kallend 2,148 #26 August 30, 2009 QuoteThe fact you believe them makes my point. They offer liberal opinions masquerading as non-partisan. If you actually took the time to read HR3200 you too would realize that you too are being lied to by the right wingers. But your attitude indicates that you can't be bothered, just keep on listenting to Rush and Glenn Beck.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #27 August 30, 2009 Quote Quote Just because factcheck.org states they are non-partisan doesn't mean its true. They certainly lean liberal. No, they lean HONEST. It was founded by a lifelong Republican and member of Reagan's cabinet. No, they are Liberal. If you read there site with unbiased eyes you can see it. Example: Quote Claim: Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services. False. This page includes "SEC. 152. PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION IN HEALTH CARE," which says that "[e]xcept as otherwise explicitly permitted by this Act and by subsequent regulations consistent with this Act, all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services." However, the bill does explicitly say that illegal immigrants can’t get any government money to pay for health care. Now it sounds good on the outside, but the minute an illegal is turned away, the ACLU is going to slap all kinds of racial profiling law suits on the government. Quote Claim: Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer. False. This section aims to simplify electronic payments for health services, the same sort of electronic payments that already are common for such things as utility bills or mortgage payments. The bill calls for the secretary of Health and Human Services to set standards for electronic administrative transactions that would "enable electronic funds transfers, in order to allow automated reconciliation with the related health care payment and remittance advice." Not only will they be debiting straight from your checking account, but there are also provisions in the bill that gives some authority to collect money to the IRS. This is only a few of the many loop holes I see in this. I could go on. This bill is so long and filled with so much leagal double speak that it just has to die. Me personally, I don't care who runs our health care (government or private insurance companies) as long as it covers tort reform, medical malpractise insurance, and the doctor shortage. (and this one doesn't) If these items are not covered, take it back to the drawing board."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dsandreas 0 #28 August 30, 2009 Find the part for me that explicitly states that coverage in this program will not cover people in the country illegally... Find the part that says the federal government can not obtain nor retain your medical record information... Find the part that says the federal government will be denied access to your bank account information for purposes of this health care program... You will have a long night if you start looking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #29 August 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteThe fact you believe them makes my point. They offer liberal opinions masquerading as non-partisan. If you actually took the time to read HR3200 you too would realize that you too are being lied to by the right wingers. But your attitude indicates that you can't be bothered, just keep on listenting to Rush and Glenn Beck. Ok, you are so damned smug about this, list the lies dude! At least the ones YOU believe to be lies. Dare You? And how about your own opinion, not any fact check site. List em if you dare to expose yourself"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #30 August 31, 2009 Quote Find the part for me that explicitly states that coverage in this program will not cover people in the country illegally... Find the part that says the federal government can not obtain nor retain your medical record information... Find the part that says the federal government will be denied access to your bank account information for purposes of this health care program... You will have a long night if you start looking. Lots of "can't do"s there, chief. They are in the same part the part that says orang utans, gorillas and hyenas won't be covered. They are in the same part that says the government can't repeal the rules of quantum mechanics. They are in the same part that says the government can't turn shit into gold by fiat. The bill is about what the government CAN do. Of course, if you read it you would know that, ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #31 August 31, 2009 Quote They are in the same part that says the government can't turn shit into gold by fiat. They seem to be doing a damn good job of turning money into shit lately. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dsandreas 0 #32 August 31, 2009 "The bill calls for the secretary of Health and Human Services to set standards for electronic administrative transactions that would "enable electronic funds transfers, in order to allow automated reconciliation with the related health care payment and remittance advice" No health care providers nor insurance companies have my bank account information nor "automatically reconcile." Have fun to get your money back from some federal government bureaucrat when they have mistakenly taken too much money from your bank account electronically. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #33 August 31, 2009 Quote"The bill calls for the secretary of Health and Human Services to set standards for electronic administrative transactions that would "enable electronic funds transfers, in order to allow automated reconciliation with the related health care payment and remittance advice" You'd prefer that there are NO standards? No standards for the financial industry led to the current Bush Recession.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dsandreas 0 #34 August 31, 2009 The House bill will allow for coverage of illegal immigrants; it will allow the government to have your medical files; it will allow them to access to your bank account and it will cover abortions. This is what it can do and just some of the reasons I oppose it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #35 August 31, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe fact you believe them makes my point. They offer liberal opinions masquerading as non-partisan. If you actually took the time to read HR3200 you too would realize that you too are being lied to by the right wingers. But your attitude indicates that you can't be bothered, just keep on listenting to Rush and Glenn Beck. Ok, you are so damned smug about this, list the lies dude! At least the ones YOU believe to be lies. Dare You? And how about your own opinion, not any fact check site. List em if you dare to expose yourself Well, Marc, it was YOU that first drew my attention to Politifact as a fact checking site. Now it exposes your side's lies you don't like it any more. DOUBLE STANDARD!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dsandreas 0 #36 August 31, 2009 If I would losing the argument so clearly I would change the subject too. What is next...Bush lied people died? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #37 August 31, 2009 Quote If I would losing the argument so clearly I would change the subject too. What is next...Bush lied people died? You are just pissed that all the reputable fact checking sites like politifact, snopes and factcheck show the same thing: LIES from your side. The lie about Stephen Hawking was the most absurd.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dsandreas 0 #38 August 31, 2009 I am not pissed...funny watching you flail around for a new argument since you have lost the previous ones. I am not part of a "side". I am an individual with an opinion that the federal government is big enough and highly ineffective. I do not check liberal websites like fact check and politifact. You haven't provided any facts to dispute my previous posts. Just go ahead and paste the relevant parts of the House bill that show I am incorrect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #39 August 31, 2009 QuoteI am not pissed...funny watching you flail around for a new argument since you have lost the previous ones. I am not part of a "side". I am an individual with an opinion that the federal government is big enough and highly ineffective. I do not check liberal websites like fact check and politifact. You haven't provided any facts to dispute my previous posts. Just go ahead and paste the relevant parts of the House bill that show I am incorrect. POT! You haven't posted any facts AT ALL. Just your clearly biased opinion about fact checking web sites. You can easily check the fact of HR3200 by reading it - the entire text is online and disproves the assertions made by Palin, Limbaugh and others.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #40 August 31, 2009 Quote Whether you like it or not...this country can not afford it. We are already running deficits of 1,000 billion dollars a year. It will cost more than the estimates...government programs always do. There isn't enough money in the private sector to fund Social Security (already broke), Medicaid (already broke), Medicare (already broke), the annual spending bills and this new mandate. There simply isn't enough money...like it or not. just to say that we managed to get our national health service up and running bankrupt at the end of a world war and our empire gone stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #41 August 31, 2009 QuoteQuoteThe fact you believe them makes my point. They offer liberal opinions masquerading as non-partisan. If you actually took the time to read HR3200 you too would realize that you too are being lied to by the right wingers. But your attitude indicates that you can't be bothered, just keep on listenting to Rush and Glenn Beck. CBS is right-wing, now?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #42 August 31, 2009 QuoteQuote"The bill calls for the secretary of Health and Human Services to set standards for electronic administrative transactions that would "enable electronic funds transfers, in order to allow automated reconciliation with the related health care payment and remittance advice" You'd prefer that there are NO standards? No standards for the financial industry led to the current Bush Recession. "Fannie and Freddie are doing just fine...no more oversight needed" (paraphrased) - Chris Dodd (D) / Maxine Waters (D).Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #43 August 31, 2009 QuoteIf I would losing the argument so clearly I would change the subject too. What is next...Bush lied people died? Obama lied, the economy died...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #44 August 31, 2009 Quote Quote If I would losing the argument so clearly I would change the subject too. What is next...Bush lied people died? You are just pissed that all the reputable fact checking sites like politifact, snopes and factcheck show the same thing: LIES from your side. The lie about Stephen Hawking was the most absurd. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/4736927/Right-to-die-can-become-a-duty-to-die.html Think Hawkings treatment has cost less than these folks? Just because he didn't get caught in it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #45 August 31, 2009 Thank you and dsandreas for demonstating far better than I could ever have done why right wing pols and pundits lie so blatantly - they know they have a receptive and uncritical constituency that will believe, defend and propagate the lies.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #46 August 31, 2009 QuoteThank you and dsandreas for demonstating far better than I could ever have done why right wing pols and pundits lie so blatantly - they know they have a receptive and uncritical constituency that will believe, defend and propagate the lies. And you seem so hopelessly devoted to a plan that could (and I do acknowledge that it is a "could") remove the freedoms of many Americans. The Obama Administration has it's own receptive and uncritical constituency that will believe, defend and propagate the lies. Just different people and just different lies. Why can't everyone just stand back from the parties and think for themselves for a change? Why do plans have to be (R) or (D)? If something is good... or if something is bad... shouldn't have to do with the mascot that the bill got submitted under. I have personal reservations with the Health Care Bill. I don't trust motives. I am suspicious of the intent. Is that a lie? HELL NO. It might be heightened by the lies circulating, but there might be some truth in the lies. If the entire high school football team is saying that they banged your sweetheart, are you so naive to believe that she is now pregnant by immaculate conception because she has told you that she's a virgin? I think some level of doubt is much more wise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #47 August 31, 2009 Quote Quote "The bill calls for the secretary of Health and Human Services to set standards for electronic administrative transactions that would "enable electronic funds transfers, in order to allow automated reconciliation with the related health care payment and remittance advice" You'd prefer that there are NO standards? No standards for the financial industry led to the current Bush Recession. you have your head so far in............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................. the sand, or you purposfully refuse to see the cause. This damed ression was started because of laws put into place years ago, (Bush did not help) and Dodd et al protecting Fannie and Freddie who pushed rules on the lending industry. Do you want to yet again see the tapes of Bush trying to control the mess in 03 and Dodd saying nothing was wrong with Fannie and Freddie???!!!! No, you dont cause this is about protecting big gov to you.. So, you YET agiain, throw the straw man to not answer yet another good question. but it is all Bush's fault. Nice and old arguement is a lie"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #48 August 31, 2009 Yeah, like Dodd was running AIG. Like Gramm, Leach and Bliley were Dems. You are, of course, aware that mortgages backed by Fannie and Freddie defaulted below the national average for prime loans, and well below the national average for sub prime and variable rate loans? (Thought not).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #49 August 31, 2009 Quote Obama lied, the economy died... Not according to the WSJ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #50 August 31, 2009 And...maybe not. How's that 8% unemployment going, again?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
