I Suppose We Should Thank Joe Wilson

[Bolas 5]

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They have access not only to the military's 133,500 uniformed health professionals, but cooperating private doctors as well whose fees are paid by the Department of Defense. It's high-quality care, too: surveys from 2007 and 2008 list TRICARE among "the best health insurer(s) in the nation" by customer satisfaction. Yet Wilson insists government-run health care is a problem.

Maybe he realizes that TRICARE and it's levels of coverage could not be scaled up to cover all effectively without private option balance.

In this case, gov't is acting like any other business offering its employees benefits.

Citizens are not employees. Employees earn their benefits.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[rushmc 23]

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>Glad you think I have that kind of power or influence.

You, alone, don't. But enough Joe Wilsons, or enough RushMC's, do. They set the tone of the party - and that's how people see it.

The republicans made a good decision condemning Wilson's outbursts. If they can start to jettison the other extremists in their party - the liars, the birthers, the "death panel" scaremongers - they may even have a fighting chance during the next election.

As they should and as I said, it was wrong. Wrong place wrong time. The timing does not make his position false however, as he has stated.

No, Obama will keep making Quale look like a genius because he thinks HE is one.

Obama is lieing out his ass. HE wants a public only option. HE wants to cover everyone. HE has stated it many times and very recently. The tapes dont lie. HE does, YOU belive him.

Fortunatly, the number believeing him are a changin rapidly. And will continue to do so IMO

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,095]

> The timing does not make his position false however, as he has stated.

Both republicans and democrats have agreed that it is indeed false.

>Obama is lieing out his ass.

Both republican and democratic news sources and fact checkers have agreed he was telling the truth. Indeed, the actual facts support him. In order to dispute him you have had to go to some bizarre extremes, like claiming that since some amendments to the bill were not adopted that that changes the meaning of the actual bill - but it's clear that's a hail mary pass that no one but the extremists believe.

Today's fact check from Politifacts:

============
When we look at all of this evidence, it seems that health reform leaves in place the status quo on illegal immigration, and certainly does not provide any new benefits particularly for illegal immigrants....

The best argument that we find that health reform would help illegal immigrants is that some might be able to purchase the public option -- if it passes, and it might not -- on the new health insurance exchange. They would purchase that at full cost. Obama's said "the reforms I’m proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally," which Wilson said was a "lie." Actually, Obama can make a pretty thorough case that reform doesn't apply to those here illegally. We don't find the public option argument enough to make the case that Obama "lied."

We rate Wilson's statement False.
================


>Fortunatly, the number believeing him are a changin rapidly.

Yes, they are.

=========
Before the speech:

Approval rating
Obama 52
Democratic party 39
Republican party 23

After the speech:

Approval rating
Obama 56
Democratic party 40
Republican party 22
==========

From people who watched the speech. Is the following statement true? (before speech/after speech)

Health care reform will get health care costs under control (42/64)
. . .allows you to keep your current insurance and doctor (54/80)
. . . will increase competition and lower prices (44/74)
. . . will give individuals and families more choice and control (36/60)
. . . will increase the deficit and raise taxes (62/40)
. . . will hurt seniors by cutting medicare (40/20)
===========

[rushmc 23]

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> The timing does not make his position false however, as he has stated.

Both republicans and democrats have agreed that it is indeed false.

They have agreed his outburst was wrong. Some a few many have said differnt, but not most of them

>Obama is lieing out his ass.

Both republican and democratic news sources and fact checkers have agreed he was telling the truth. Indeed, the actual facts support him. In order to dispute him you have had to go to some bizarre extremes, like claiming that since some amendments to the bill were not adopted that that changes the meaning of the actual bill - but it's clear that's a hail mary pass that no one but the extremists believe.

Today's fact check from Politifacts:

============
When we look at all of this evidence, it seems that health reform leaves in place the status quo on illegal immigration, and certainly does not provide any new benefits particularly for illegal immigrants....

The best argument that we find that health reform would help illegal immigrants is that some might be able to purchase the public option -- if it passes, and it might not -- on the new health insurance exchange. They would purchase that at full cost. Obama's said "the reforms I’m proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally," which Wilson said was a "lie." Actually, Obama can make a pretty thorough case that reform doesn't apply to those here illegally. We don't find the public option argument enough to make the case that Obama "lied."

We rate Wilson's statement False.
================


>Fortunatly, the number believeing him are a changin rapidly.

Yes, they are.

=========
Before the speech:

Approval rating
Obama 52
Democratic party 39
Republican party 23

After the speech:

Approval rating
Obama 56
Democratic party 40
Republican party 22
==========

From people who watched the speech. Is the following statement true? (before speech/after speech)

Health care reform will get health care costs under control (42/64)
. . .allows you to keep your current insurance and doctor (54/80)
. . . will increase competition and lower prices (44/74)
. . . will give individuals and families more choice and control (36/60)
. . . will increase the deficit and raise taxes (62/40)
. . . will hurt seniors by cutting medicare (40/20)
===========

Fun stuff billvon. Dont change nothing though.

Nice sites. The ones with the most meaning you avoid however.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,095]

> Some a few many have said differnt, but not most of them

I agree disagree with most some all none of what you said.

>Fun stuff billvon. Dont change nothing though.

Yep! You said that the number believing him are changing rapidly, and you were right.

[turtlespeed 226]

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As far as the congressional outburst - hell, if it's entertaining, then we should have a lot more of it. Maybe people will pay more attention. Next up, naked congressional mud-wrestling, followed by a drinking contest.

Drinking FIRST, it makes the mud wrestling more entertaining.

Yeah - we could bring Kennedy back for that.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 226]

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Should we also be denying illegal aliens the ability to buy car insurance because they're illegal?

Absolutely!

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Of course, that means that when we get into an accident with one, we're the ones who pay, rather than them.

Then they must be sentenced to and complete community service equal to the damage that they have caused then they get deported.

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Personally, I think that requiring everyone to pay for insurance is better. Really. It's a separate problem from illegal aliens -- if someone is illegal and buys something should they get to keep it?If they are here illegally, then NO. It should be surrendered and sold to recover funds needed for the process of deporting them. They can come back when you have a visa or another way to be legal.

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Right now there are companies that simply don't pay their day laborers, knowing that because most of them are illegal, there wno't be any repercussions. Does the fact that illegals are victimized make it OK?

No, the employer should be jailed. The illegal should be deported. The employer would then need to pay out his fine into the system to recover funds that the litigation against him causes, if not, he rots in jail.

***Note: This is not to say that I think that it's just fine for illegal aliens to be here. I don't. But not to require the same duties of them means that they will have fewer expenses than law-abiding citizens.

Wendy P.

So don't require them to do anything but receive deportation. allowing requirements to be fulfilled is the same as accepting them into society.

It seems that you are resigned to think that it is ok to accept that they will be here no matter what, and should have rules - THAT is the same as allowance.

If they are illegal - they get deported. Dropped off on the other side of the border. Washed hands clean of others debt and one less person that I have to support.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Rstanley0312 1]

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>YA, and Obama finally got called on it.

Yep. And we all know how that turned out. Wilson apologized and his opponent raked in the cash. Heck, if a few more republicans "call him out" the democrats could get a 70-seat majority. I'll bet there are a lot of democrats out there praying for more Joe Wilsons (and more RushMCs) to guarantee their victories in the next election.

That may be a stretch according to the polls in regards to congress and Obama. Oh, and the polls on the health care "reform" are not really in the dems favor either.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[rehmwa 2]

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>The republicans made a good decision condemning Wilson's outbursts. If they can start to jettison the other extremists in their party -.

if the dems would start doing the same as well, then we'd have a better government

except the dems are actively encouraging the nutsjob in their ranks

what's the solution there?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[turtlespeed 226]

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>YA, and Obama finally got called on it.

Yep. And we all know how that turned out. Wilson apologized and his opponent raked in the cash. Heck, if a few more republicans "call him out" the democrats could get a 70-seat majority. I'll bet there are a lot of democrats out there praying for more Joe Wilsons (and more RushMCs) to guarantee their victories in the next election.

That may be a stretch according to the polls in regards to congress and Obama. Oh, and the polls on the health care "reform" are not really in the dems favor either.

All we need is a couple hundred more Harry Reids and we are golden - umm - check his poll numbers in Nevada . . .

Here - see for yourself. They have had enough of someone that will try to shove things down our throat.Bye Harry!

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 3,095]

>if the dems would start doing the same as well, then we'd have a
>better government

Agreed.

>except the dems are actively encouraging the nutsjob in their ranks
>what's the solution there?

In both cases, jettison the nutjobs.

[skymiles 3]

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except the dems are actively encouraging the nutsjob in their ranks

Could you please provide some examples of this.

[wmw999 2,567]

So then are you advocating that car insurance companies check citizenship before selling car insurance? Car dealers check citizenship before selling cars? Should grocers check citizenship papers before selling groceries?

That's a whole lot of cost to absorb.

Do you have proof of citizenship with you?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[quade 4]

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except the dems are actively encouraging the nutsjob in their ranks

Could you please provide some examples of this.

I'll toss you a bone . . . Maxine Waters

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 23]

Breaking news

Wilson has reported today that since his comments he has raised 1 million dollars toward his re-election fund raising!!

Life if fair and good now is it not?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[skymiles 3]

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except the dems are actively encouraging the nutsjob in their ranks

Could you please provide some examples of this.

I'll toss you a bone . . . Maxine Waters

That's one. Anymore?

[rushmc 23]

Yes, You/We all should!

For calling out a liar

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 4]

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except the dems are actively encouraging the nutsjob in their ranks

Could you please provide some examples of this.

I'll toss you a bone . . . Maxine Waters

That's one. Anymore?

I said I'd toss you a bone. Not cut your food and chew it too.

FFS, if you want to find loonies on either side of the aisle it's not all that hard.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 23]

FFS, if you want to find loonies on either side of the aisle it's not all that hard.

[ryoder 1,590]

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FFS, if you want to find loonies on either side of the aisle it's not all that hard.

Yes, just look for the one making the most noises about "family values", or most loudly condemning someone caught in a recent scandal, and you have found one with 99% certainty.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[skymiles 3]

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except the dems are actively encouraging the nutsjob in their ranks

Could you please provide some examples of this.

I'll toss you a bone . . . Maxine Waters

That's one. Anymore?

I said I'd toss you a bone. Not cut your food and chew it too.

FFS, if you want to find loonies on either side of the aisle it's not all that hard.

I'm not talking about the loonies. I want to know what elected democtrats (dems) are encouraging the loony left.

[rushmc 23]

ALL of them. Where do you think they get the money other than from Soros?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 4]

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ALL of them. Where do you think they get the money other than from Soros?

Why yes, every elected Democrat is in the pocket of Soros. Sure. Why didn't I see it before? My god man, you're a genius!

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[skymiles 3]

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ALL of them. Where do you think they get the money other than from Soros?

We all know your stock response. The question was asked of quade.

[rushmc 23]

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ALL of them. Where do you think they get the money other than from Soros?

Why yes, every elected Democrat is in the pocket of Soros. Sure. Why didn't I see it before? My god man, you're a genius!

You and billvon working on the twist together???

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln