cliffwhite 0 #1 September 24, 2009 If it is determined that individual CIA agents engaged in torture should they be prosecuted in US courts? Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #2 September 24, 2009 No, because I do not trust who would define torture and of course we also have to consider why it was done. Do you often feel the need to judge others without actually knowing the circumstances and consequences? A trial like that would be a huge can of worms because once the CIA agent is on the stand it is all fair game. Do you really want the questions to be answered? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #3 September 24, 2009 QuoteNo, because I do not trust who would define torture and of course we also have to consider why it was done.Quote Torture has already been defined by treaties to which we are a signatory. I don't know how much you follow history ,warpedskydiver, but do you realize that we prosecuted American troops for waterboarding during the Vietnam police action? And to why it is being done, it doesn't matter. It is "criminal". Torture is "criminal and spelled out as such in the US Constitution. Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #4 September 24, 2009 And yet there has been worse done by many other nations who are members of the UN and no sanctions or prosecutions ever put forth. Do you understand that? Why would the USA submit itself to a prosecution that no other country would allow? What would be gained from this? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #5 September 24, 2009 iirc those prosecutions you quoted during the Viet Nam War were for violations of a standing order. They were not brought into the Hague. There was no UN tribunal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #6 September 24, 2009 QuoteThey were not brought into the Hague. There was no UN tribunal. The OP specified US courts.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jgoose71 0 #7 September 24, 2009 They have already been investigated by the previous administration and only one agent was found to have crossed the line and punished. These new investigations are crap. It's called a "Grandfather clause". It is unconstitutional to change the law and go back and prosecute someone for something that was legal when he did it. Also, the 8th amendment talks about Cruel and unusual punishment, but that bar keeps on moving. When the constitution was originally passed, we were still burning witches at the stake, putting people in stockades in the middle of town, flogging, and making adulterers wear a scarlet "A". Times Change. It has already been said that Agents working in the field doing the most dangerous jobs need to believe that when they are following orders, there is some permanence to those orders. Anything less is tying their hands and not allowing them to do their jobs. We don't need them second guessing them selves. If you want weak Homeland Security, we are on the right path."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cliffwhite 0 #8 September 24, 2009 Quote Also, the 8th amendment talks about Cruel and unusual punishment, but that bar keeps on moving. When the constitution was originally passed, we were still burning witches at the stake, putting people in stockades in the middle of town, flogging, and making adulterers wear a scarlet "A". Times Change.Quote You'll have to read what the Constitution says about treaties. Seems we did sign off on the Geneva Convention. It has already been said that Agents working in the field doing the most dangerous jobs need to believe that when they are following orders, there is some permanence to those orders.Quote What orders? Let me set you straight. The CIA is a civilian agency. Civilians don't have "orders". If a civilians employer tells him to torture someone the civilian can refuse and resign. If they carry out the torture they are guilty of a battery of crimes(IMO). Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #9 September 24, 2009 QuoteQuote Also, the 8th amendment talks about Cruel and unusual punishment, but that bar keeps on moving. When the constitution was originally passed, we were still burning witches at the stake, putting people in stockades in the middle of town, flogging, and making adulterers wear a scarlet "A". Times Change.Quote You'll have to read what the Constitution says about treaties. Seems we did sign off on the Geneva Convention. It has already been said that Agents working in the field doing the most dangerous jobs need to believe that when they are following orders, there is some permanence to those orders.Quote What orders? Let me set you straight. The CIA is a civilian agency. Civilians don't have "orders". If a civilians employer tells him to torture someone the civilian can refuse and resign. If they carry out the torture they are guilty of a battery of crimes(IMO). Blues, Cliff You just showed you know nothing about the CIA and it's workings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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warpedskydiver 0 #4 September 24, 2009 And yet there has been worse done by many other nations who are members of the UN and no sanctions or prosecutions ever put forth. Do you understand that? Why would the USA submit itself to a prosecution that no other country would allow? What would be gained from this? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #5 September 24, 2009 iirc those prosecutions you quoted during the Viet Nam War were for violations of a standing order. They were not brought into the Hague. There was no UN tribunal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #6 September 24, 2009 QuoteThey were not brought into the Hague. There was no UN tribunal. The OP specified US courts.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #7 September 24, 2009 They have already been investigated by the previous administration and only one agent was found to have crossed the line and punished. These new investigations are crap. It's called a "Grandfather clause". It is unconstitutional to change the law and go back and prosecute someone for something that was legal when he did it. Also, the 8th amendment talks about Cruel and unusual punishment, but that bar keeps on moving. When the constitution was originally passed, we were still burning witches at the stake, putting people in stockades in the middle of town, flogging, and making adulterers wear a scarlet "A". Times Change. It has already been said that Agents working in the field doing the most dangerous jobs need to believe that when they are following orders, there is some permanence to those orders. Anything less is tying their hands and not allowing them to do their jobs. We don't need them second guessing them selves. If you want weak Homeland Security, we are on the right path."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #8 September 24, 2009 Quote Also, the 8th amendment talks about Cruel and unusual punishment, but that bar keeps on moving. When the constitution was originally passed, we were still burning witches at the stake, putting people in stockades in the middle of town, flogging, and making adulterers wear a scarlet "A". Times Change.Quote You'll have to read what the Constitution says about treaties. Seems we did sign off on the Geneva Convention. It has already been said that Agents working in the field doing the most dangerous jobs need to believe that when they are following orders, there is some permanence to those orders.Quote What orders? Let me set you straight. The CIA is a civilian agency. Civilians don't have "orders". If a civilians employer tells him to torture someone the civilian can refuse and resign. If they carry out the torture they are guilty of a battery of crimes(IMO). Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #9 September 24, 2009 QuoteQuote Also, the 8th amendment talks about Cruel and unusual punishment, but that bar keeps on moving. When the constitution was originally passed, we were still burning witches at the stake, putting people in stockades in the middle of town, flogging, and making adulterers wear a scarlet "A". Times Change.Quote You'll have to read what the Constitution says about treaties. Seems we did sign off on the Geneva Convention. It has already been said that Agents working in the field doing the most dangerous jobs need to believe that when they are following orders, there is some permanence to those orders.Quote What orders? Let me set you straight. The CIA is a civilian agency. Civilians don't have "orders". If a civilians employer tells him to torture someone the civilian can refuse and resign. If they carry out the torture they are guilty of a battery of crimes(IMO). Blues, Cliff You just showed you know nothing about the CIA and it's workings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
warpedskydiver 0 #9 September 24, 2009 QuoteQuote Also, the 8th amendment talks about Cruel and unusual punishment, but that bar keeps on moving. When the constitution was originally passed, we were still burning witches at the stake, putting people in stockades in the middle of town, flogging, and making adulterers wear a scarlet "A". Times Change.Quote You'll have to read what the Constitution says about treaties. Seems we did sign off on the Geneva Convention. It has already been said that Agents working in the field doing the most dangerous jobs need to believe that when they are following orders, there is some permanence to those orders.Quote What orders? Let me set you straight. The CIA is a civilian agency. Civilians don't have "orders". If a civilians employer tells him to torture someone the civilian can refuse and resign. If they carry out the torture they are guilty of a battery of crimes(IMO). Blues, Cliff You just showed you know nothing about the CIA and it's workings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
