Lucky... 0 #26 September 29, 2009 Quote I said nothing about the Americans who lost their jobs. I said that worthless whining post about only rotten people being rich was a joke and an excuse. Right, you just laid a blanket to all lazy. Are you ok with welfare to the unemployed? How long till you kick them to teh curb? I guess you just answered how you feel about these people: poor young families, just had their carreer field contracted, people with pre-existing medical conditions that cannot work due to it.,..... Quote You're damn right they are. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/...9/health_care_reform http://www.gallup.com/...-Doing-Too-Much.aspx http://www.rasmussenreports.com/..._now_than_under_bush http://www.gallup.com/...ma-Job-Approval.aspx There's a dip, as the economy is still bad. He's still above 50%. The polls I'm talking about are the kind that elect / remove politicians. Quote And if that doesn't happen, will you get it or will you continue to defend Hopey Changey and take it out on people better off than you? Yea, as if I'm taking anything out on anyone. We'll see how things go, but HC is on the way, followed by the tax cut expiration, followed by more tax increases. Me happy - you pissed - too bad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #27 September 29, 2009 Obscene 1. offensive to morality or decency; indecent; depraved: obscene language. 2. causing uncontrolled sexual desire. 3. abominable; disgusting; repulsive. People that have major illnesses that cannot get them seen until they are about to pass out and/or die because they don't have HC....that's obscene. Homeless kids, that's obscene. Come on Bill, did someone steal your password too! You are a compassionate guy, this is not typical of you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #28 September 29, 2009 Quote In Capitalism it is controlled by the welathy elitists who are not accountable to anyone. And people are free to buy or not to buy, shop around for better prices, start their own company, better their kid's situation, etc. Quote ***That's besides the point anyway. You said we need to tax the rich to bring them down to other peoples' levels. Gee, I don't recall writing that, I believe you interpreted that in your own words. We need to tax the rich more so the gap shortens some. Shortening the gap means bringing them down. That's what you want done by taxing them more. Taxing the top 10% even more won't bring the lower 90% up. It's just a punishment suggestion. Quote ***It's not necessary to keep the country healthy. It's greed, jealousy, and bitterness of people better off than you. No, it's to have a society where people don't have different rules for different classes. Ok, so you're advocating the fair tax now? If Bill Gates pays 35% then everyone should, right? Quote It's about a society that works in harmony where people all have a chance at properity and have basic needs met along the way. There are no laws against poor people working their way up. Forcing others to pull them up, or just force the wealthy down, is placing unfair laws on different classes of society. We've already established you don't want that. Quote No, but if it went to people who don't have as much for legitimate reasons like many do, then I would find it pallatable. Ok, so we'll stop all sweeping government programs until "legitimate reasons" can be established. Quote Quote You want to tax the rich more than they already are because there is a wealth disparity. Yes. That solves nothing. It just proves you want to bring them down for being wealthy. Quote ***Wah, life isn't fair... they have more and I want it... wahh That's what you say to people w/o healthcare too, pure compassion. Never said that. I said that about you wanting to tax the rich for selfish, jealous, greedy reasons. Quote But write that down, when Obama raises taxes on the rich after HC reform, that's what I will be thinking to you Flattering but I don't know why. I'm far from rich. It will be entertaining to relive "read my lips," however. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 0 #29 September 29, 2009 QuoteQuoteWould you still play the game if everytime you started winning, mom came in and gave half your money to the kid who squandered all of his? No, but if it went to people who don't have as much for legitimate reasons like many do, then I would find it pallatable. What's a "legitimate" reason in Monopoly?Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #30 September 29, 2009 QuoteReal problems stem from "common-man" friendly government programs like buying up mortgages, thus insulating banks from risks and allowing artificially low interest rates which drive up the cost of real-estate so that we've gone from people paying half their salary for five years to 30-50% of their salary for 30 or 40 years to buy a home. Uh, sorry but the low interest rates were after Bush cut taxes and the economy stagnated, Greenspan tried to artificially stimulate the economy by lowering rates but it didn't work. QuoteReal problems stem from "common-man" friendly government programs like student loan guarantees, thus getting young people unaware of true debt service costs into loans with necessary secondary education cost increases far outpacing inflation so that we've gone from a part time job covering college with no debt to young people entering their adult life owing what they'd pay for half an artificially inflated house. And you're saying secondary and post education is too expensive and therefore these students should go to vo-tech instead? Statistically, college degreed people earn far more, the cost of college and the interest is a break. QuoteThose same problems make the impending collision between first and third world costs of labor and living more severe than it has to be and amplify the pain of the people caught up in it. Or as a politicians put it: Tax cuts my friends. SHow me a major federal tax cut that lead to great economic success for the nation. Please, post a citation of that tax cut and then simple data reflecting all the great thinsg it did - I'm tired of talking philosophy, let's get to the scienc eof tax cuts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #31 September 29, 2009 QuoteQuote***it pallatable. What's a "legitimate" reason in Monopoly? And speaking of "Monopoly" (Parker Broths TM) How are the Federal Reserve Notes any different than "Monopoly Money"? The Fed notes have no *real value*. It's the greatest sham ever perpetrated ,yet each of you would love to have a million of them! SUCKERS!!!!!!! Blues, Cliff "Military men are dumb ,stupid animals"- Henry Kissenger2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #32 September 29, 2009 Quote Right, you just laid a blanket to all lazy. Nope. I said that pitiful quote was a perfect excuse for the lazy and bitter. Nothing was said about all lazy people in America. Although I have no sympathy for the cronically lazy, you're trying to put words in my mouth. Quote Are you ok with welfare to the unemployed? How long till you kick them to teh curb? I'm actually torn on that. Have any reasonable arguments to convince me of your point of view? QuoteI guess you just answered how you feel about these people: poor young families, just had their carreer field contracted, people with pre-existing medical conditions that cannot work due to it.,..... Yeah, I already answered that attempt to put words in my mouth. My post was a response to his quote. QuoteThere's a dip, as the economy is still bad. He's still above 50%. The polls I'm talking about are the kind that elect / remove politicians. Oh... you didn't mean all of those other polls that go against what you're saying. I thought maybe the one about Americans being more pissed than the Bush era or the one about government doing too much might have an influence on elections. Sorry. Let's try these, then. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/generic_congressional_ballot http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/congressional_performance Quote Yea, as if I'm taking anything out on anyone. We'll see how things go, but HC is on the way, followed by the tax cut expiration, followed by more tax increases. Me happy - you pissed - too bad I finally figured out why you're always happy about tax increases. You don't care whether they help you or not, which they don't, you just want people with more than you to suffer. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #33 September 29, 2009 Quote It's the greatest sham ever perpetrated ,yet each of you would love to have a million of them! I'm sure you would honerably turn it down. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #34 September 29, 2009 QuoteQuote It's the greatest sham ever perpetrated ,yet each of you would love to have a million of them! I'm sure you would honerably turn it down. Oh no ,Falling Osh.., I've got all that and more . I worked hard for many years and now I realize the fragility of the dollar. Fact is it is backed by nothing other than the demand for itself. So all my hard work is for nothing. The dollar is going south. Blues, Cliff "Military men are dunb, stupid animals" - Henry Kissenger2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #35 September 29, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuote It's the greatest sham ever perpetrated ,yet each of you would love to have a million of them! I'm sure you would honerably turn it down. Oh no ,Falling Osh.., I've got all that and more . Did you cheat, lie, take advantage of people, or game the system to get it? I guess all of that stuff only applies to other people, right? -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,130 #36 September 29, 2009 >People that have major illnesses that cannot get them seen until they >are about to pass out and/or die because they don't have HC....that's >obscene. No, it's not. A system where someone will always take care of you is not obscene. You may find it so; that's fine. If you ever get to visit sub-Saharan Africa you may change your mind. Listening to people talk about how "obscene" healthcare is in the US is like listening to a 18 year old 120lb, 5'8" woman talk about how she's fat. You just sorta nod your head and let her talk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #37 September 29, 2009 Quote>People that have major illnesses that cannot get them seen until they >are about to pass out and/or die because they don't have HC....that's >obscene. No, it's not. A system where someone will always take care of you is not obscene. You may find it so; that's fine. If you ever get to visit sub-Saharan Africa you may change your mind. Listening to people talk about how "obscene" healthcare is in the US is like listening to a 18 year old 120lb, 5'8" woman talk about how she's fat. You just sorta nod your head and let her talk. ...and try to maintain eye contact... -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,130 #38 September 29, 2009 >I've got all that and more. Yikes! So which category do you fall into? Did you exploit the less fortunate? Did you game the system? Have a rich uncle? Or (horrors) did you WAIVE YOUR RIGHTS for the BIG 9/11 PAYOFF? >Fact is it is backed by nothing other than the demand for itself. You have just described money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #39 September 29, 2009 QuoteAnd people are free to buy or not to buy, shop around for better prices, start their own company, better their kid's situation, etc. Within the bounds set by the rich. Doesn't it mean anything to you when the truth is that the top 20% hold 93% of the cash? Explain that. QuoteShortening the gap means bringing them down. That's what you want done by taxing them more. Taxing the top 10% even more won't bring the lower 90% up. It's just a punishment suggestion. Gee I dunno, do upperclass Canadians feel that way? I guess they still live there so it can't be that bad. No, taxing the top 10% is a great start and it will bring them up. At what point would you ever advocate taxing the rich? The gap is widening with no indication it will stop, so what does it take? If teh top 20% hold 99% of the cash? WHne does your alarm go off? QuoteOk, so you're advocating the fair tax now? If Bill Gates pays 35% then everyone should, right? Firstly, let's throw outthis FAIR word. I say it's not fair that all don't have HC, you say fuck fair. You cry about taxes on teh rich; it's not fair. I say fuck fair. That's a subjective word. I was simply advocating that different classes should have similar laws and not be exclusive. QuoteThere are no laws against poor people working their way up. If you want to get us to think everyone has an equal chance then you aren't being honest. QuoteForcing others to pull them up, or just force the wealthy down, is placing unfair laws on different classes of society. We've already established you don't want that. What I was talking about is special privs for the rich. I want a society that has a baseline of care that no one falls below. The rich occassionally fall off and enjoy the safety net too. QuoteOk, so we'll stop all sweeping government programs until "legitimate reasons" can be established. We already have them, the elite don't want fund them. Legitimate reasons are homelesness, not being able to afford HC, illness, etc. They are there, the elite won;t let them be funded. QuoteThat solves nothing. It just proves you want to bring them down for being wealthy. I bet you grab a forbes and cry when someone gets bumped off the bottom. QuoteNever said that. I said that about you wanting to tax the rich for selfish, jealous, greedy reasons. SELFISH: devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others. JEALOUS: feeling resentment against someone because of that person's rivalry, success, or advantages GREEDY: grasping, rapacious, selfish. 1, 3. See avaricious. 2. ravenous, voracious, gluttonous, insatiable. 3. covetous, anxious. So let's see how basic HC falls into this..... Selfish - devoted to or caring only for oneself pretty much describes people who do not want others to have gov-provided HC under teh giuse of cost, esp when most of these subjects have no issue with 1 T on Iraq. And concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others. really nails the GOP and their followers. Jealous - So I'm jealous of the rich if I want basic HC because I'm feeling resentment against someone because of that person's rivalry, success, or advantages. Wanting a hair transplant would fit in there, wanting a checkup does not. Greedy - So I'm greedy if I want basic HC because I'm grasping, rapacious, selfish, avaricious, ravenous, voracious, gluttonous, insatiable, covetous and anxious. Yea, that as well make s a lot of sense, whereas the rich wanting tax cuts so they can climb back on Forbes' list are not these things. BRILLIANT. QuoteFlattering but I don't know why. I'm far from rich. It will be entertaining to relive "read my lips," however. THTA'S MY POINT AND BILL MAHER JUST STATE DON LENO TOO; HOW DO YOU GET THE UNDERCLASS THAT WOULD BE HELPED BY HC REFORM TO VOTE AGAINST IT? It's like getting the cows to volunteer to walk to slaughter to save the rancher money. It's just insane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #40 September 29, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteWould you still play the game if everytime you started winning, mom came in and gave half your money to the kid who squandered all of his? No, but if it went to people who don't have as much for legitimate reasons like many do, then I would find it pallatable. What's a "legitimate" reason in Monopoly? Make your question more clear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #41 September 29, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote It's the greatest sham ever perpetrated ,yet each of you would love to have a million of them! I'm sure you would honerably turn it down. Oh no ,Falling Osh.., I've got all that and more . Did you cheat, lie, take advantage of people, or game the system to get it? Quote All of the above.Blues, Cliff "Military men are dumb stupid animals" - Henry Kissenger 2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #42 September 29, 2009 Quote Nope. I said that pitiful quote was a perfect excuse for the lazy and bitter. Nothing was said about all lazy people in America. Although I have no sympathy for the cronically lazy, you're trying to put words in my mouth. Awwww, did I catch a nerve? Pitiful? Awww, I hope I didn't hurt feelings. You exonerated newly laid off, but didn't mention the others, which, in most circles, denotes an automatic exclusion too. Kinda like calling a girl a dirty whore, she replies she's not dirty; we infer she has acquiesced the whore part. Same deal here. It really perplexes me that conservatives just don't come out and say they don't care one bit about the poor, it isn't as if we wonder. I wrote: I know, poor young families, recently laid off, just had their carreer field contracted, people with pre-existing medical conditions that cannot work due to it.,..... yea, I get it, lazy worhtless Americans. And you only excused the newly laid off. Quote I'm actually torn on that. Have any reasonable arguments to convince me of your point of view? I think you just answered. If I have to convince you that there are people hurting then you are already desesitized. Quote Yeah, I already answered that attempt to put words in my mouth. My post was a response to his quote. Let's nit beat this dead horse, we know you don't care. Quote Oh... you didn't mean all of those other polls that go against what you're saying. I thought maybe the one about Americans being more pissed than the Bush era or the one about government doing too much might have an influence on elections. Sorry. Let's try these, then. And I said, let's watch the polls that matter; they come out in November. Quote I finally figured out why you're always happy about tax increases. You don't care whether they help you or not, which they don't, you just want people with more than you to suffer. I've been thru this a thousand times, but show me a major federal tax cut that has helped or a tax increase that has hurt us. Show simple data. Don't be abstract or oscure, major data from majot tax changes. If you want me to I will. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #43 September 29, 2009 Quote No, it's not. A system where someone will always take care of you is not obscene. OK, my bad then, having, let's say, marginal kidney failure that you have to wait until you're passed out to get help, dialysis, etc is just great. Also, look in your wallet and check out your fucking credit cards, many I'm sure. Your nice house, car, etc. If you play the ER game you are in debtor's prison until you can BK, then of course you will need ER help again, so you are rigth back there. Real nice, Bill. Quote You may find it so; that's fine. If you ever get to visit sub-Saharan Africa you may change your mind. I can honestly say I've never heard you come off as a neo-con. Compare Africa, parts of Asia, India and other toilets to make the US system of health look good. Let's use Scandinavia.....Canada, parts of W Europe. Quote Listening to people talk about how "obscene" healthcare is in the US is like listening to a 18 year old 120lb, 5'8" woman talk about how she's fat. You just sorta nod your head and let her talk. Written by someone with, I'm sure, a very good HC plan to a person that has rarely had it as an adult. Speaking of obscene Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #44 September 29, 2009 QuoteOh no ,Falling Osh.., I've got all that and more . Lucky and others like him want more of it taken away from you than what already is -- how do you like that? . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #45 September 29, 2009 QuoteQuoteOh no ,Falling Osh.., I've got all that and more . Lucky and others like him want more of it taken away from you than what already is -- how do you like that? You have to tie together the national cost of a HC plan to your tax rate. Of course you can't, they're not related. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #46 September 29, 2009 What would be you end goal with this? It seems that helping the poor and middle class is not your goal but destroying those that are financially better off than me is. I haven't heard of any middle class people losing billions of net worth. I've heard of a few of the rich having that happen, though. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #47 September 29, 2009 QuoteQuoteOh no ,Falling Osh.., I've got all that and more . Lucky and others like him want more of it taken away from you than what already is -- how do you like that? Well I know that there is no law which requires me to file or pay income tax. So I don't. Yes the IRS tried to fuck with me a few years back and I just stonewalled 'em. There is no law requiring the majority of Americans to pay income tax. But most of you guys are scared ,kow-towed pussies. You pay. You pay eventhough you can't site the section of the law which requires you to pay. Interestingly enough, the IRS can't site that section either. Open your wallets pussies!!! Blues, Cliff "Military men are dumb,stupid animals" Henry Kissenger2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #48 September 29, 2009 QuoteWhat would be you end goal with this? It seems that helping the poor and middle class is not your goal but destroying those that are financially better off than me is. This is a tired regurgitation of the same old 'people who want HC are greedy' argument. I want to see everyone win. Rich people are often employers of some kind and if their employees are well they are more productive and more mentally healthy. I don't want teh demise of anyone, I want a reasonable baseline of health and well-being for all. Quote I haven't heard of any middle class people losing billions of net worth. I've heard of a few of the rich having that happen, though. Collectively they do as the MC goes away and most go south. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #49 September 29, 2009 QuoteYou have to tie together the national cost of a HC plan to your tax rate. Of course you can't, they're not related. The tie has already been established, you're just not hearing. All other things remaining the same, providing better health care to people who can't pay for it would also increase the amount coming out of the taxpayer's pocket. Rather obvious isn't it? . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #50 September 29, 2009 Quote Well I know that there is no law which requires me to file or pay income tax. So I don't. I have a friend currently serving 25 in prison for knowing and acting on the exact same thing. I bet he'd love to have known your secrets! . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
