list of what-if's you're throwing out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reckless_endangerment

In US law, endangerment comprises several types of crimes involving conduct that is wrongful and reckless or wanton, and likely to produce death or grievous bodily harm to another person.

The offense is intended to prohibit and therefore deter reckless or wanton conduct that wrongfully creates a substantial risk of death or serious injury to others.

The law specifies several types of endangerment:

Child endangerment: placing a child in a potentially harmful situation, either through negligence or misconduct.
Reckless endangerment: A person commits the crime of reckless endangerment if the person recklessly engages in conduct which creates a substantial risk of serious physical injury to another person. “Reckless” conduct is conduct that exhibits a culpable disregard of foreseeable consequences to others from the act or omission involved. The accused need not intentionally cause a resulting harm or know that his conduct is substantially certain to cause that result. The ultimate question is whether, under all the circumstances, the accused’s conduct was of that heedless nature that made it actually or imminently dangerous to the rights or safety of others.
Endangerment can range from a misdemeanor to a felony.



It could easily be misdemeanor endangerment.

And even if it couldn't, criminla negligence would be a slam dunk, it's a much lower standard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_negligence


It would depend upon the jury, they are the finder of fact and if they found there was substantial risk they could find for a conviction of reckless endangerment.

I keep thinking of this sad case where a dog was tied up outside as killer bees attacked and killed it, it couldn't get away.

If the taped had asthma that would contribute to endangerment. Also, with 3 options given, this could be kidnapping easily if he felt worried for his safety under coersion. Apparently in Mayberry rednecj RFD this won't be pursued and the cops would arrest the alleged burner anyway and refuse to charge the necks. I guess this is fun logic until it happens to you.

Ah, if you watch the tape is it stated he admitted to burning the flag AND the agreed to being taped to the flag pole.

The end

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[futuredivot 0]

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Love how you're ok with what little we have.

Just as much info as you're using to crucify the VFW commander.

State your resolution to the situation and explain how it's better that the end result achieved.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[futuredivot 0]

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So tell me of your legal experience

Once again, and for the last time. I don't consider it a legal issue. It could have been but the parties involves elected to explore the alternatives. You keep wanting to drag it to court. You do understand that every day people across the world address and resolve conflicts without outside interference? Would you run to your boss if a coworker took your drink out of the office fridge? It's theft, it's a crime-and much better settled between the two of you.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[futuredivot 0]

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walk by and punch him or otherwise abuse him?

In a public place? In a crowd? In broad daylight? Nope. I don't think it would happen.

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as a foreseeable possibility, I think you probably suffer from a lack of imagination.

I'm betting that, unless it's a pretty recent law, the intent of the word foreseeable involves more common sense than imagination. I can imagine alien vampire puppies chewing out his eyeballs but it's not likely.

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people have said the man should have been lit on fire.

And everything you say can be taken literally?

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[Misternatural 0]

>The end
Yep, I live 45 min away- none of this incident escalated into widespread patriotic scrutiny, which I think most of the dissenters of the event really are concerned about at the core.There are always going to be strong patriots and those opposed. Nationalism is still a choice and not a mandate. Life goes on, keep up the good work everyone-
peace out.

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[billvon 3,118]

> However, that doesn't mean people get to duct tape him to a flag pole.

Correct - unless he agrees to it. That's the key here.

If a kid breaks your window, and you tell him "paint my fence or I'm calling the cops" that's perfectly fair, as long as the kid can say no and he doesn't have to teeter on the edge of a cliff to do it. You could come up with some argument based on child labor laws but that would really be stretching things.

Likewise, if someone _wanted_ to be tied up in public for (let's say) some other reason, that's also fine - again, provided what goes on is safe, sane and consensual.

[futuredivot 0]

Be glad I'm not the litigious sort or I'd sue you to replace the keyboard now covered with coffee thanks to you

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[Krip 2]

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The definitions still include "substantial" and "foreseeable"

It could be interpreted as a lot of things but no reasonable person would interpret it as a chargable offense.
IF the taped had asthma, scabies, or the damn clap-he should have picked another option.

If a person is duct taped to a flag pole in front of a VFW hall with a sign around his neck saying he was a flag burner, would it not be "foreseeable" that somebody might walk by and punch him or otherwise abuse him? I'm not saying that's what happened, but if you discount that as a foreseeable possibility, I think you probably suffer from a lack of imagination.

If you've been following the comments on other web sites about this, a surprising number of people have said the man should have been lit on fire.

Hi Q

Comments on other web sights

Could you post some Links

Thank you

One Jump Wonder

[quade 4]

http://www.breitbart.tv/vfw-members-duct-tape-flag-burner-to-pole-in-front-of-kids-soccer-picnic/#comments
http://www.wten.com/Global/story.asp?S=11190850

On the second one you'll need to scroll to the bottom of the page to read the comments.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 4]

Bill, are you actually up to speed on this entire story?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 3,118]

Apparently you think I might not be! What am I missing?

[quade 4]

A couple days worth of back and forth.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Krip 2]

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http://www.breitbart.tv/vfw-members-duct-tape-flag-burner-to-pole-in-front-of-kids-soccer-picnic/#comments
http://www.wten.com/Global/story.asp?S=11190850

On the second one you'll need to scroll to the bottom of the page to read the comments.

Hi Q

Thanks for the link.

For some reason I'm a little surprised at the way the comments in the links mirror the comments in SC. Minus the bickering and local color.

I have the following observations

The story was not well researched and written. Some parts don't make sense. Reads like a reporter writting aboout a skydiving incident

The comments about what goes on at the VFW club and the type of person that burned the flag? Hard to tell whats true.

Due process etc, if the vets action was against the law, fine prosecute them. If the flag burner broke the law fine prosecute him also. These legal actions can still be taken but thats the local DA's call.

This country is facing some serious challenges in the years ahead we need to stop sniping at ea other and pull together.

We need to encourage our gov't to support our newest vets and their families. Some of them are hurting, and are falling thru the holes in the gov't safety net that our taxes are supposed to be paying for. The VA is continueing to drop the ball.

Vets aren't evil some of them just need a helping hand instead of slogans.

One Jump Wonder

[Lucky... 0]

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Love how you're ok with what little we have.

Just as much info as you're using to crucify the VFW commander.

State your resolution to the situation and explain how it's better that the end result achieved.

All we know, based upon what I saw and read is that the VFW individual and his posse taped a guy to the pole after offering him chocies where 2 of which included criminal conduct. Beyond that we have no info, feel free to post. And if someone came by and bashed the taped you wouldn't care, would you?

My resolution before thratening the suspecct would have been to call the cops and sue.

[Lucky... 0]

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Ah, if you watch the tape is it stated he admitted to burning the flag AND the agreed to being taped to the flag pole.

The vid I watched didn't have the tapee say a thing, post a site if you have one. Even if he did admit to it, the actions of approaching him and offering him an asskicking or a ride to the pole is criminal.

[Lucky... 0]

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Once again, and for the last time. I don't consider it a legal issue.

Right, as you like the outcome. But you have no legal understanding, you aren't a prosecutor so you just use old school lynch mob practice. The acts easily fall under a few criminal codes/statute.

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It could have been but the parties involves elected to explore the alternatives

What you're talking about is a resolution / stipulated resolution. But the problem with that is that that is for civil matters, this was a series of criminal acts and all criminal acts are against the state, so a private individual cannot make a deal, so there was no settlement or resolution. You should learn what you can about the system.

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You do understand that every day people across the world address and resolve conflicts without outside interference?

Cicil ones, yes, but when it involves a crime that is off the table.

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Would you run to your boss if a coworker took your drink out of the office fridge? It's theft, it's a crime-and much better settled between the two of you.

Soda theft = kidnapping, threats & intimidation, endangerment, criminal negligence, disorderly conduct. NOW I GET IT

[Lucky... 0]

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> However, that doesn't mean people get to duct tape him to a flag pole.

Correct - unless he agrees to it. That's the key here.

If a kid breaks your window, and you tell him "paint my fence or I'm calling the cops" that's perfectly fair, as long as the kid can say no and he doesn't have to teeter on the edge of a cliff to do it. You could come up with some argument based on child labor laws but that would really be stretching things.

Likewise, if someone _wanted_ to be tied up in public for (let's say) some other reason, that's also fine - again, provided what goes on is safe, sane and consensual.

But if you gave him 3 options where at least 1 was violence against him, all bets are off and this had no mutual agreement.

[billvon 3,118]

>A couple days worth of back and forth.

I read what transpired on here, although that's not in any way equivalent to being "up to speed on the story." I did read a few things outside this website, and it sounds like:

-he did not dispute his vandalism
-he gave consent for how he was treated
-no laws were broken

Unless those basic facts are in error, I don't see much of an issue with it.

[Lucky... 0]

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>A couple days worth of back and forth.

I read what transpired on here, although that's not in any way equivalent to being "up to speed on the story." I did read a few things outside this website, and it sounds like:

-he did not dispute his vandalism
-he gave consent for how he was treated
-no laws were broken

Unless those basic facts are in error, I don't see much of an issue with it.

If man X is beating his wife, the neighbors call, the cops come out and the wife, obviously beaten says not to worry about it, she's ok with it. The cops can and will, based upon their evidence charge and arrest. Crimes are against the state, not the individual.

[futuredivot 0]

Morph much?

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[futuredivot 0]

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My resolution before thratening the suspecct would have been to call the cops and sue.

And that is pretty sad.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[Lucky... 0]

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My resolution before thratening the suspecct would have been to call the cops and sue.

And that is pretty sad.

It's sad that I would call the cops if someone burned my flag, esp a flag with that sentimental value? So putting the shotgun in rack in the back window and gettin' the fellers from the club to lynch the SOB we *think* was responsible and threatening violence is the right thing?

And if he was found guilty I would ask for restitution, if not found guilty and enough evidence existed I would then sue. That's what civilized people do; animals would just act on impulse.

[Lucky... 0]

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Morph much?

Without posting what I wrote it's impossible to answeer. But I guess you don't have a point.

[Misternatural 0]

relax man

I live nearby.....the all clear horn has sounded on this one, the only brown shirts that are going to knock on our door are the UPS dudes...they're cool and they bring boxes of excellent free market produced goods.

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[futuredivot 0]

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Morph much?

Without posting what I wrote it's impossible to answeer. But I guess you don't have a point.

Is the air so thin up on your "I speak for the emasculated masses" soapbox that you can't remember whay you said and put it in proper context?
I'll sue!! I'll tell mommy!! I'll hold my breath!! Just different tantrums from the same 'somebody else take care of me' mindset.

In this situation the victims manned up and took care of things. The perpertrator manned up and took responsibility. I'm glad for both of them.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour