cliffwhite 0 #1 September 22, 2009 Seven former directors of the CIA recently requested that President Obama shut down new investigations of the treatment of "terrorism" suspects. Something we all know and have known for some time (perhaps since the Spanish Inquisition) is that torture doesn't get you actionable intelligence, torture gets the torturedto say what ever he believes the torturers want to hear . The tortured will say what ever they think will stop the toture. So why did we torture? Could it be that we needed someone to admit to planning 9-11? Well now that the 9-11 commission has found out that much of the information they were presented by the Bush regime as to who was responsible for 9-11 was actually information gained through torture, the majority of that commision don't believe in the veracity of their own report. Do you? Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #2 September 22, 2009 that's what.... 3 today? 4? Off your meds again? (munching popcorn...)-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #3 September 22, 2009 Quotethat's what.... 3 today? 4? Off your meds again? (munching popcorn...) if you haven't got anything to say - don't QuoteThe CIA's harsh interrogation program likely damaged the brain and memory functions of terrorist suspects, diminishing their physical ability to provide the detailed information the spy agency sought, according to a new scientific paper. The paper scrutinizes the harsh techniques used by the CIA under the Bush administration through the lens of neurobiology. Researchers concluded that the harsh methods were biologically counterproductive to eliciting quality information because prolonged stress harms the brain's ability to retain and recall information. "Solid scientific evidence on how repeated and extreme stress and pain affect memory and executive functions (such as planning or forming intentions) suggests these techniques are unlikely to do anything other than the opposite of that intended by coercive or enhanced interrogation," according to the paper published Monday in the scientific journal, "Trends in Cognitive Science: Science and Society." In the paper, Shane O'Mara, a professor at Ireland's Trinity College Institute of Neuroscience, wrote that the severe interrogation techniques appear based on "folk psychology" — a layman's idea of how the brain works as opposed to science-based understanding of memory and cognitive function. The list of techniques the CIA used included prolonged sleep deprivation — six days in at least one instance — being chained in painful positions, exploiting prisoners' phobias, and waterboarding, a form of simulated drowning that President Barack Obama has called torture. Three CIA prisoners were waterboarded, two of them extensively. http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/09/21-5stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #4 September 22, 2009 Well the thread didn't have any thing new to say, just a repeat the last 5 or 6 threads about Torture. Although I think it interesting that the SI was used as a research base given the lack of credible (by todays standards) science back then.An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfitz 0 #5 September 22, 2009 QuoteQuotethat's what.... 3 today? 4? Off your meds again? (munching popcorn...) if you haven't got anything to say - don't dreamdancer, you had to be laughing when you typed that line. Other than cut and paste, you never have anything to say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #6 September 22, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuotethat's what.... 3 today? 4? Off your meds again? (munching popcorn...) if you haven't got anything to say - don't dreamdancer, you had to be laughing when you typed that line. Other than cut and paste, you never have anything to say. I thought it was funny. Gotta have a good laugh from time to time. Sure hope I cause a few chuckles for y'all." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 426 #7 September 22, 2009 Quote Something we all know and have known for some time (perhaps since the Spanish Inquisition) is that torture doesn't get you actionable intelligence, torture gets the torturedto say what ever he believes the torturers want to hear . The tortured will say what ever they think will stop the toture. That's funny. Waterboarding (if you choose to consider that torture) made KSM sing like a bird about future attacks that were later confirmed and thwarted. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,076 #8 September 22, 2009 >Waterboarding (if you choose to consider that torture) made KSM sing >like a bird about future attacks that were later confirmed and thwarted. And which attacks were those? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 426 #9 September 23, 2009 Quote>Waterboarding (if you choose to consider that torture) made KSM sing >like a bird about future attacks that were later confirmed and thwarted. And which attacks were those? According to the CIA, KSM gave up information on a 9-11 style attack on Heathrow airport in London, a hijacking and destruction of 12 airliners over the Pacific, and an attack on Los Angeles International airport. He also coughed up (excuse the expression) information on as many as 70 al-Qaeda operatives around the world. All three of those attack plans were later confirmed with the arrest and interrigation of terrorists that KSM outed. Any more questions?Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,107 #10 September 23, 2009 Quote Quote >Waterboarding (if you choose to consider that torture) made KSM sing >like a bird about future attacks that were later confirmed and thwarted. And which attacks were those? According to the CIA... Well, it MUST be true then. The CIA never lies or deceives.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 426 #11 September 23, 2009 Quote Quote Quote >Waterboarding (if you choose to consider that torture) made KSM sing >like a bird about future attacks that were later confirmed and thwarted. And which attacks were those? According to the CIA... Well, it MUST be true then. The CIA never lies or deceives. When you don't have a valid reply, just use some sarcasm. Liberal playbook page 164. Actually that information came from declassified internal CIA documents, so I guess if they were lying it was to themselves. Hmm.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #12 September 23, 2009 He is just mad because they would rather tie their shoes. If anyone does not understand the phrase, do not ask me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,107 #13 September 23, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote >Waterboarding (if you choose to consider that torture) made KSM sing >like a bird about future attacks that were later confirmed and thwarted. And which attacks were those? According to the CIA... Well, it MUST be true then. The CIA never lies or deceives. When you don't have a valid reply, just use some sarcasm. Liberal playbook page 164. Actually that information came from declassified internal CIA documents, so I guess if they were lying it was to themselves. Hmm. Must be true then, since the CIA has NEVER engaged in any kind of deception.Bridge for sale, cheap.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 426 #14 September 23, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote >Waterboarding (if you choose to consider that torture) made KSM sing >like a bird about future attacks that were later confirmed and thwarted. And which attacks were those? According to the CIA... Well, it MUST be true then. The CIA never lies or deceives. When you don't have a valid reply, just use some sarcasm. Liberal playbook page 164. Actually that information came from declassified internal CIA documents, so I guess if they were lying it was to themselves. Hmm. Must be true then, since the CIA has NEVER engaged in any kind of deception.Bridge for sale, cheap. You're repeating yourself. But that's what happens when you have nothing new to say.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #15 September 23, 2009 Quote Waterboarding (if you choose to consider that torture) made KSM sing like a bird about future attacks that were later confirmed and thwarted. Quote Actually that information came from declassified internal CIA documents, Can you point to these as I am not aware of them? Perhaps something new has been declassified of which I am not aware. Unless you can site some new information, as we've gone over before, there is no publically available information supporting the assertion that waterboarding produced what you assert. To the contrary, if you review the DefenseLink transcript listing of things he confessed to (that have been publically released) – from a plot to assassinate former President Carter to a plot to kill Pope John Paul II to the February 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center – he confessed to everything. Some of the things he claimed to have been responsible would have required him to be in multiple places at the same time. I only somewhat facetiously ask Was he asked if he was on the grassy knoll in Dallas in November 1963? Khalid Sheikh Mohammed also compares himself to President George Washington – is that what you consider usable information? The single largest source of usble information from KSM was obtained from a laptop found with him. The LA plot was already known and had been obtained through traditional interrogation means of other individuals. In your list of information you allege was obtained from KSM, I think that you may have conflated KSM with the information that was obtained by the FBI using traditional, non-torture interrogation means from Abu Zubaydah and others. /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #16 September 23, 2009 Quote According to the CIA... Well, it MUST be true then. The CIA never lies or deceives. Then you must not believe their report on torture that you posted about, either...right?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
