Exit Date for Afghanistan

[jclalor 12]

Why is it the left hammered Bush on an exit date for Iraq, and yet no one is doing the same of Obama for Afghanistan? With the death toll mounting for US troops and the prospects for ever achieving any meaningful type of outcome seems less and less likely it's time to to get out.

[dreamdancer 0]

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America now has more military personnel in Afghanistan than the Red Army had at the peak of the Soviet invasion and occupation of that country. According to a Congressional Research Service report, as of March of this year, the U.S. had 52,000 uniformed personnel and another 68,000 contractors in Afghanistan -- a number that has likely grown given the blank check President Obama has written for what's now being called "Obama's War."

That makes 120,000 American military personnel fighting in Afghanistan, a figure higher than the Soviet peak troop figure of 115,000 during their catastrophic 9-year war. Just this week, General McChrystal, whom Obama appointed to command American forces in Afghanistan, is talking ofsending tens of thousands more American troops. At the height of the Soviet occupation,Western intelligence experts estimated that the Soviets had 115,000 troops in Afghanistan -- but like America, the more troops and the longer the Soviets stayed, the more doomed their military mission became.

Why hasn't anyone pointed out that America's troop commitment now exceeds the Red Army's? For some inexplicable reason the corporate media has decided to shuffle the figures and exclude the US military contractors from the total figure of US military personnel. It makes no logical sense -- we still count the Hessians among the British forces in the War of Independence. It's as if the only thing left that Americans are capable of is accounting fraud -- the only talent we perfected over the past decade was how to move all the bad numbers off the official books, as if it's become an instinctive reflex.

But just as those accounting tricks didn't change all those banks' and funds' insolvency, so the American media's troop-counting tricks, in which contractors are "off books," can't make the disaster in Afghanistan disappear.

http://www.alternet.org/world/142388/obama_is_leading_the_u.s._into_a_hellish_quagmire/

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[Andy9o8 3]

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Why is it the left hammered Bush on an exit date for Iraq, and yet no one is doing the same of Obama for Afghanistan? With the death toll mounting for US troops and the prospects for ever achieving any meaningful type of outcome seems less and less likely it's time to to get out.

Over the short run, neither side, at least in Congress, is going to call for a withdrawal, for fear of being portrayed as a weiner, albeit for slightly different reasons depending on what party one is in. Over the longer run, I'd predict it will start to be vaguely reminiscent of domestic opposition to the Vietnam war: first it started out with more "radical" elements of society; then it got increasingly mainstream; then it slowly bled-over into Congress, almost like a wave: starting from the left, and creeping rightward through, and eventually beyond, the center.

[Skyrad 0]

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Why is it the left hammered Bush on an exit date for Iraq, and yet no one is doing the same of Obama for Afghanistan? With the death toll mounting for US troops and the prospects for ever achieving any meaningful type of outcome seems less and less likely it's time to to get out.

And that is why the Taliban (et al) always believed that they would win, because they believe that Americans have no stomach for a long war.
Declaring a exit date for Afghanistan would simply be a call to go all out to the enemy.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[jclalor 12]

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And that is why the Taliban (et al) alway believed that they would win, because they believe that Americans have no stomach for a long war.
Declaring a exit date for Afghanistan would simply be a call to go all out to the enemy.[/reply

I think most american's don't have the stomach for a long, exspenive, and protracted war with out there being a clearly defined objective. I know the old Vietnam comparison gets a bit old but it is true, we hold a villiage for a few days and pull out and the Taliban is right back in. If Russia could not win, even by fightging in ways that we would never even dare to fight, how are we to win? What is winning? I would love to hear someone tell me what a victory in Afghanistan would look like. The most disturbing issue in that area is Packistan and it's future stability considering it's nuclear weapons.

[Skyrad 0]

I agree that Pakistan is a serious concern, but pulling out of Afghanistan is not the answer. Afghanistan and Pakistan must be dealt with at the same time. Otherwise the enemy will simply keep crossing the border to safety. One problem is the theological poisoning of Islamic teaching that originates in Saudi Arabia and has contaminated Pakistans Madrassas. The Salafi Deobandi sect of Islamic teaching has lead to the current problems. To win the tide has to be turned against the current teachings and back to more classical Islamic teaching at a grass roots level. But that has to happen in conjuction with a firm and resolute millitary commitment. Now is not the time to waiver in our commitment. A win or percieved win in Afghanistan will be seen as a sign of divine approval by the enemy who will then persue a terror campaign to push forward their objectives on a scale yet to be seen.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[kallend 2,230]

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Why is it the left hammered Bush on an exit date for Iraq, and yet no one is doing the same of Obama for Afghanistan? With the death toll mounting for US troops and the prospects for ever achieving any meaningful type of outcome seems less and less likely it's time to to get out.

In Afghanistan we are fighting the people who gave us 9/11 (death toll about 400 MORE than Dec 7, 1941).

In Iraq we were fighting people who didn't have WMDs and hadn't threatened us.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jclalor 12]

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In Afghanistan we are fighting the people who gave us 9/11 (death toll about 400 MORE than Dec 7, 1941).

In Iraq we were fighting people who didn't have WMDs and hadn't threatened us.

We don't even know where the people are who attacked us on 911 , they could be anywhere in Afghanistan or Pakistan. We are in reality fighting the people who hosted the people who committed 911. After 8 years of searching high and low for the Taliban leadership things don't seem to be working out well. How long was WW2? We are in a defensive posture and watching 19 year old US kids being blown to bits just trying to walk down a street is getting old. With winter coming soon the "fighting" will probably wind down until next spring. This will give the Taliban all winter to sit in their caves and come up with better ways to plant IED'S and create havoc for US troops next spring and summer. We fight this war on their terms. I have no problem Flying drones and f-18's over the country and punishing the Taliban that way, but what we are doing now is not working.

[riddler 0]

While there hasn't been direct challenge of Obama, George Will challenged Secretary of Defense Robert Gates on the subject. Gates did not back down, and has said that he supports even more troops there.

I believe our mission there should be to find and kill OBL. We owe him that, after 9/11. But I propose a "trigger" on the effort. If we are unable to do that, say within a year, then we should get out. And if we do find an kill him, we should again, get out. We don't need anymore nation-building in the middle east. It costs too much for our troops and our wallets, and I don't think we even have the right to begin with.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[kallend 2,230]

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In Afghanistan we are fighting the people who gave us 9/11 (death toll about 400 MORE than Dec 7, 1941).

In Iraq we were fighting people who didn't have WMDs and hadn't threatened us.

We don't even know where the people are who attacked us on 911 , they could be anywhere in Afghanistan or Pakistan. We are in reality fighting the people who hosted the people who committed 911. After 8 years of searching high and low for the Taliban leadership things don't seem to be working out well... .

We largely IGNORED Afghanistan for most of those 8 years, first chasing imaginary WMDs in Iraq, then pacifying the folks we'd pissed off in the process.

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority... I am truly not that concerned about him." GWB 3/13/02

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Skyrad 0]

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19 year old US kids

19 year old US Soldiers. Its a war and soldiers die during war.

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I have no problem Flying drones and f-18's over the country and punishing the Taliban that way

The only way to win a war is by having boots on the ground.

Its getting old??? Well unlike a Tarrentino movie you need a attention span longer than three hours. The US public should have considered what it was getting into before it invaded Afghanistan.

Time to show some backbone.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[warpedskydiver 0]

Most piss ants have no idea of what a backbone is.

They whine about any involvement whatsoever and never have an idea of their own to put forth.

They want to do all kinds of things but would never put themselves in harms way.

My how brave they are to put their ideals to the test with the lives of others.

Soldiers do not like it when we lose a comrade, however it is expected that it will happen.

People constantly whine about so called "kids being killed" when in reality many of our armed forces go back into combat time after time and some of these guys are pushing 50 yrs old.

Look at some forward operating base and you do not see faces of kids fresh out of high school.

I can think of a couple detachments that have nobody under 25.

It takes a long time to train operators.

[jgoose71 0]

Obama will start to get hammered about it soon. His popularity is starting to fall as his radical left leanings and lack of experience and leadership start to show.

Everybody is so distracted though that everyone has started to forget how dangerous the situation in Pakistan remains. Afghanistan will never be secure until the taliban are no longer allowed to come and go as they please. Of course, I know I am probably the only one concerned about a corrupt government on the verge of collapse in a nation full of islamic extremists and nuclear weapons.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[jclalor 12]

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We largely IGNORED Afghanistan for most of those 8 years, first chasing imaginary WMDs in Iraq, then pacifying the folks we'd pissed off in the process.

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority... I am truly not that concerned about him." GWB 3/13/02

[kallend 2,230]

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We largely IGNORED Afghanistan for most of those 8 years, first chasing imaginary WMDs in Iraq, then pacifying the folks we'd pissed off in the process.

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority... I am truly not that concerned about him." GWB 3/13/02

If by sending 25,000 troops for 8 years and SPENDING 250 billion dollars and LOSING 800 American lives is largely ignoring something I guess your right.

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