5 faces of the uninsured

[Lucky... 0]

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Ever hear of the Bill of Rights? I know, kind of obscure as a reference.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

I don't remember reading that anywhere in the Bill of Rights. Which amendment would that be?

Pardon me, Declaration of Indep.

[Lucky... 0]

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Yeah, about that - no. You used exaggeration to state your case - that can be called hyperbole.

By saying: Except cash in regard to the guy had every chance to buy ins, except cash? How is that a figure of speech AND an exaggeration. It's neither. Move along, son.

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No, the point stated (I should know, since I'm the one that typed it) is that there was nothing preventing him from being a cash patient at the doctor. NOTHING to do with buying or not buying insurance.

Other than if he couldn't afford insurance, he could afford the doctor bill; make sense?

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You stated yourself in your later tapdancing that there was no way to know if the person had money or not - therefore, you exaggerated.

Since I didn't say that he definately didn't have the money, which would have been an assumption, then I didn't exaggerate.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/exaggerate

to enlarge beyond bounds or the truth

I didn't claim that he didn't have the money, so no claim, no truth stated, no exaggeration.

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Your inability or refusal to verify the data doesn't make it false, sorry.

And your requirement that I verify your source, your data is ridiculous. You post a direcct link, then it is my job, until you have failed to meet your job.

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I have NO duty to you - I've given you the website and told you where to look - go do it or pound sand, I don't care which.

Nope, and the general assumption in chat forums/posting boards is that you come in with your citation and make your point. You have once again posted unsubstantiable position.

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Speaking of which, here's some more IRS data for you. They have new info up for 07 vs the 05 data I quoted before:

Top 1% has 22.83% of total income. They pay 40.42% of the tax.
Top 5% has 37.44% of total income. They pay 60.63% of the tax.
Top 10% has 48.05% of total income. They pay 71.22% of the tax.
Top 25% has 68.71% of total income. They pay 86.59% of the tax.
Top 50% has 87.74% of total income. They pay 97.11% of the tax.

And of course, no citation. Why would it be different? Also, you are citing income, so even if teh numbers are reliable, I posted total worth of top 1% at 34% per my posted citation. You are posting apples/oranges to my data. So I am right, the top 1% hold 34% of ALL WEALTH. Income is a different figure.

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Dude - we're having to pump in light and air to you as it is - time to stop digging. You talked shit and got bit - get over it and quit trying to save face.

You're the one getting pissed and ensuring an expletive or 3 for every post, I think it's you who are blowing the fuse.

Also, try to stick with the corect data type; worth not income.

***

[Lucky... 0]

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Ever hear of the Bill of Rights? I know, kind of obscure as a reference.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

Step in it much?

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Good catch...I typed "on" instead of "only", therefore I intended it to read, "There is no right to happiness only the freedom to pursue it!"

So, as you have so kindly pointed out that is exactly what it says, not that we have the right to be happy but only to pursue happyness!

***There is no abbolition against it.

In reality there is!! The constitution enumerates what the federal government can do. Therefore, if it is not stated as something it can do then that means it can't.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Notice it says the powers NOT delegated to the United States by the Constitution..... That means that if the constitution doesn't say they can then they can't!
Here is a simple example: If your mom told you to go to the store and buy milk and bread and you brought milk, bread, and ice cream then you didn't do what was asked of you! Your mom does not have to say "Buy milk and bread and don't buy ice cream, cake, pie, steak, chicken, chips, soup, candy bars, etc..... She need to only tell you what you can buy and that ultimately excludes everything else. Lets make a simple math equation out of it just like you learned in school when learning to do word problems. Buy milk + buy bread = did what mom said. Therefore buy milk + buy bread + buy ice cream doesn't = did what mom said. Its just like 1+2=3 but 1+2+4 doesn't = 3 or 1+2+5 doesn't = 3
Its that simple!

Actually it was the Declaration of Independence that states We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That was my point that these things are guaranteed as inalienable.

[mnealtx 0]

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Yeah, about that - no. You used exaggeration to state your case - that can be called hyperbole.

By saying: Except cash in regard to the guy had every chance to buy ins, except cash? How is that a figure of speech AND an exaggeration. It's neither. Move along, son.

And wrong, again - I stated:

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Bull - there's nothing preventing him from going to the doc and being a cash patient.

Recall that? If not, go back and re-read post 14.

You replied:

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Except cash.

Thereby stating that the person didn't have the cash to pay the DOCTOR. Nothing was stated about insurance - only the doctor.

So, yes - move along, son.

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No, the point stated (I should know, since I'm the one that typed it) is that there was nothing preventing him from being a cash patient at the doctor. NOTHING to do with buying or not buying insurance.

Other than if he couldn't afford insurance, he could afford the doctor bill; make sense?

[mnealtx 0]

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That was my point that these things are guaranteed as inalienable.

Sweet - then I claim the right for you to not waste my tax money on this crap.

Problem solved.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 3,111]

>then I claim the right for you to not waste my tax money on this crap.

Looks like you're going to get voted down, which is what happens in a democracy. Problem solved.

[rehmwa 2]

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You give us a tear-jerker anecdote, with less than full information. Sorry if that sounds cold, but one incomplete story from a questionable source means very little. If anything, it raises suspicions.

it's ok, there was a link

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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Pardon me, Declaration of Indep.

can you provide a link? Until then, I'll just have to dismiss it

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,146]

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Ever hear of the Bill of Rights? I know, kind of obscure as a reference.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

I don't remember reading that anywhere in the Bill of Rights. Which amendment would that be?

It's the nation's MISSION STATEMENT.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Lucky... 0]

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Pardon me, Declaration of Indep.

can you provide a link? Until then, I'll just have to dismiss it

We wouldn't want that.

http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

[rehmwa 2]

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Pardon me, Declaration of Indep.

can you provide a link? Until then, I'll just have to dismiss it

We wouldn't want that.

http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

you expect me to give credence to an obviously socialistic agenda pushing website like that? It's completely unamerican - totally bogus - you can find all sorts of crap on the "internet"

obviously since Al Gore invented it, it'll have a bunch of commie websites to let you indoctrinate the masses into your vision of ultimate crapulositicity

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Lucky... 0]

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Pardon me, Declaration of Indep.

can you provide a link? Until then, I'll just have to dismiss it

We wouldn't want that.

http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

you expect me to give credence to an obviously socialistic agenda pushing website like that? It's completely unamerican - totally bogus - you can find all sorts of crap on the "internet"

obviously since Al Gore invented it, it'll have a bunch of commie websites to let you indoctrinate the masses into your vision of ultimate crapulositicity

I understand you're defending your brother for posting data with no source. Point taken, dismissed with the rest of people who just want me to believe their diddy, just as they did.

[lawrocket 3]

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So here's a guy who rolled the dice and lost. Yep. Nothing indicated that he couldn't afford insurance. he was insured until a divorce, then had to pay $187 per month. Then up to $400 per month. So, 15 years of insurance at $400 per month.

It was a bad string of occurrences that led to his demise. You make assumptions he could still afford the 400/mo, nothing states that.

A "bad string of occurrences" is liberal apeak for "shit losuy choices."

I DO assume he could afford $400 per month. He could afford a great house and to send his kids to the finest schools. He'd been in business on his own for a decade and was still broke.

Yeah. I bet he dropped his insurance when the last kid turned 18 and he wasn't ordered to keep them isnured anymore.

The story basically points to a series of inferences one can make.

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This is, in my mind, a CLASSIC example of the uninsured. Someone with wealth who decided that he would rather spend his money elsewhere. Then, "woe is me."

As long as you understand why liberals / moderates refer to conservatives as incompassionate. Again, you assume he had welth, his business had slipped it stated.

[jcd11235 0]

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His health isn't worth $400 per month to him. But it should be to me?

Do you believe that good health occurs in a vacuum.

Let's consider the hypothetical guy Adam. Adam is poor, and cannot afford health insurance. He struggles to keep up with the rent, utilities and food bills. He can't even afford to buy and insure a car, so he takes the bus to work.

Adam comes down with a nasty cough. Not being able to afford medical attention, he sucks it up and drives on. The cough gets worse, but he can't afford to miss work, so he keeps going, so he can keep up with rent.

It tuns out Adam has bronchitis. Furthermore, he's infected several others on his bus and at his workplace, since he was unable to afford to seek medical attention and get the proper medication. Unfortunately, those infected by Adam in turn infect others.

How does the cost to society from Adam avoiding the medical attention that he can't afford compare to the cost to society if he had simply been able to go see the doctor under a universal healthcare plan?

Just as an educated society is in everybody's best interest, so is a healthy society.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[lawrocket 3]

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Do you believe that good health occurs in a vacuum.

No.

I do, however, believe that my health is my respnsibility.

[Reply]Let's consider the hypothetical guy Adam. Adam is poor, and cannot afford health insurance.

[jcd11235 0]

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Do you believe that good health occurs in a vacuum.

No.

I do, however, believe that my health is my respnsibility.

[Reply]Let's consider the hypothetical guy Adam. Adam is poor, and cannot afford health insurance.

Hmm. Okay. …

[lawrocket 3]

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Do you believe that good health occurs in a vacuum.

No.

I do, however, believe that my health is my respnsibility.

[Reply]Let's consider the hypothetical guy Adam. Adam is poor, and cannot afford health insurance.

Hmm. Okay. ?

Way to manipulate the hypothetical to avoid facing the issue. Next time, save yourself the trouble and just ignore the post if you don't want to answer the question posed.

Have a good night.

[airdvr 210]

There were 45.7 million uninsured people in the U.S. in 2007.

Of that amount, 6.4 million are the Medicaid undercount. These are people who are on one of two government health insurance programs, Medicaid or S-CHIP, but mistakenly (intentionally or not) tell the Census taker that they are uninsured. There is disagreement about the size of the Medicaid undercount. This figure is based on a 2005 analysis from the Department of Health and Human Services.

Another 4.3 million are eligible for free or heavily subsidized government health insurance (again, either Medcaid or SCHIP), but have not yet signed up. While these people are not pre-enrolled in a health insurance program and are therefore counted as uninsured, if they were to go to an emergency room (or a free clinic), they would be automatically enrolled in that program by the provider after receiving medical care. There’s an interesting philosophical question that I will skip about whether they are, in fact, uninsured, if technically they are protected from risk.

Another 9.3 million are non-citizens. I cannot break that down into documented vs. undocumented citizens.

Another 10.1 million do not fit into any of the above categories, and they have incomes more than 3X the poverty level. For a single person that means their income exceeded $30,600 in 2007, when the median income for a single male was $33,200 and for a female, $21,000. For a family of four, if your income was more than 3X the poverty level in 2007, you had $62,000 of income or more, and you were above the national median.

Of the remaining 15.6 million uninsured, 5 million are adults between ages 18 and 34 and without kids.

The remaining 10.6 million do not fit into any of the above categories, so they are:
U.S. citizens;
with income below 300% of poverty;
not on or eligible for a taxpayer-subsidized health insurance program;
and not a childless adult between age 18 and 34.
http://keithhennessey.com/2009/04/09/how-many-uninsured-people-need-additional-help-from-taxpayers/

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Lucky... 0]

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There were 45.7 million uninsured people in the U.S. in 2007. http://keithhennessey.com/...help-from-taxpayers/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Hennessey

I can't think of a more objective source. Perhaps now he (Keith Hennessy) can direct us on his thoughts on gay marriage, mandatory religion in schools and tell us how the ruch are being stripped in this 94th country in distribution of wealth.

Please guys, keep it up, I want a bigger cushion in congress.

No real citation other than the word of a hardcore Republican.

__________________________________________________

http://www.nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml

Here's an objective site.

- Several studies estimate the number of uninsured Americans. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, nearly 46 million Americans, or 18 percent of the population under the age of 65, were without health insurance in 2007, their latest data available.1

- The Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality, using the Medical Expenditure Panel Survey (MEPS) estimated that the percentage of uninsured Americans under age 65 represented 27 percent of the population. According to the MEPS data, nearly 54 million Americans under the age of 65 were uninsured in the first-half of 2007.

- A recent study shows that based on the effects of the recession alone (not job loss), it is projected that nearly seven (7) million Americans will lose their health insurance coverage between 2008 and 2010. 3 Urban Institute researchers estimate that if unemployment reaches 10 percent, another six (6) million Americans will lose their health insurance coverage. Taking these numbers together, it is conceivable that by next year, 57 to 60 million Americans will be uninsured.

- The Urban Institute estimates that under a worse case scenario, 66 million Americans will be uninsured by 2019.

- Nearly 90 million people – about one-third of the population below the age of 65 spent a portion of either 2007 or 2008 without health coverage.


There are objective number for you; how can you post that neo-con rhetoric with a straigh face (assuming you had a straight face)?

[jcd11235 0]

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Next time you want to state a viewpoint without room for an opposing viewpoint or criticism of it, state your intentions.

That wasn't my intention at all. I asked a legitimate question framed in a realistic hypothetical situation. You avoided answering the question by trying to change the hypothetical situation.

Newsflash: Some people really don't have extra income beyond food, rent & utilities, even with multiple jobs. Those people get sick and become contagious, too.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[airdvr 210]

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can't think of a more objective source. Perhaps now he (Keith Hennessy) can direct us on his thoughts on gay marriage, mandatory religion in schools and tell us how the ruch are being stripped in this 94th country in distribution of wealth.

Please guys, keep it up, I want a bigger cushion in congress.

No real citation other than the word of a hardcore Republican.

Hennessey holds a B.S. in Mathematics and Political Science from Stanford University as well as a Master of Public Policy from the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard.[1] The title of his Harvard public policy thesis was Unintended Consequences: Critical Assumptions in the Clinton Health Plan.

Yep...just another stoopid Harvard Grad. Wait...where did BHO go to school?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[rehmwa 2]

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I understand you're defending your brother for posting data with no source. Point taken, dismissed with the rest of people who just want me to believe their diddy, just as they did.

I already stuck up for Mike - at this point, I was being playful with you, my friend

but you are a bit somber

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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His health isn't worth $400 per month to him. But it should be to me?

Do you believe that good health occurs in a vacuum.

most dental offices and most surgical rooms are equipped with suction machines

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[lawrocket 3]

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I asked a legitimate question framed in a realistic hypothetical situation. You avoided answering the question by trying to change the hypothetical situation.

No. You presented a hypothetical with enough facts to make competing inferences from the ones you intended to convey.


[Reply]Newsflash: Some people really don't have extra income beyond food, rent & utilities, even with multiple jobs. Those people get sick and become contagious, too.

[jcd11235 0]

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No. You presented a hypothetical with enough facts to make competing inferences from the ones you intended to convey.

I apologize for focusing on the question and not the character development. The question remains, should you decide to address it.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!