VFW members duct tape flag burner to flag pole

[wayneflorida 0]

Saves on court costs.

http://nocompromisemedia.com/2009/09/29/its-about-time-dude/

[squirrel 0]

good job! we need more people like that. (not the flag burner)

________________________________
Where is Darwin when you need him?

[quade 4]

Yay, vigilante justice?

WTF? Ok, I get it, the guy that lit the flag on fire was an asshole and a law breaker. Sure, no question. However, that doesn't mean people get to duct tape him to a flag pole. That's just freekin' stupid.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[lawrocket 3]

I've learned that, in my experience, you don't mess with old men. "You know, on two years I'm gonna be in a nursing home. Or, I could be in prison. I'll take prison."

They are old and a life sentence doesn't mean much to them. They've spent 65 years holding back memories of hand to hand combat with the Japs at Pelleliu. They've spent 40 years holding back aggression at seeing the offsping of the guys they wish they'd killed in Da Nang when they had a chance every time they go out to get some smokes.

And some peacenik is gonna come out and burn a flag in front of guys that have been saying for decades, "somebody give me a reason..."

Now, it doesn't excuse what they did. But sometimes folks should do risk assessments.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[quade 4]

Thing is, I might be able to chalk it up to a "crime of passion" had the VFW member did it at the moment the guy was burning the flag, but instead, this was a day later. There's simply no way to excuse that. If I was the guy that got duct taped, I'd be filing kidnapping charges and what's even more shameful is there are people, including the news in that town, that are cheering him on.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Quote

Thing is, I might be able to chalk it up to a "crime of passion" had the VFW member did it at the moment the guy was burning the flag, but instead, this was a day later. There's simply no way to excuse that. If I was the guy that got duct taped, I'd be filing kidnapping charges and what's even more shameful is there are people, including the news in that town, that are cheering him on.

The man volunteered to be taped to the pole instead of facing cgarges of vandalism. He cannot press any sort of kidnapping charges against them or charges of any kind.
There is no shame in the way the vets handled it. I know a few who would not have given the man a choice. He should feel very lucky they were as forgiving as they were.
You're wrong on this one, Quade.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[quade 4]

"Volunteered" can be another word for coerced and you, nor the reporter, have the other side of the story to say otherwise. I can forgive you because you don't have the story. I can not forgive the reporter.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[lost_n_confuzd 0]

I agree with the VFW guys. Totally legal, I think. Look at in a way not involving the flag...

-Man vandalises property.

-Owner of property gives him an option of public humiliation for 6 hours or face criminal charges.

-Saves tax payers money.

-Saves the perp from going to jail or paying fines.

-Chances are that the perp learned more of a lesson from this than from what the legal system would have taught him.

On the flag issue, while it shows bad taste and a complete lack of class, everyone has the right to burn any flag they want, even the ole stars and stripes. Just make sure its YOUR flag and not someone elses, you just might get your ass kicked.

I'm a huge 1st Amendment supporter. Funny how those who cry "he burned our flag, hang 'em" don't support the 1st Amendment. Yeah that's real American....err I mean anti-American

[Bolas 5]

There are rational and remorseful people out there who actaually take responsibility for their actions. For those, making everything a legal matter is not necessary.

Had the flag burner decided to go the legal route, he probably would have got a slap on the wrist if that as some lawyer would have argued "impaired condition" and that the history of the flag was "irrelevant" as was unknown to his client.

Perhaps, once he heard the history of the flag, he felt a long drawn out legal trial was not necessary as he was clearly guilty and extremely sorry and really wanted to try to make it up to these veterans,

But you're right. We don't have the full story since the VFW decided to protect the mans identity on the newscast. So we are left to fill in our own blanks.

Some may see it an conspiracy, kidnapping, and extortion, others simply see it as a resolved situation where it's not likely to happen again.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[quade 4]

Quote

-Owner of property gives him an option of public humiliation for 6 hours or face criminal charges.

Except, what if they didn't have the right guy and the wrong guy they caught doesn't want to go to the police for other reasons? Are they allowed to coerce the guy until he agrees to their demands no matter what?

Again, they didn't catch the guy while he was doing it and then detain him for the police, the VFW guy went after him a day later.

Vigilantism is not a good thing and I'm surprised people here are supporting it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

Yay, vigilante justice?

WTF? Ok, I get it, the guy that lit the flag on fire was an asshole and a law breaker. Sure, no question. However, that doesn't mean people get to duct tape him to a flag pole. That's just freekin' stupid.

OK, so what in your opinion would be a good way to handle this situation? Me, I think the guy got off pretty light and it's apparent the guy who taped him to the flag pole does too. Otherwise he wouldn't have asked that the man's identity remain undisclosed for fear of retribution from others who aren't as lenient as he. At a minimum, a serious ass kicking was in order IMO just for the simple fact he willfully destroyed someone else's personal property, the fact that it was the US flag makes it even more egregious.


Lawrocket's post is pretty much spot on with the way a lot of Veterans think, not just the old crusty ones.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[quade 4]

Quote

OK, so what in your opinion would be a good way to handle this situation?

Hold the guy until cops get there. Simple really.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[lost_n_confuzd 0]

Quote

Except, what if they didn't have the right guy and the wrong guy they caught doesn't want to go to the police for other reasons?

Umm, they had the right guy. He admitted to it and I'm sure the VFW guy knew he had the right guy.

But your point is mute; either way the perp volunteered, wether he was the right guy or not. Even though we know it was the right guy

[Bolas 5]

Quote

Except, what if they didn't have the right guy and the wrong guy they caught doesn't want to go to the police for other reasons?

You mean like outstanding warrants, here illegally, stuff like that?

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

Quote

OK, so what in your opinion would be a good way to handle this situation?

Hold the guy until cops get there. Simple really.

Ok, fair enough answer. Unfortunately most of us live in the real world where not everything has to be settled by lawyers in a court room.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

OK, so what in your opinion would be a good way to handle this situation? Me, I think the guy got off pretty light and it's apparent the guy who taped him to the flag pole does too. Otherwise he wouldn't have asked that the man's identity remain undisclosed for fear of retribution from others who aren't as lenient as he. At a minimum, a serious ass kicking was in order IMO just for the simple fact he willfully destroyed someone else's personal property, the fact that it was the US flag makes it even more egregious.


Lawrocket's post is pretty much spot on with the way a lot of Veterans think, not just the old crusty ones.

It's disappointing to see that the VFW post commander has so little respect for the rule of law and the Constitution that he once swore to defend that he would act as a vigilante.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[JohnDeere 0]

Quote

Quote

OK, so what in your opinion would be a good way to handle this situation? Me, I think the guy got off pretty light and it's apparent the guy who taped him to the flag pole does too. Otherwise he wouldn't have asked that the man's identity remain undisclosed for fear of retribution from others who aren't as lenient as he. At a minimum, a serious ass kicking was in order IMO just for the simple fact he willfully destroyed someone else's personal property, the fact that it was the US flag makes it even more egregious.


Lawrocket's post is pretty much spot on with the way a lot of Veterans think, not just the old crusty ones.

It's disappointing to see that the VFW post commander has so little respect for the rule of law and the Constitution that he once swore to defend that he would act as a vigilante.

What law was broken?

I think he handled it well! Gave the guy some options and the guy chose his punisment. End of story!

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

Quote

OK, so what in your opinion would be a good way to handle this situation? Me, I think the guy got off pretty light and it's apparent the guy who taped him to the flag pole does too. Otherwise he wouldn't have asked that the man's identity remain undisclosed for fear of retribution from others who aren't as lenient as he. At a minimum, a serious ass kicking was in order IMO just for the simple fact he willfully destroyed someone else's personal property, the fact that it was the US flag makes it even more egregious.


Lawrocket's post is pretty much spot on with the way a lot of Veterans think, not just the old crusty ones.

It's disappointing to see that the VFW post commander has so little respect for the rule of law and the Constitution that he once swore to defend that he would act as a vigilante.

I'm at a loss here as your reply doesn't jive with what transpired. What law is it you think the VFW commander broke? The only one who clearly broke a law was the man who agreed to be taped to the flag pole.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[rhaig 0]

Quote

Quote

-Owner of property gives him an option of public humiliation for 6 hours or face criminal charges.

Except, what if they didn't have the right guy

but the guy they have admits to doing it?
***

Again, they didn't catch the guy while he was doing it and then detain him for the police, the VFW guy went after him a day later.

Vigilantism is not a good thing and I'm surprised people here are supporting it.

look. nobody got hurt. there are no charges being filed against anyone, so it appears both parties in this event are ok with the outcome.

so so sorry we didn't increase the costs to the taxpayer on this one....

--
Rob

[rhaig 0]

Quote

Quote

OK, so what in your opinion would be a good way to handle this situation?

Hold the guy until cops get there. Simple really.

detain a drunk. who was pissed off.

sounds like a recipe for violence to me.

Or get his plate number, make a couple of phone calls (or use publicdata.com) to find out who the guy is, ask him if he did it, and why, then make him an offer when he admits to it. Sounds like less emotion involved in the last option. Less likelihood of violence too.

--
Rob

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

I'm at a loss here as your reply doesn't jive with what transpired. What law is it you think the VFW commander broke? The only one who clearly broke a law was the man who agreed to be taped to the flag pole.

When the VFW post commander said, "To disgrace the American flag, we can't tolerate that," it shows that he places higher priority on a symbol than he does the first amendment. If he had complained about private property being destroyed, that would have been a little bit different.

Instead of utilizing police services, the commander tracked the man down himself, as a vigilante. We'll never know what choices the man was given, or when they were given, so we'll likely never know exactly what laws were broken, if any.

When I served, I swore to defend the Constitution, not to protect the flag. Part of defending the Constitution is defending the right to desecrate the flag.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[LouDiamond 1]

Ok, I'll say it again. What Law did the VFW commander break? You said he broke the law. I'm just curious which law he broke and how you arrived at the conclusion a law was broke simply because the VFW Commander settled the issue without involving the police.


As a military member, I see nothing to suggest that the VFW member broke any law and I support the manner in which he dealt with the one person who clearly broke the law.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

You said he broke the law.

No, I didn't say that. I said I was disappointed to see that "the VFW post commander has so little respect for the rule of law and the Constitution that he once swore to defend that he would act as a vigilante." Acting as a vigilante is disrespectful of the rule of law.

Having said that, he may have explicitly broken laws while acting as a vigilante. We were not given enough information to determine one way or another, so I haven't and won't make any accusations of such.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[FallingOsh 0]

Quote

Quote

I'm at a loss here as your reply doesn't jive with what transpired. What law is it you think the VFW commander broke? The only one who clearly broke a law was the man who agreed to be taped to the flag pole.

When the VFW post commander said, ""To disgrace the American flag, we can't tolerate that," it shows that he places higher priority on a symbol than he does the first amendment. If he had complained about private property being destroyed, that would have been a little bit different.

Instead of utilizing police services, the commander tracked the man down himself, as a vigilante. We'll never know what choices the man was given, or when they were given, so we'll likely never know exactly what laws were broken, if any.

When I served, I swore to defend the Constitution, not to protect the flag. Part of defending the Constitution is defending the right to desecrate the flag.

Didn't the flag belong to the VFW? The kid burned someone else's property. I can't have someone burning my gear. It wouldn't be protected by the 1st amendment either because it's mine. Would that be a different situation?

--------------------------------------------------
Stay positive and love your life.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

Didn't the flag belong to the VFW? The kid burned someone else's property. I can't have someone burning my gear. It wouldn't be protected by the 1st amendment either because it's mine. Would that be a different situation?

I think you'll find that the first paragraph of my post that you quoted addresses that exact point.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!