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Lucky...

5 faces of the uninsured

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I think you miss the point.

He can't get insurance at a reasonable price anymore.

Now, you could argue that if he hadn't dropped it, it's unlikely the price would have risen, but even that's not guaranteed.

Remember, the discussion is about affordable health insurance for everyone (at least to me it is)

Ian



And for that to happen, the total tab must come down; even stopping the growth is not enough. We can not keep spending $7K+ per person per year, (and growing). If you think it is bad now, just wait til our population bubble hits the big buck years of their health care.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

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You miss the point, he can't go to a doctor for regular checkups, he has to wait until he's sick and then they pursue you for it.



Bull - there's nothing preventing him from going to the doc and being a cash patient.



Except cash.



Prove it.

It's a story allegedly based upon a factual situation, these situations are known to be prevalent. I know it's unusual for you to have people post citations, but I did. If you care to impeach it then go for it.

It's a USA Today article, if they are a bunch of liberal-pandering agenda-driven media types then go for that angle.



Spare me the hyperbole - if it can't be proven he had the money to pay for a checkup, it can't be proven he didn't. You can't have it both ways.



Definition hyperbole: Mike's favorite ornate word; missuses it usually, but overuses it constantly

It's a USA Today article. USA Today is a respected publication. This scenario is just representative of many others that have found themselves here, it's not necessary to "prove" any individual case, hence, this is a case in point. If I could prove it, you could say it's an aberration. So the point here is that people who seem bulletproof can fall from grace, I'm sure we personally know people in this position.

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Definition hyperbole: Mike's favorite ornate word; missuses it usually, but overuses it constantly



Actually, the definition is:

"A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect." Sorta sounds like most of your posts, doesn't it?

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It's a USA Today article. USA Today is a respected publication. This scenario is just representative of many others that have found themselves here, it's not necessary to "prove" any individual case, hence, this is a case in point. If I could prove it, you could say it's an aberration. So the point here is that people who seem bulletproof can fall from grace, I'm sure we personally know people in this position.



So, minus all the tapdancing immediately above, you were talking shit about what the patient could/couldn't afford and got caught at it.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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So 40 million people are going to immediately avail themselves to the new "free" health care, and a whole bunch more are going to retire (I'm guessing because they no longer need the "free" care available thru employers and will get the "free" care thru the government).



I love your sensationalization, even if you have to mischaracterize it. There will be no free HC for everyone, the gov will just limit costs, etc and mandate it for everyone. For the truly indigent there may be "free" HC.

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Not even addressing that in the 40 million are at least 10 million, maybe 15 million illegals; which will make getting here illegally that much more attractive to a whole lot more people that want to get in on the "free" health care.



Because your side cannot address the issue, you misdirect the issue to illegals when there is language prohibiting that. Now will they get emergency care? Of course, they do now, will then.

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You miss the point, he can't go to a doctor for regular checkups, he has to wait until he's sick and then they pursue you for it.



Bull - there's nothing preventing him from going to the doc and being a cash patient.



Except cash.



Well, what did he do with all the money he quit spending on insurance? Toys maybe? Land?

Choices people, choices.

It occurs to me that a lot of people behave like teenage miscreants and demand the liberty to do so. Then when their choices end up turning into consequences they suddenly want to be nurtured on the governement teat.

We are going to end up with guranteed issue, universal coverage, and mandated plans; for better or worse, mostly because the general population has shown that, as a whole and on average, they can not manage their own affairs. This will address the fact that people need to be mothered. It still does not address the fact that the funding simply is not there. Unless of course you think that taxing future generations into unbelievable levels of debt is acceptable. Another symptom of the myopic vision of our fearless leaders.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

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They are not conservatives or liberals, they just borrow whatever label makes them feel good at the time or will get them the most mileage.



Great, let's drop the label, as I wrote, many/most voters many consider HC, once they now can have it, a #1 Priority above all others when considering a politician. As well, voters who never turned out will feel compelled to show and vote to defend their newly-gained HC. Shake it, spin my words however you want, this could amount to a major political shift.

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I don't do those kinds of labels. If our elected officials gave them up they might be able to see past them and get something meaningful done instead of getting paid to bicker like the Hatfields and McCoys.



Something meaningful like.....HC reform? It's no surprise that Republicans like to cut taxes for the rich, kill organized labor, kill any substantive HC reform, etc. If you think of what benefits the rich it is synonymous with the Republican Party.

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BTW, I'd be fine with the demise of the Rep party, so long as we could sweep out the Dems with them.



Yea, and then we'll bring in the Libertarians so they could buy a fleet of dump trucks to go around daily to pick up the dead bodies of the ill and elderly.

Libertarian compassion: No insurance, no money = fuck you; die in the street you pig. The Republicans make sense when standing next to Libertarians.

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so 40 million people are going to immediately avail themselves to the new "free" health care, and a whole bunch more are going to retire (I'm guessing because they no longer need the "free" care available thru employers and will get the "free" care thru the government).

Who foots the bill?



these guys keep saying it won't cost us anything

apparently, the new system will be paid for by the people of (insert country here) - or the medical field is just going to stop charging for everything????

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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Yea, and then we'll bring in the Libertarians so they could buy a fleet of dump trucks to go around daily to pick up the dead bodies of the ill and elderly.



nonsense - the good socialist ill and elderly need to dig their own graves prior to dying to improve efficiency for the rest of the people. That would be MUCH more efficient

no good citizen would want to pay for dumptrucks, and then there's the cost of hiring drivers, and insurance, and gas - what kind of spendthrift are you - I suppose you'll just raise taxes for your freaky, socialist dumptruck program too.

a good entrepeneur will find a use for those bodies - perhaps dehydrate them and use the resulting pure chemicals for our own personal use - perhaps in cosmetics of some sort - or cat food filler

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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Actually, the definition is:

"A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect." Sorta sounds like most of your posts, doesn't it?



Right, Bill showed you how that made no sense yesterday, your defintion is the one he gave you verbatim; wonder where you got it? I don't recall using an expression in the post that you accused me of hyperbole, hence you once again make no sense without even measuring for exaggeration.

Mike, the only time I seee people refusing to cite their source is when that data or the source is BS. I have dismissed your data and point as BS, would you like to address my citation or provide a source for your data with a DIRECT LINK, not a general website? Dude, provide or you lose, it's a common standard with internet debate that you provide a source with direct link.

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So, minus all the tapdancing immediately above, you were talking shit about what the patient could/couldn't afford and got caught at it.



Not at all, the article was labeled: The 5 faces of the uninsured to show case examples of represented groups of people w/o HC. Take it for what it's worth to you. You want to retend he doesn't represent millions of Americans then good for you. But when you scratch your head to wonder why your party is getting punked, has been for the last 2 elections, don't look further from attitudes like yours; they just turn people off and make em votethe other way - now that is stastical fact. B|

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So 40 million people are going to immediately avail themselves to the new "free" health care, and a whole bunch more are going to retire (I'm guessing because they no longer need the "free" care available thru employers and will get the "free" care thru the government).



I love your sensationalization, even if you have to mischaracterize it. There will be no free HC for everyone, the gov will just limit costs, etc and mandate it for everyone. For the truly indigent there may be "free" HC.

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Not even addressing that in the 40 million are at least 10 million, maybe 15 million illegals; which will make getting here illegally that much more attractive to a whole lot more people that want to get in on the "free" health care.



Because your side cannot address the issue, you misdirect the issue to illegals when there is language prohibiting that. Now will they get emergency care? Of course, they do now, will then.



I am not misdirecting. It is a critique of the bogus claim that there are 40 to 45 million uninsured Americans, or uninsured citizens. (Though I do see they often use the word people now instead - ver savvy on their part). Everytime someone posts that number it is an outright lie, or intentional deception, or just plain incompetent.

As far as "free" that is why I put it in quotes; because a good chunk of people treat it as free when it does not come directly out of their pocket. Patient behavior changes when they have to foot part of the bill directly. It is why the employer provided Cadillac plans no longer exist. The perception of a patient that has no out of pocket is that it is free. It's why countries with socialized medicine have long queues for care and rationed care. Yes, the government will limit costs (maybe even fix pricing?) AND limit access; because they have to in order to keep the system from imploding.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

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Well, what did he do with all the money he quit spending on insurance? Toys maybe? Land?



Broke, maybe? You guys are taking 1 case and taking it way too seriously. Even if we could determine that he was totally honest and really broke, he is just 1 person and this could be an aberration. Look, the point is that peopel can fall from grace, as well the other 4 faces had people in minimum wage jobs and other cases where they had no choice about buying insurance due to pre-existings, etc. Don't throw yourself into 1 case, feel like you've disproven it and claim victory. There are 47ish million people w/o HC, some probably can afford it, many cannot; I think that's a fair way to look at it. Another aspect is of cost and regualtion, so aside from providing care for indigent, which I know irks you, providing regulation for everyone's policy.

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Great, let's drop the label, as I wrote, many/most voters many consider HC, once they now can have it, a #1 Priority above all others when considering a politician. As well, voters who never turned out will feel compelled to show and vote to defend their newly-gained HC. Shake it, spin my words however you want, this could amount to a major political shift.

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BTW, I'd be fine with the demise of the Rep party, so long as we could sweep out the Dems with them.



Yea, and then we'll bring in the Libertarians so they could buy a fleet of dump trucks to go around daily to pick up the dead bodies of the ill and elderly.

Libertarian compassion: No insurance, no money = fuck you; die in the street you pig. The Republicans make sense when standing next to Libertarians.



And at one time it was terrorism, or the economy, or global warming, or the demise of Social Seucrity, or dependence on oil, or (insert pet cause here).

The sheeple can be led to whatever issue you want. Today's flavor is health care and health care financing. All that has accomplished so far is to bring a whole lot of people into the fray who haven't got a clue what they are talking about.

If we see the end of a party or parties, most likely we would see one or both morph into something similar, with maybe a little less acrimonious bickering. We are way past the point where Libertarian philosophies would ever be embraced - people as a whole do not want that level of personal responsibility.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

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Who foots the bill?.



If it's a single payer system then the reduction of administrative costs, negotiated fees, and bulk purchasing of drugs (now illegal) would pay for most of it. One estimate I've seen puts the administrative savings at about $350 Billion per year. The fact that our current government programs, Medicare/Medicade, administrative expenses are less than 6%, that seems to support the argument that the transition would pay for itself. Of course you'd have a bunch of unemployed health care administrators but that's a different topic.

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Actually, the definition is:

"A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect." Sorta sounds like most of your posts, doesn't it?



Right, Bill showed you how that made no sense yesterday, your defintion is the one he gave you verbatim; wonder where you got it?



And what thread would that have been in? I must have missed it. Found it.

As for the definition, probably the same place bill did - a dictionary. You might want to pick one up, sometime.

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I don't recall using an expression in the post that you accused me of hyperbole, hence you once again make no sense without even measuring for exaggeration.



"Except cash" isn't an exaggeration?

No problem, Lucky - next time, instead of trying to be reasonably polite, I'll just say you're lying through your teeth.

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Mike, the only time I seee people refusing to cite their source is when that data or the source is BS. I have dismissed your data and point as BS, would you like to address my citation or provide a source for your data with a DIRECT LINK, not a general website?



I don't give a rat's ass what you 'dismiss' or not.

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Dude, provide or you lose, it's a common standard with internet debate that you provide a source with direct link.



I don't give a flying FUCK what your "standard" is. The information is on the IRS website - there's even a link on their homepage. If you're too lazy or mentally challenged to type it into your browser and go there, then you're not getting the fucking data.

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So, minus all the tapdancing immediately above, you were talking shit about what the patient could/couldn't afford and got caught at it.



Not at all, the article was labeled: The 5 faces of the uninsured to show case examples of represented groups of people w/o HC.



So, show me in the article where he couldn't pay for a doctor's visit or a checkup at a health clinic out of pocket, like you said up-thread.

What's that? The article didn't?

Guess you were using hyperbole lying through your teeth then, weren't you?
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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You miss the point, he can't go to a doctor for regular checkups, he has to wait until he's sick and then they pursue you for it.



Bull - there's nothing preventing him from going to the doc and being a cash patient.



Except cash.



So, one again, rather than be responsible and save up money for just such a situation or when things got bad we should just pay for his irresponsibility. Lets remember, people go to the poor house in a car with a house and with a TV here in the US. In other countries those with a lot or a "well established" may have a mud house and a bicycle and can buy their own food instead of having to grow it! On top of that there is no insurance company so if you need some type of medical care its cash only! Do you know what this is called?...............Its called life!
I shouldn't have to pay for them cause I was prepared and they weren't or because I work hard and they don't or because I am responsible and they aren't.....and if things get tough for me I don't expect or want anyone else being force to pay for my situation either! I will make the appropriate and tough decision and live with the consequenses. Why should I have to also live with the consequenses of other too? There is no right to healthcare! There is no right to riches! There is no right to happiness on the the freedom to pursue it!!!!!

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>Nice hyperbole there, bill . . .

Hyperbole? A hyperbole is figure of speech in which statements are intentionally exaggerated. And since a conservative here actually suggested this approach for 'cash patients' who had trouble paying, there's no exaggeration.



Sorry, Bill - I missed this until Lucky brought it up, below.

Wow-- ONE PERSON is the GOP, now? Sounds like a pretty big exaggeration to me.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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Well, what did he do with all the money he quit spending on insurance? Toys maybe? Land?



Broke, maybe? You guys are taking 1 case and taking it way too seriously. Even if we could determine that he was totally honest and really broke, he is just 1 person and this could be an aberration. Look, the point is that peopel can fall from grace, as well the other 4 faces had people in minimum wage jobs and other cases where they had no choice about buying insurance due to pre-existings, etc. Don't throw yourself into 1 case, feel like you've disproven it and claim victory. There are 47ish million people w/o HC, some probably can afford it, many cannot; I think that's a fair way to look at it. Another aspect is of cost and regualtion, so aside from providing care for indigent, which I know irks you, providing regulation for everyone's policy.



And you are taking one case and making it a supporting arguement for your agenda. I typically provide info on trends, patterns, and consequences we see as the result of behaviors of a large population (because that is what insurance is).

You give us a tear-jerker anecdote, with less than full information. Sorry if that sounds cold, but one incomplete story from a questionable source means very little. If anything, it raises suspicions.

Think of it this way, when you see a skydiving story in the mainstream media, how well is it reported? How clear are the facts? Do you get the whole story? How many solid conclusions can you draw based on the story and what you (or any of us) know about skydiving?

That is how I feel about mainstream coverage of this topic. It is for the most part a pile of uninformed BS. And the public's willingness to eat it up is more a testament to their willingness to be led to the trough than anything.

Yesterday it was global warming, and the mainstream got on the bandwagon full force, and the public all became experts and pontificated endlessly - mostly parroting someone else's BS. Today it is health care. What will it be tommorow?
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

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Who foots the bill?.



If it's a single payer system then the reduction of administrative costs, negotiated fees, and bulk purchasing of drugs (now illegal) would pay for most of it. One estimate I've seen puts the administrative savings at about $350 Billion per year. The fact that our current government programs, Medicare/Medicade, administrative expenses are less than 6%, that seems to support the argument that the transition would pay for itself. Of course you'd have a bunch of unemployed health care administrators but that's a different topic.



Overall admin is currently at 12%. Many plans are below 10%, some by mandate. The 6% claimed by Medicare is misleading. They have a very narrow set of benefits for a well defined relatively homogenous population. And they provide very little in terms of cost containment outside of a thinly veiled form of price fixing (referred to as negotiated fees).

I'll end up working for whoever the government contracts with to do the work - if it comes down to that. Maybe I get lucky and am able to retire before that actually happens.

Insurance companies do have their bureaucratic nature; but I can tell you from experience in working with those government programs and our regulators, you ain't seen nothing yet. Some of the absolutely BS bogus hoops we have to jump thru are unbelievable. I'd guess that easily a couple of the percentage points in our admin are attributable to meeting BS regulatory requirments (but that is just a guess).
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

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And at one time it was terrorism, or the economy, or global warming, or the demise of Social Seucrity, or dependence on oil, or (insert pet cause here).



Yea, I know, as McCain said, the economy isn't bad, people are just whining. Do you really wonder why the mass-exodus and the bringing out of new voters to oust the ubber-compassionate Republicans? Please, keep it going.

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The sheeple can be led to whatever issue you want. Today's flavor is health care and health care financing. All that has accomplished so far is to bring a whole lot of people into the fray who haven't got a clue what they are talking about.



47M people w/o coverage, not sure what there is to consider past that. Most people have been turned off by the HMO's, so refform to cover all issues is necessary.

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If we see the end of a party or parties, most likely we would see one or both morph into something similar, with maybe a little less acrimonious bickering.



He says with a 60-seat majoroty in the senate, something that hasn't been seen in 30 years. This denial that people need HC reform, that the Republicans are out of fashion is real. Now, might it change? Sure. Am I saying the Repubs are done for sure? No. I just stated that if peopel get HC and are happy with it, that might create a trend of voting out anyone that might interfere with it.

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We are way past the point where Libertarian philosophies would ever be embraced - people as a whole do not want that level of personal responsibility.



And the level of inhumanity.

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As for the definition, probably the same place bill did - a dictionary. You might want to pick one up, sometime.



Just that it was verbatim that of the one Bill gave. Not to mention you once again missused it.

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"Except cash" isn't an exaggeration?

No problem, Lucky - next time, instead of trying to be reasonably polite, I'll just say you're lying through your teeth.



The point asserted was that the subject in the discussion had no reason not to buy insurance. I replied by saying, "Except cash." Not only is that not an expression, it's not an exaggeration. How did I exaggerate? How is; Except cash and figure of speech?

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I don't give a rat's ass what you 'dismiss' or not.



And you don't care about posting factual data with citations.

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I don't give a flying FUCK what your "standard" is. The information is on the IRS website - there's even a link on their homepage. If you're too lazy or mentally challenged to type it into your browser and go there, then you're not getting the fucking data.



Exactly, as I stated, your piont, your duty to post a direct link. You failed to, you lose, my data stands. The top 1% hold 34% of all wealth, not 22% as your mystery link provides.

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So, show me in the article where he couldn't pay for a doctor's visit or a checkup at a health clinic out of pocket, like you said up-thread.

What's that? The article didn't?



This was a single case to make a reference as to represent the ills of the US in regard to HC in a trend. It is not an argument to perfect a cure for AIDS. If you chose to dismiss it as it being too vague, good for you. You could demand detail after another and claim some sort of silly victory if 1 detail were unavailable. You could assert that OJ was guilty even tho acquitted. I could claim you are wrong, he was acquitted. Sensibly we have to look at the court of common sense; OJ kille dhis wife and there are millions of scenarios out there where people are legitimately w/o HC. Is it this guy or not? WHo cares, some/all of his issues are repesent in millions of Americans.

You're getting mad because your point has been burried. Class disparity is immense, top 1% hold 34% of all wealth, bottom 80% hold ~15%, people are w/o HC for very relevant reasons.

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I shouldn't have to pay for them cause I was prepared and they weren't or because I work hard and they don't or because I am responsible and they aren't.



Explain to me how you would pay for other's HC in any way.

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and if things get tough for me I don't expect or want anyone else being force to pay for my situation either!



Riiiiight, the halls are filled with those words..... oh no, let me die, I'm broke. :S

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There is no right to healthcare!



There is no abbolition against it.

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There is no right to happiness on the the freedom to pursue it!!!!!



Ever hear of the Bill of Rights? I know, kind of obscure as a reference.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

Step in it much?

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Ever hear of the Bill of Rights? I know, kind of obscure as a reference.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness



I don't remember reading that anywhere in the Bill of Rights. Which amendment would that be?
Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

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As for the definition, probably the same place bill did - a dictionary. You might want to pick one up, sometime.



Just that it was verbatim that of the one Bill gave. Not to mention you once again missused it.



Yeah, about that - no. You used exaggeration to state your case - that can be called hyperbole.

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"Except cash" isn't an exaggeration?

No problem, Lucky - next time, instead of trying to be reasonably polite, I'll just say you're lying through your teeth.



The point asserted was that the subject in the discussion had no reason not to buy insurance. I replied by saying, "Except cash." Not only is that not an expression, it's not an exaggeration. How did I exaggerate? How is; Except cash and figure of speech?



No, the point stated (I should know, since I'm the one that typed it) is that there was nothing preventing him from being a cash patient at the doctor. NOTHING to do with buying or not buying insurance.

You stated yourself in your later tapdancing that there was no way to know if the person had money or not - therefore, you exaggerated.

Or, since you so dislike the word 'hyperbole' - lied through your teeth.

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I don't give a rat's ass what you 'dismiss' or not.



And you don't care about posting factual data with citations.



Your inability or refusal to verify the data doesn't make it false, sorry.

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I don't give a flying FUCK what your "standard" is. The information is on the IRS website - there's even a link on their homepage. If you're too lazy or mentally challenged to type it into your browser and go there, then you're not getting the fucking data.



Exactly, as I stated, your piont, your duty to post a direct link. You failed to, you lose, my data stands. The top 1% hold 34% of all wealth, not 22% as your mystery link provides.



I have NO duty to you - I've given you the website and told you where to look - go do it or pound sand, I don't care which.

As for your stats, I think I'll take the IRS data over your university, thanks.

Speaking of which, here's some more IRS data for you. They have new info up for 07 vs the 05 data I quoted before:

Top 1% has 22.83% of total income. They pay 40.42% of the tax.
Top 5% has 37.44% of total income. They pay 60.63% of the tax.
Top 10% has 48.05% of total income. They pay 71.22% of the tax.
Top 25% has 68.71% of total income. They pay 86.59% of the tax.
Top 50% has 87.74% of total income. They pay 97.11% of the tax.

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Dude - we're having to pump in light and air to you as it is - time to stop digging. You talked shit and got bit - get over it and quit trying to save face.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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And you are taking one case and making it a supporting arguement for your agenda.



No, there are 5 and they are just the more obvious types. There are also many other reasons for legitimately not being able to aford HC ins.

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I typically provide info on trends, patterns, and consequences we see as the result of behaviors of a large population (because that is what insurance is).



Provide it when, where?

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You give us a tear-jerker anecdote, with less than full information. Sorry if that sounds cold, but one incomplete story from a questionable source means very little. If anything, it raises suspicions.



And that's the point I've been making, this is a simple scenario of one man's case of not being bale to afford HC and the mess he's now n. If you chose to blame him 100%, if you chose to pick it apart, or whatever you want, go ahead. It is an article of 5 'types' of cases where a person could finf themselves out of HC. It's not a peer-reviewed journal for Ph.D's to pick apart. I'm sure tehre are plenty of those out there, like the one Harvard and UNLV worked together on to determine that > 50% of all bankruptcies were as a result of medical bills. Those are designed to pick apart, not a simple USA today articel detailing 5 typical scenarios of people w/o HC.

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Think of it this way, when you see a skydiving story in the mainstream media, how well is it reported? How clear are the facts? Do you get the whole story? How many solid conclusions can you draw based on the story and what you (or any of us) know about skydiving?



Would you like me to dig up some peer-reviewed journals on the issue of people w/o HC? Would you really read them? Of course not, so since the best we can do is to get a quick read, take it for what's it's worth.

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That is how I feel about mainstream coverage of this topic. It is for the most part a pile of uninformed BS. And the public's willingness to eat it up is more a testament to their willingness to be led to the trough than anything.



Then describe for us the kind of lowlife deplorable scurge that would go w/o HC ins, in your opinion.

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Yesterday it was global warming, and the mainstream got on the bandwagon full force, and the public all became experts and pontificated endlessly - mostly parroting someone else's BS. Today it is health care. What will it be tommorow?



Yea, again, McCain's 'whiners' comment comes to mind. Keep minimizing the plight of teh poor in this country, keep watching your representatives fall. Perhaps, this could be the falling of the Republican Party, the problem is that there would have to be an alternate party that made more sense to oppose the Dems and there isn't one.

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Ever hear of the Bill of Rights? I know, kind of obscure as a reference.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

Step in it much?
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Good catch...I typed "on" instead of "only", therefore I intended it to read, "There is no right to happiness only the freedom to pursue it!"

So, as you have so kindly pointed out that is exactly what it says, not that we have the right to be happy but only to pursue happyness!

***There is no abbolition against it.


In reality there is!! The constitution enumerates what the federal government can do. Therefore, if it is not stated as something it can do then that means it can't.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Notice it says the powers NOT delegated to the United States by the Constitution..... That means that if the constitution doesn't say they can then they can't!
Here is a simple example: If your mom told you to go to the store and buy milk and bread and you brought milk, bread, and ice cream then you didn't do what was asked of you! Your mom does not have to say "Buy milk and bread and don't buy ice cream, cake, pie, steak, chicken, chips, soup, candy bars, etc..... She need to only tell you what you can buy and that ultimately excludes everything else. Lets make a simple math equation out of it just like you learned in school when learning to do word problems. Buy milk + buy bread = did what mom said. Therefore buy milk + buy bread + buy ice cream doesn't = did what mom said. Its just like 1+2=3 but 1+2+4 doesn't = 3 or 1+2+5 doesn't = 3
Its that simple!

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