warpedskydiver 0 #26 September 22, 2009 QuoteTrade places with me for a day. Then critisize me. Do not confuse the trolls with things like fact and personal experience. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fossg 0 #27 September 22, 2009 Click on my bio Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #28 September 22, 2009 QuoteGood point. "Considered" was a piss poor choice of words. but how does one defend against that kind of thing? Tell me, ever been to the California Aqueduct? Yeah. Devote resources to protect it. Yep. This isn't bullshit, cliff, these are choices to make. Ya know, lawrocket, those are tough decisions to make. I mean we are spending so much time making sure 70 year old ladies don't board an airplane with knitting needles and no one takes more than 3 ounces of shampoo on board and stand in line to be searched and prodded while anyone with a van and a handheld grenade launcher can stop on the freeway and take down a plane coming in low and slow. But how often have we been attacked ? Once in recent memory huh? And what if that attack wasn't actually by foreign enemies but orchestrated by those at the very top echelons of our government? You yourself see so many ways a terrorist could attack us. We are an easy target with our porous borders and our freedoms which create soft targets. But nothing has happenned in 8 years. No mall bombs, no movie theaters , none of the easy soft targets. No more attacks since that day when we watched as the towers fell straight down. A tribute to the fantastic anti-terror campaign by the Bush administration, or a clue as to who actually orchestrated the attacks? Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,173 #29 September 22, 2009 >So you think ,Bill, that the "finest fighting force " in the world were just >"dicking around" when the nation was "under attack". OK. So what's your explanation? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #30 September 22, 2009 QuoteIs shit like this not considered trolling? It is if this is considered censorship. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #31 September 22, 2009 QuoteClick on my bio So you are Army? Sorry but I don't know what NG means. So tell me ,fossg, how would you rate our militarys' responce on 9-11? As a force ,do you deserve an A++ with a star? Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #32 September 22, 2009 Quote Sorry but I don't know what NG means. National GuardMath tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #34 September 22, 2009 Quote Click on my bio Sure, I'll trade places, I love old movies. Let's see, you say this thread is trolling, you are a proud (not sarcasm), sworn military member SWORN TO UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION and you don't find it within the spirit of our country to make peaceful criticisms? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #35 September 22, 2009 Quoteyou betcha Not that it's the military's fault and not taht I'm trying to tangent, but how about Katrina's response? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #36 September 22, 2009 Quote>So you think ,Bill, that the "finest fighting force " in the world were just >"dicking around" when the nation was "under attack". OK. So what's your explanation? I believe the order was to stand down. Note the military guy was calling it out. 50 miles,30 miles, 10, does the order still stand? If the order had been to take down the plane it would have been downed. If there wasn't a plane in position to intercept there would have been no reason for the question, "does the order still stand?" The order from Vice President Dick Cheney was for the fighters to stand down. IMO Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,173 #37 September 22, 2009 >I believe the order was to stand down. So you believe the reports were altered. Who would be in on such a conspiracy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #38 September 22, 2009 QuoteThe order from President Dick Cheney was for the fighters to stand down. IMO Fixed it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fossg 0 #39 September 22, 2009 The non response to Katrina was criminal. I was there for the aftermath Every day I get up and do my job with other soldiers. We do our job to the best of our abilities. It irks me to be judged by someone who has not gone through what we go through Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #40 September 22, 2009 Quoteyou betcha You have to be shitting me Mr. fossg! You believe that the militarys' responce on 9-11 was acceptable performance? Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #41 September 22, 2009 Quote I'd probably have jet fighters on alert at all times . Probably an automated missle system on the roof So you would shoot down an aircraft over a huge meto area? I'm pretty sure the hijackers won't fly over water out of courtesy. Alright, let's think about something here. What would you rather sacrifice; a thousand or so civillians on the ground, or a group of people that swore to defend at the cost of their lives? Personally, if I had a choice, I would rather the aircraft hit the Pentagon. QuoteOH!!!! We had all that !!!! Good. Why don't you instruct all of us how all of those things actually work and thier capabilities and limitations. You seem to have some insider info, share the wealth._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #42 September 22, 2009 Quote>I believe the order was to stand down. So you believe the reports were altered. Who would be in on such a conspiracy? No . The commision report includes the sworn testimony of Norman Mineta ,Secretary of Transportation on9-11-01. Here again is the transcript; MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" 2 I believe the order from the Vice President to the military was to stand down and allow the plane its' target. Nothing else makes sense considering our military capability and the young man asking "does the order still stand". Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #43 September 22, 2009 Quote The non response to Katrina was criminal. I was there for the aftermath Every day I get up and do my job with other soldiers. We do our job to the best of our abilities. It irks me to be judged by someone who has not gone through what we go through Firstly, quit the bravado. I was military and I honor the military, not always military leaders at various levels. And even if I wasn't former military I would still have the right to an opinion. Again, Bush fucked that up by himself, I have ZERO doubt that had he called in the Guard, Reserve or active duty that they would have saved many lives. I have no doubt that military guys do what they're told to extreme measures for little pay and often thankless aftermaths. I recall in basic I had to piss, dress and be in formation in 4 minutes down a large set of stairs as well. I wish I had that discipline now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #44 September 22, 2009 QuoteQuoteyou betcha You have to be shitting me Mr. fossg! You believe that the militarys' responce on 9-11 was acceptable performance? Blues, Cliff Let's seperate the military members from the command structure and find the blame if any. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #45 September 22, 2009 QuoteQuote I'd probably have jet fighters on alert at all times . Probably an automated missle system on the roof So you would shoot down an aircraft over a huge meto area? I'm pretty sure the hijackers won't fly over water out of courtesy. Alright, let's think about something here. What would you rather sacrifice; a thousand or so civillians on the ground, or a group of people that swore to defend at the cost of their lives? Personally, if I had a choice, I would rather the aircraft hit the Pentagon. QuoteOH!!!! We had all that !!!! Good. Why don't you instruct all of us how all of those things actually work and thier capabilities and limitations. You seem to have some insider info, share the wealth. You know, I'm not all that bright , I admit that nanook. Thing is ,something I do know is that if some type aircraft flew toward the pentagon too close for comfort the automated defense system would kick in. I also realise that if a C-130 threw out some chaffe, maybe something which resembled very small parts of a commercial jetliner and a very hot flare, the missle system could be fooled into striking the very building it was supposed to protect. But like I say , I'm not too bright. Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #46 September 22, 2009 Quote I also realise that if a C-130 threw out some chaffe, maybe something which resembled very small parts of a commercial jetliner and a very hot flare, the missle system could be fooled into striking the very building it was supposed to protect. But like I say , I'm not too bright. Blues, Cliff wow... a new one... I knew if I stayed up long enough I'd get a nugget to relay around the coffee pot tomorrow morning... "so heard another conspiracy theory last night... don't take a drink... this one's a doozy!" /out of popcorn-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #47 September 22, 2009 Things to consider. Dulles is only 20 miles away from the Pentagon. Also, a missile that would follow heat would more than likely not dream of considering the Pentagon building as a heat source to lock on to._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #48 September 22, 2009 QuoteI would expect that they would always be on guard even without the knowledge that hijacked planes had been used twice3 that morning as weapons against american landmarks an hour or so earlier. Yeah, the CG carries several HAWK missile batteries in hip pocket. He just drops them where he needs them. It goes over REALLY well with the public, who piss their collective pants at the THOUGHT of someone with a gun.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #49 September 22, 2009 QuoteSo obviously they did consider taking down the plane. Was the standing order to take it down? If it was why didn't the military intercept it? Because at the time, US air defense policy was focused outside the CONUS. Any other stupid questions, 8 years after the fact?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #50 September 22, 2009 Quote A tribute to the fantastic anti-terror campaign by the Bush administration, or a clue as to who actually orchestrated the attacks? Oh, yay....another "troofer" - just what we needed.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
