TomAiello 26 #26 September 14, 2009 You honestly think there's such a thing as a "good" war? War is the last, most terrible alternative. It's never "good". Just, very occasionally, "less bad".-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #27 September 14, 2009 No, I don't think war is good. Having been in one, I think I know a little about it. I put the words in quotes to try to be pithy. Either way, I think you knew what I meant. And yes, the war in Afghanstan, from just about every perspective, is "less bad" than the war in Iraq. IMHO. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #28 September 14, 2009 Quote Quote here I thought he was up at night worrying about our economy and stuff. Silly me! I think he sleeps like a baby at night Defecating upon himself? That is NASTY I wonder if he finger paints on crib. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #29 September 14, 2009 >War is the last, most terrible alternative. It's never "good". Just, >very occasionally, "less bad". Agreed 100%. Our military retaliation against Al Qaeda/Afghanistan was not a good option, but it was one of the lesser of several evils. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #30 September 14, 2009 Getting back to the OP, I think it speaks volumes about how distant people are from each other. There are clearly people on one political side who flat out do not understand what people on the other political side actually believe. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #31 September 14, 2009 QuoteThere are clearly people on one political side who flat out do not understand what people on the other political side actually believe. "understand"? Speedy - you are courteous and kind. I read it less kindly "refuses to" even try to understand "refuses to" acknowledge their legitimate viewpoint "refuses to" respect the other side's subjective viewpoint and yes - neither one of us indicates a single party, just the dynamics that apply to many from all parties ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #32 September 14, 2009 Quote Quote Quote here I thought he was up at night worrying about our economy and stuff. Silly me! I think he sleeps like a baby at night Defecating upon himself? That is NASTY I wonder if he finger paints on crib. you gotta admit - that would be a VERY deep and relaxing sleep if it went that far ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #33 September 14, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteWell fellow jumpers, that's at least according to Bin Laden in a tape shortly released after the anniversary of the September 11th attacks. For the Independents and Democrats that thought Obama was the key to world peace with leaders of the middle east and terrorists; What do you have to say now??? Even as Bin Laden states, they aren't going to stop their radical behavor because they don't respect Obama and he is powerless. Here is Bin Laden's quote: "reasonable people knew that Obama is a powerless man" Here is the big difference between Obama and Bush, "W" didn't give a shit about what radical islamic terrorists thought of him and so he kept the course to run them out of dodge like the rats they are. Obama is worried about a popularity contest with the world and it gets us no where. Oh.... and don't be "haters" on Fox because they at least had the balls to have the story unlike the leftist media which always sweeps stuff under the rug because news like this hurts Obama's image. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,549780,00.html A year ago you would have called OBL an idiotic maniac with nothing important or valid to say, now you post his quotes and worship/idolize him. Time does change everything. Talk about flip-flopping. I maintain that OBL is an idiotic maniac with nothing valid to say; I did then and I do now. Yes, very sad that his politics are such that he uses the words of a terrorist who has killed 1000s of fellow citizens as an anti-Obama message. What is the next low will the right wingers will sink to? And the irony of flip-flopping, the right used to claim it was a leftist protocol. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,595 #34 September 14, 2009 Quote I'll agree with your clarification - 1 restrict only to posters here - 2 further restrict that to those we both subjectively deem "reasonable" to our standards I wasn't applying the restriction of reasonableness to the restricted group of posters here, I was only applying it to the group of everyone else in the country/world. Even the certifiably insane people who post here don't believe SkyChimp's strawman, but there may be a few in the outside world. So no-one here can really say what the people who thought that (the OP's strawman) will do now, because a) no-one here thought that, and b) it would be folly to try and predict what the handful of people in the outside world who thought that will do now, because those people are probably crazy, and crazy people might do anything. Which is a very roundabout way of saying, the OP doesn't know what he's talking about.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #35 September 14, 2009 QuoteHere is the big difference between Obama and Bush, "W" didn't give a shit about what radical islamic terrorists thought of him and so he kept the course to run them out of dodge like the rats they are. Ah, a comment that reveals the real crux of the problems in the ME. "Run them out of Dodge." Do people forget that it is THEIR home? I mean, I know most have gotten used to thinking of it as the whole world's oilfield, but it is somebody else's home country - not just our petrol supply warehouse. Most of what is wrong with the ME is wrong just with the ME - though a few Western Fundies sure do give them a run when they ban books, blow up abortion clinics and murder physicians. But the ME fundies are bombing and shooting and beheading hundreds each year, so former Kansas school board members - get with the program. Slackers. There was a piece from The Onion that demonstrated very well what the main problem in the ME is. I'll see if I can link to it or copy it here." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #36 September 14, 2009 QuoteQuoteDo you find it somewhat hypocritical when the right wing simultaneously condemns Obama for fighting the war in Afghanistan and not fighting enough? Depends on what you mean by right wing. I know lots of people here have told me I'm right wing, and I don't think I'm doing that. On the other hand, do you find it hypocritical that folks who were anti-war back when Bush was in the white house are now suddenly pro-war when Obama is in charge? Libertarian ideals are fiscally right and civilly left, but they, in every case I've seen except 1, seem to strongly favor fiscally stingy political ideals over civil rights ideals. Ron Paul worked for Reagan before and many Libertarians have Republcian connections. I say that a Libertarian is a disgruntled Republcian and I think that fits in most Libertarians. Who is pro-war as a leftist? I think the real issues are in Afghanistan over Iraq, but I want out of all of the ME. Let's face it, after healthcare passes or fails, we're loking at harsh tax increases and and an exodus from the ME war. If Obama throws that out now healthcare will never have a shot. It's a political strategy, but if all goes well, healthcare will pass, the ME War will end soon and taxes will be raised. The deficit will start to shrink and the debt increase will fall, just as with Clinton. I think that's the obvious plan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #37 September 14, 2009 Quote Quote ....he kept the course to run them out of dodge ... Indeed. Mission accomplished and all that? It's Dodge folks; with a fucking capital D. As in Dodge City. JFC, no wonder the rest of the world hates us. And no wonder Kansas seems like it belongs on another planet, they hate us too!" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #38 September 14, 2009 Quote Quote here I thought he was up at night worrying about our economy and stuff. Silly me! I think he sleeps like a baby at night Are you saying he wakes up with poopy pants and vomit smeared all over his face?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #39 September 14, 2009 QuoteI say that a Libertarian is a disgruntled Republcian and I think that fits in most Libertarians. Your consistent disdain and minimization of Libertarian philosophy aside... and I wouldn't say that Libertarian is civilly left - it's civilly center (neutral - as in leave us alone). "left" is just more civil activism and interference of a different kind than the active civil interference of the right. Civil manipulation and interference of the religion(s) of the left isn't really any different, from a fiscal perspective than the civil manipulation and interfernce of the (formal) religion(s) of the right. I'd agree that many Libertarian's are disgruntled Republican's (because the Republican's are not, any more, fiscally conservative - they are driven by their selfish social agenda) and - many Libertarian's are also disgruntled Democrats (because the Democrats are not fiscally conservative - they are driven by their selfish social agenda) hey - how about that? fiscally responsible people are torqued about the irresponsible parties of both sides - and arguing about which party is 'less irresponsible' is interesting, but doesn't really help the cause. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #40 September 14, 2009 QuoteQuoteFor the Independents and Democrats that thought Obama was the key to world peace with leaders of the middle east and terrorists; What do you have to say now??? I say, get a clue. No one - no-one - thought that Bin Laden would come over all peace, love and Age of Aquarius if Obama was elected. It is, quite frankly, very stupid to suggest suh a thing. That you think Obama's desire to raise the perception of America in the rest of the world means winning over mad fanatics like Bin Laden only demonstrates your inability to grasp what he actually means when he says that. I wonder what bin Laden's sign is? Think maybe he is a Virgo? You know, that is one line of experts we have not tapped into during this entire ME thing. Or maybe we should consult one of those people that do the Tarot thing. We kidnap bin Laden and have someone do the Tarot thing for him. We of course stack the deck so that his future is going back home to Saudi Arabia and attending veterinary school (or something like that). Problem solved." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #41 September 14, 2009 Quote Quote Quote here I thought he was up at night worrying about our economy and stuff. Silly me! I think he sleeps like a baby at night Are you saying he wakes up with poopy pants and vomit smeared all over his face? well, you can find interns to satisfy any type of desire in DC - they say - as long as you are in a position of power.... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #42 September 14, 2009 QuoteHas America been attacked since? Don't side track off of the topic..... Oh, this is on topic, in a way you can't possibly fucking imagine. Our dogs like to run thru the woods, which is way cool for them, because, ya know, . . . they are dogs. Problem is, there is a good amount of nasty thistle out there, and it was either keep them shaved to the skin, or spend hours removing burrs from the little buggers. Our fuzzy dogs plus thistle is the equivalent of permanent Velcro. I did not want to spend a small fortune on dog grooming, so instead wwent on a campaign to eradicate the thistle. Bear with me just a bit longer. I remember it well because I took a couple days off work to start spraying all the thistle within our 3 acre fenced perimeter; and it was right after 9/11; not a plane in the normally very busy sky. Well! Obvious isn't it? Not a single attack since I started my Thistle Eradication Program. Logic can be made to prove anything you want when you only do half the work." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #43 September 14, 2009 QuoteHas America been attacked since? Don't side track off of the topic..... Another possible explanation - the circus has stopped coming to town. Betwen PETA and professional sports teams (those guys are deep into covert actions to put an end to anything that would compete with them for your entertainment dollar), they have managed to shut the circus out. Since then there have been no more attacks. You don't believe me? Go ahead and load up a clown car. By your logic you could be toying with the destiny of our country." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #44 September 14, 2009 QuoteYour consistent disdain and minimization of Libertarian philosophy aside... and I wouldn't say that Libertarian is civilly left - it's civilly center (neutral - as in leave us alone). If you boiled Libertarianism down to a single phrase, that would probably be it. Leave the people the fuck alone! We do not need to be babysat from cradle to grave by the know-it-all assholes from either party. We want the government to do as little as possible while still preserving some sort of civilized social contract. Defend our borders, provide some mechanical infrastructure, and maybe a little record keeping. That's it. Other than that, get the fuck away. It is truly staggering when you think about how comprehensive "social" programs have become. Like it or not, want it or not, need it or not - there is a social program to cover every fucking minute detail of our lives. So comprehensive that a person can have absolutely no ability, no desire, no motivations, no concerns, no cares, no clue - and still somehow exist, much less be seen as a valuable member of society." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #45 September 14, 2009 It is funny how people that can't see anything beyond their own narrow politics can't seem to keep from confusing Libertarianism from that tragedy called "compassionate conservatism" compassionate conservatism is just liberalism on credit where liberalism is just making someone else pay for it up front both want their social programs and neither want to pay for them ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #46 September 14, 2009 QuoteHas America been attacked since? _____________________________________________ Of course if 9-11 was an inside job that isn't saying much is it? And I'm pretty certain Osama died in December '01 of kidney failure so who's making these Bin Ladin tapes? Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #47 September 15, 2009 QuoteWell fellow jumpers, that's at least according to Bin Laden in a tape shortly released after the anniversary of the September 11th attacks. For the Independents and Democrats that thought Obama was the key to world peace with leaders of the middle east and terrorists; What do you have to say now??? Even as Bin Laden states, they aren't going to stop their radical behavor because they don't respect Obama and he is powerless. Here is Bin Laden's quote: "reasonable people knew that Obama is a powerless man" Here is the big difference between Obama and Bush, "W" didn't give a shit about what radical islamic terrorists thought of him and so he kept the course to run them out of dodge like the rats they are. Obama is worried about a popularity contest with the world and it gets us no where. Oh.... and don't be "haters" on Fox because they at least had the balls to have the story unlike the leftist media which always sweeps stuff under the rug because news like this hurts Obama's image. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,549780,00.html Foxnews.com currently has an article on its front page about Obama supposedly calling Kanye West a "jackass". By comparison, CNN.com is reporting something that's perhaps a bit more relevent to this thread. How violently do you think the Limbaugh/Beck/Savage types will flip-flop? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jclalor 12 #48 September 15, 2009 QuoteHere is the big difference between Obama and Bush, "W" didn't give a shit about what radical islamic terrorists thought of him and so he kept the course to run them out of dodge like the rats they are. Obama is worried about a popularity contest with the world and it gets us no where. What is diiferent from the Bush policy on the middle east and the current policy? Are you suggesting Obama is being light on the Taliban or Bin Laden to win a popularity contest? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #49 September 15, 2009 Quote QuoteHere is the big difference between Obama and Bush, "W" didn't give a shit about what radical islamic terrorists thought of him and so he kept the course to run them out of dodge like the rats they are. Obama is worried about a popularity contest with the world and it gets us no where. What is diiferent from the Bush policy on the middle east and the current policy? Are you suggesting Obama is being light on the Taliban or Bin Laden to win a popularity contest? I think Obama inherited this mess, a mess he voted against from the beginning of his Senate days and he doesn't want to do anything hasty. Obama has his agenda, healthcare reform, he wants to get whatever resolve on that that he can before he touches anything else. Once that is done, probably late this year, then he will move on to taxes, the ME and other issues. It's hard to blame the guy for a war, a mess he voted against and now has in his lap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyChimp 0 #50 September 15, 2009 QuoteQuoteDo you find it somewhat hypocritical when the right wing simultaneously condemns Obama for fighting the war in Afghanistan and not fighting enough? Depends on what you mean by right wing. I know lots of people here have told me I'm right wing, and I don't think I'm doing that. On the other hand, do you find it hypocritical that folks who were anti-war back when Bush was in the white house are now suddenly pro-war when Obama is in charge? Right you are Tom!!! I waited for a while to post so I could see how many hypos came out of the closet still living in denial. This link below isn't directly on Obama but he was a community organizer for ACORN. See this link below. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/14/senate-votes-cut-acorn-housing-funding Any by the way to the other folks in this thread (kallend); Why is it that Fox is one of the few networks to report on this. As of 6:49am EST on CNN and it's not even on the their website. Here are the Senators that voted NAY to keep the funding to ACORN. Big surpise that both Durbin and Burris from IL voted to keep the funding. Durbin (D-IL), Nay Burris (D-IL), Nay Gillibrand (D-NY), Nay Leahy (D-VT), Nay Whitehouse (D-RI), Nay Sanders (I-VT), Nay Casey (D-PA), Nay http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=1&vote=00275 Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
livendive 8 #47 September 15, 2009 QuoteWell fellow jumpers, that's at least according to Bin Laden in a tape shortly released after the anniversary of the September 11th attacks. For the Independents and Democrats that thought Obama was the key to world peace with leaders of the middle east and terrorists; What do you have to say now??? Even as Bin Laden states, they aren't going to stop their radical behavor because they don't respect Obama and he is powerless. Here is Bin Laden's quote: "reasonable people knew that Obama is a powerless man" Here is the big difference between Obama and Bush, "W" didn't give a shit about what radical islamic terrorists thought of him and so he kept the course to run them out of dodge like the rats they are. Obama is worried about a popularity contest with the world and it gets us no where. Oh.... and don't be "haters" on Fox because they at least had the balls to have the story unlike the leftist media which always sweeps stuff under the rug because news like this hurts Obama's image. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,549780,00.html Foxnews.com currently has an article on its front page about Obama supposedly calling Kanye West a "jackass". By comparison, CNN.com is reporting something that's perhaps a bit more relevent to this thread. How violently do you think the Limbaugh/Beck/Savage types will flip-flop? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #48 September 15, 2009 QuoteHere is the big difference between Obama and Bush, "W" didn't give a shit about what radical islamic terrorists thought of him and so he kept the course to run them out of dodge like the rats they are. Obama is worried about a popularity contest with the world and it gets us no where. What is diiferent from the Bush policy on the middle east and the current policy? Are you suggesting Obama is being light on the Taliban or Bin Laden to win a popularity contest? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #49 September 15, 2009 Quote QuoteHere is the big difference between Obama and Bush, "W" didn't give a shit about what radical islamic terrorists thought of him and so he kept the course to run them out of dodge like the rats they are. Obama is worried about a popularity contest with the world and it gets us no where. What is diiferent from the Bush policy on the middle east and the current policy? Are you suggesting Obama is being light on the Taliban or Bin Laden to win a popularity contest? I think Obama inherited this mess, a mess he voted against from the beginning of his Senate days and he doesn't want to do anything hasty. Obama has his agenda, healthcare reform, he wants to get whatever resolve on that that he can before he touches anything else. Once that is done, probably late this year, then he will move on to taxes, the ME and other issues. It's hard to blame the guy for a war, a mess he voted against and now has in his lap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyChimp 0 #50 September 15, 2009 QuoteQuoteDo you find it somewhat hypocritical when the right wing simultaneously condemns Obama for fighting the war in Afghanistan and not fighting enough? Depends on what you mean by right wing. I know lots of people here have told me I'm right wing, and I don't think I'm doing that. On the other hand, do you find it hypocritical that folks who were anti-war back when Bush was in the white house are now suddenly pro-war when Obama is in charge? Right you are Tom!!! I waited for a while to post so I could see how many hypos came out of the closet still living in denial. This link below isn't directly on Obama but he was a community organizer for ACORN. See this link below. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/14/senate-votes-cut-acorn-housing-funding Any by the way to the other folks in this thread (kallend); Why is it that Fox is one of the few networks to report on this. As of 6:49am EST on CNN and it's not even on the their website. Here are the Senators that voted NAY to keep the funding to ACORN. Big surpise that both Durbin and Burris from IL voted to keep the funding. Durbin (D-IL), Nay Burris (D-IL), Nay Gillibrand (D-NY), Nay Leahy (D-VT), Nay Whitehouse (D-RI), Nay Sanders (I-VT), Nay Casey (D-PA), Nay http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=1&vote=00275 Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
