Home Schooling

[downwardspiral 0]

hah! For a semester I was that bullied student. It was a creative writing class and I have no idea why the teacher didn't like me but it certainly wasn't because I never "got it."

She was highly critical of my writing style. Admittedly it was a bit "out there" but it didn't deserve her extreme criticism nor the disdainful look in her eyes when she would regard me. I never received higher than a C on any of my work whereas the other four students in the class, who were superb writers, all received nothing but A's.

I got kicked out of her class several times that semester for mouthing off. Then one day the entire class got kicked out with me for defending me during one of our many arguments. I swear to this day she would provoke me just so she could kick me out of class. On the final I wrote about a narcisistic teacher who was blind to her own ugliness which ultimately led to her downfall. There were no threats invloved. Just a nice little story about an extremely flawed character. She gave me an A.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[GeorgiaDon 379]

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She wanted to take community college courses during her senoir year but the school board wouldn't let her.

Just curious about when this happened. My youngest daughter graduated this year from a public school in Georgia with nearly a year's worth of advanced college credit courses, which were taken at the high school but count for university credit. As a result she should be able to finish a 4-year degree in 3 to 3 1/2 years. I personally had an experience like the one you describe, but that was back in the paleolithic (early 1970's).

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[kelpdiver 2]

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She wanted to take community college courses during her senoir year but the school board wouldn't let her.

Just curious about when this happened. My youngest daughter graduated this year from a public school in Georgia with nearly a year's worth of advanced college credit courses, which were taken at the high school but count for university credit. As a result she should be able to finish a 4-year degree in 3 to 3 1/2 years. I personally had an experience like the one you describe, but that was back in the paleolithic (early 1970's).

Don

I was in the same district (Marina of Huntington Beach) and that was the senior year. Better 'college' courses than would be taught at the local JC.

[steve1 5]

I think home-schooling may be a great alternative for some kids and parents, and a terrible idea for others. You made a good point when you said that the success of all this depends on the parents.

I've seen some home-schooling scenarios where the parents weren't spending much time teaching, helping, or overseeing anything. Sometimes kids end up a couple years behind because their parents weren't doing their job in educating their child.

Some kids spend a couple years home doing little or nothing, then when they do return to school they are way behind. No, this isn't always the case, but I have seen scenarios similiar to this.

I have a friend who home schooled his kids. Actually his wife did. He had five daughters. A couple of them are now in their late 20's. They are all still living at home. They wear long dresses, and spend much of the time reading the bible. Socially they don't seem to be doing well.

But on the flip side....I have seen many success stories in home schooling. Many kids are bullied beyond what even an animal should endure. Some kids are being led down the wrong path by the wrong kind of kids. If that was happening to my kids, and if I couldn't find a decent school, I'd home school them too.

I've worked in a tough public school for 25 years. I know that our schools have huge problems. To tell you the truth, I would never send my kids to school here. In many ways it is not a good environment.

I know that many people think that if the damn people, who work in a school,,,, would just do their job, there wouldn't be this problem.

I could go on and on about this subject. I know many many good teachers and administrators who are getting out of the profession, because they are dealing with so much B.S. They are up against a lot. Each day they working at a very difficult, stressful, job, and getting little, if any appreciation for it....

And yes, we can all tell stories about a worthless teacher or administrator who should have never entered the profession. Maybe it should be easier to fire people like that....

[Granimal 0]

Seriously, how many parents do you think can teach advanced algebra, geometry, calculus, biology, chemistry, geography, and high literature. All at the same time.

Anyone who thinks that the average parents can be just as effective in each subject as the average teacher is seriously deluded.

I know my parents could not have done that. I only know 3 children who are/were home schooled. Each of them were not taught hardly at all but just stayed home all day. Their parents thought is was better to have no education than to learn about evolution. Now they are grown and read about as well as a 10 year old, write even worse, and can't solve basic fraction problems.

[kallend 2,147]

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Seriously, how many parents do you think can teach advanced algebra, geometry, calculus, biology, chemistry, geography, and high literature. All at the same time.

Anyone who thinks that the average parents can be just as effective in each subject as the average teacher is seriously deluded.

I know my parents could not have done that. I only know 3 children who are/were home schooled. Each of them were not taught hardly at all but just stayed home all day. Their parents thought is was better to have no education than to learn about evolution. Now they are grown and read about as well as a 10 year old, write even worse, and can't solve basic fraction problems.

We get home schooled students in our freshman classes all the time. They generally have straight "A" GPAs from their Moms, and adequate SAT/ACT scores. Some adjust to engineering school just fine, but during the past two years the worst students in each of my classes have been home schooled. The biggest weakness I see is in math.

Two years ago we had one whose home-school transcript included "Chemistry from a Biblical Perspective" (grade "A", of course). He flunked out of college after one year.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kbordson 8]

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Seriously, how many parents do you think can teach advanced algebra, geometry, calculus, biology, chemistry, geography, and high literature. All at the same time.

Anyone who thinks that the average parents can be just as effective in each subject as the average teacher is seriously deluded.

I know my parents could not have done that. I only know 3 children who are/were home schooled. Each of them were not taught hardly at all but just stayed home all day. Their parents thought is was better to have no education than to learn about evolution. Now they are grown and read about as well as a 10 year old, write even worse, and can't solve basic fraction problems.

Actually, I know the other end of the spectrum.

One of my god-daughters is home schooled with her 2 sisters and her brother. My friend has a college degree (I forget in what major), her husband is an engineer, her sister is a linguist and a musician, they are involved in local Martial Arts (I forget if they changed from Karate to Akido) ... I think that between all of that, she has done a wonderful job and the children are well socialized. Granted - that is a VERY subjective statement. I'm not sure where they would really score on standardized test... but they seem more well adjusted than my god-son who went to public school. Now... is "public school" to "blame" - HELL NO. I'm not saying that. I went to public high school. I'm not a moron. But PARENTAL involvement and interest in the growth and development of the child is very important. You CAN NOT just sent the children to school and expect everything to be done there. How much is due to "education" on the part of the teacher/parent v. "inquisitiveness" of the child? How much is inspired/enforced by parents? I don't know the ultimate answers there.

What does an "n" of 3 like you saw or an "n" of 1 (1 family, 4 children) mean?

For some, it works. For others, not at all.

[Granimal 0]

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Actually, I know the other end of the spectrum.

One of my god-daughters is home schooled with her 2 sisters and her brother. My friend has a college degree (I forget in what major), her husband is an engineer, her sister is a linguist and a musician, they are involved in local Martial Arts (I forget if they changed from Karate to Akido) ... I think that between all of that, she has done a wonderful job and the children are well socialized. Granted - that is a VERY subjective statement. I'm not sure where they would really score on standardized test... but they seem more well adjusted than my god-son who went to public school. Now... is "public school" to "blame" - HELL NO. I'm not saying that. I went to public high school. I'm not a moron. But PARENTAL involvement and interest in the growth and development of the child is very important. You CAN NOT just sent the children to school and expect everything to be done there. How much is due to "education" on the part of the teacher/parent v. "inquisitiveness" of the child? How much is inspired/enforced by parents? I don't know the ultimate answers there.

What does an "n" of 3 like you saw or an "n" of 1 (1 family, 4 children) mean?

For some, it works. For others, not at all.

That is not the point I made. I too know smart people who have the knowledge to teach just about every HS subject. The point is that the overwhelming majority of adults are incapable of teaching the advanced subjects I mentioned.

Are you disagreeing with this statement?

[kbordson 8]

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Actually, I know the other end of the spectrum.

One of my god-daughters is home schooled with her 2 sisters and her brother. My friend has a college degree (I forget in what major), her husband is an engineer, her sister is a linguist and a musician, they are involved in local Martial Arts (I forget if they changed from Karate to Akido) ... I think that between all of that, she has done a wonderful job and the children are well socialized. Granted - that is a VERY subjective statement. I'm not sure where they would really score on standardized test... but they seem more well adjusted than my god-son who went to public school. Now... is "public school" to "blame" - HELL NO. I'm not saying that. I went to public high school. I'm not a moron. But PARENTAL involvement and interest in the growth and development of the child is very important. You CAN NOT just sent the children to school and expect everything to be done there. How much is due to "education" on the part of the teacher/parent v. "inquisitiveness" of the child? How much is inspired/enforced by parents? I don't know the ultimate answers there.

What does an "n" of 3 like you saw or an "n" of 1 (1 family, 4 children) mean?

For some, it works. For others, not at all.

That is not the point I made. I too know smart people who have the knowledge to teach just about every HS subject. The point is that the overwhelming majority of adults are incapable of teaching the advanced subjects I mentioned.

Are you disagreeing with this statement?

No.

But that doesn't mean that those that can, shouldn't be allowed to. Nor does it mean that it has to be ONE person teaching all the subjects. Many "home school" children aren't JUST taught by ONE person, rather a small community that share some of the teaching responsibilities.

And whether we are using your n of 3 or the "overwhelming majority," neither point should limit parents rights. If I had children, would I home school? Probably not. But I wouldn't want that right revoked.

[downwardspiral 0]

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That is not the point I made. I too know smart people who have the knowledge to teach just about every HS subject. The point is that the overwhelming majority of adults are incapable of teaching the advanced subjects I mentioned.

Are you disagreeing with this statement?

I agree but it is not a concern of mine. Why? Because I am a solution oriented person. I don't see problems. I see solutions. Or at the very least I see potential solutions.

Question: Do you think it is impossible to make sure your child is learning even though you don't know anything about what's suppose to be learned?

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[kelpdiver 2]

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One of my god-daughters is home schooled with her 2 sisters and her brother. My friend has a college degree (I forget in what major), her husband is an engineer, her sister is a linguist and a musician, they are involved in local Martial Arts (I forget if they changed from Karate to Akido) ...

Having a college degree hardly qualifies one to teach high school math, esp if there is any thought that this person is going to college in a hard science.

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For some, it works. For others, not at all.

That doesn't sound like a very good ratio.

[TomAiello 26]

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That is not the point I made. I too know smart people who have the knowledge to teach just about every HS subject. The point is that the overwhelming majority of adults are incapable of teaching the advanced subjects I mentioned.

Are you disagreeing with this statement?

How familiar are you with home schooling, generally?

Lots of homeschoolers use outside resources. I know several home schooled kids who took courses at junior colleges in subjects their parents didn't feel comfortable teaching. I also know one group of home schoolers who split courses up between different parents, so that the high school level biology course was taught by a doctor (who was probably at least as qualified to teach it as your average high school biology teacher) and the high school level US government course was taught by a lawyer (again, someone who had probably studied the US government in greater depth than the average high school social studies teacher).

The fact that you are not personally capable of teaching a subject doesn't mean that you are going to muddle through it trying to teach your kids. Many people recognize those shortcomings and seek outside help.

For what it's worth, I disagree with the common conception that home schoolers must be religious fundamentalists opposed to teaching of evolution. Most of the home schoolers I met in rural Idaho were actually the reverse--reasonably secular professionals (most with post-graduate education) who objected to the religious environment of the local public schools.

Home schooling offers an excellent alternative for parents who are not satisfied with their local public school options for any number of reasons--including feeling that the curriculum is too religiously influenced, or too light on math and science.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 26]

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Having a college degree hardly qualifies one to teach high school math, esp if there is any thought that this person is going to college in a hard science.

Very true. But amazingly, many states allow high school teachers without any formal math education beyond high school to teach math. Despite never having been required to take a math course beyond high school, my father taught high school mathematics courses in a public high school in California for several years.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[wmw999 2,587]

True dat. But to reject completely the possibility of parents providing for their children's education adequately without the public schools is also wrong.

I'd imagine that the kind of parents who are intelligent home-schoolers will notice that little Johnny is really, really interested in math, and find a way to nurture that even when it goes beyond their ability.

Just having an exit test probably isn't enough -- if we object to the fact that people teach to the test at schools, why would it be right for it to happen at home?

The biggest problem with home schooling is also the biggest advantage -- ever home school situation is different. Which means that more people are required to see if whatever is being done by the parents is OK from whatever state regs there are.

I honestly don't see a problem with children in the lower grades. Even if the parents don't do a very good job, it really just means that the child will repeat a grade when they get to middle or high school -- not that big a deal.

But at the exit level (HS diploma) there should be some assurance of what it means. Of course, it might just mean that the student has to take more (or fewer) remedial classes as a freshman; again, not that big a deal.

With schools turning out students of doubtful knowledge, it's a little hard to object to parents doing the same thing. The problem is that if the student is particularly motivated, most schools have the resources, even if the student has to fight for them. Many parents don't.

It's like anything else with a lot of human variability -- there is no one right answer.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rhaig 0]

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Seriously, how many parents do you think can teach advanced algebra, geometry, calculus, biology, chemistry, geography, and high literature. All at the same time.

Anyone who thinks that the average parents can be just as effective in each subject as the average teacher is seriously deluded.

I know my parents could not have done that. I only know 3 children who are/were home schooled. Each of them were not taught hardly at all but just stayed home all day. Their parents thought is was better to have no education than to learn about evolution. Now they are grown and read about as well as a 10 year old, write even worse, and can't solve basic fraction problems.

in our area there are home school co-ops popping up to handle just that.

parents that can teach certain subjects do. periodically they bring in an expert on something or another. They get around the "being a shool" bits of the law by being a co-op. Every parent has to teach or assist.

--
Rob

[nerdgirl 0]

Got a glimpse of a comparative case that suggested to me other solutions … or perhaps origin of problems that can be solved: Singapore’s school system. My observations are admittedly cursory and anecdotal, i.e., not that different from much, albeit not all, that has been offered w/r/t home schooling. It does, however, provide a comparative model.

Two observations: teachers are valued/teaching is considered a prestigious career (cultural incentive) and they are paid well (monetary incentive). There is also a bonus system. The second observation: greater value of education and schools. Every advertisement I saw in the Straits Times for new buildings referenced local schools, and they were prominently noted on location maps in print ads. There appears to be a much stronger valuation of primary education.

Otoh, Singapore is similarly facing a decline is students pursuing physical science degrees at the undergrad level. Their science and engineering grads are still largely coming to the US for advanced degrees – perhaps the most successful US statecraft of the 20th century.

/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying