rushmc 23 #26 August 25, 2009 QuoteQuoteSo, why not complete your profile? What do his jump numbers and gear selection have to do with Speaker's Corner topics? A Name would be enough. The other stuff does not matter in this forum"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #27 August 25, 2009 Quote Quote Quote So, why not complete your profile? What do his jump numbers and gear selection have to do with Speaker's Corner topics? A Name would be enough. The other stuff does not matter in this forum kevin stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 380 #28 August 25, 2009 QuoteOf course healthcare here costs more per capita. Part of the reason is that we absorb the cost of care to illegals and others who can't/won't pay for it themselves. Every country with universal health care (which is all of them in the developed world, except the US, also absorbs those costs, so that can't be the reason for the difference. QuoteWe also have a legal system that forces doctors to order tons of expensive tests that often aren't necessary for anything other than protection against liability. I totally agree that that is a big problem. The question is, how to fix it without also leaving people who do suffer from real medical malpractice (which is rare but does happen) without recourse. Here in Georgia "tort reform" has capped malpractice awards at $250,000 pain&suffering plus actual economic damage. Despite this, the cost of malpractice insurance has not come down, in fact in many cases it has continued to rise, and doctors in many specialties are still leaving rather than coming to the state. Also as a consequence of the legislation poor, young or elderly people who have been (at least, allegedly) injured are in many instances unable to seek redress, because they can't prove big economic damages (which usually is lost income due to long-term disability; not a lot of money if you have a minimum-wage job or retired, and impossible to prove what it might have been for children who aren't yet working), and the cap doesn't allow for enough money to cover expert witness, court, and lawyers fees. The only people who are cost-effective for lawyers to represent are the ones who can show that they have lost a decade or two of a six-figure income. So tort reform in Georgia (and from what I have read in other states too) has not reduced malpractice insurance prices, has not increased the supply of doctors, and has had the effect of banishing at least some people who have a legitimate case from seeking relief. Insurance company profits are apparently doing just fine, though, so it's not all bad. Maybe tort reform needs more thought than just a simplistic one size fits all cap. Quote...kick the illegals out of the emergency rooms and the math comes out much differently. Can you offer a suggestion of how exactly this can be accomplished in practice? The only legal proof of US citizenship generally available to people, and not easily forged, is a passport. Should people have to show a passport to obtain emergency room treatment? A birth certificate is easily faked, at least as easily as is a social security card and illegals have those by the truckload. Your suggestion has emotional appeal, I'll give it that, but I guess I'm not smart enough to see how to implement it so you'll have to explain it to me, in enough detail so I can understand how it will work without at the same time keeping legitimate American citizens, legal permanent residents, legal foreign nationals such as tourists and non-resident visa holders, etc from obtaining necessary emergency treatment. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #29 August 25, 2009 QuoteQuoteOf course healthcare here costs more per capita. Part of the reason is that we absorb the cost of care to illegals and others who can't/won't pay for it themselves. Every country with universal health care (which is all of them in the developed world, except the US, also absorbs those costs, so that can't be the reason for the difference. Few, is any, countries have the number of illegal immigrants and uncovered people. The scale is pretty different. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 380 #30 August 25, 2009 QuoteFew, is any, countries have the number of illegal immigrants...No debate about that. Which is why I think sometimes it's necessary to look at the big picture and not just pieces here and there. However I'm glad Obama hasn't put immigration reform on his plate on top of everything else. Anyway the health care bill (heh, I just noticed "bill could mean both "legislation" and "cost" at the same time, kind of funny) does have provisions against enrolling illegal immigrants, although I realize that doesn't address the emergency care situation. Quote...and uncovered people.Which of course is what "universal health care" is all about. For the "scale", you'd have to look at the proportion of the population that was uninsured prior to introducing universal coverage. For Canada, I think it wasn't too different from the US today. Smaller overall numbers, because the population base is only 10% of the US, but a similar proportion. The illegal immigrant issue is very different though certainly. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
