What "death panel" would you prefer ?

[jgoose71 0]

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>After Democrats coming up with terms like "bridge to nowhere" . . .

Dude, Sarah Palin was photographed holding up a "nowhere, alaska" shirt long before it became a campaign issue. No doubt the democrats capitalized on it, but she was one of the creators of it.

If you don't want it talked about, don't bring it up.

The point went over your head.

The "renaming of a project to create public opinion" thing that the democrats like to use seems to be catching on

And Sarah wasn't the creator. Go back a little further and look at the Democrats that were trying to prosecute Senator Ted Stevens(R). The name just stuck.

Kind of like when Ace Ventura got stuck with "White Devil"

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[georgerussia 0]

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It seems with all this talk of "Death panels" going on lately that some people forget that it is private insurance companys that often make the decisions on who lives and who dies. Even if there WAS a goverment panel that decided very complicated cases I would much rather take my chances with the goverment than a corporation that has a profit motive for denying my care.

Honestly most arguments from those who oppose the healthcare bill sound like they rented a part of their brain to their political party propaganda. I discuss it in three different places, and the arguments are so similar that I could just copypaste my replies with little to no changes.

Seems like the only way to keep your mind is to have no party affiliation at all.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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Let's say you have Blue Cross. Karl Rove is named as an officer or the corp in charge of selecting who dies. You switch in a hurry.

The problem is that right now it doesn't really matter where you switch to, or whether you switch at all. California health insurance companies have pretty similar rates and plans, which means their "death panels" should be very similar as well. Not really different from the government.

And in both cases those "filthy rich" who could afford $3000/mo plan, will have no issues with either "death panel".

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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Because you are paying for the govt program whether you opt in or not. Let's say you are taxed an extra $10k per year for the "free" program, whether you participate of not. You want to switch to a private plan thatll cost you $10k per year.
Congrats - you are paying $20k per year for healthcare.

Yes, life sucks; I would be more happy if the tax rate increased for everyone, not just the "rich" - after all, it would benefit everyone, and the "rich" will have the least benefits from it.

Saying that, to be taxed extra $10k a year a person should make $500K/year taxable income. Extra 10k is not a huge burden there.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Misternatural 0]

I just wanted to install a little slice of life I had this week;

I visited a friend of mine in the ICU heart unit a month ago after his triple bypass..he's about 57 yrs old. The surgery led to an infection, by the time I got there he looked like a science experiment bristling with hoses and tubes, practically in a coma. I did not think he was going to make it. Talking to the nurse anecdotally she asked me if he was very active, We go stream fishing a lot so I sad yes...I commented on the complicated equipment he was hooked up to and speculated (to myself) about the cost. She asked me about my activity level and I told her that my policy was to exercise a lot and eat my veggies- Her comment was "That's the best health insurance you can get".....

The dude fortunately has medicare and I speculate that his 21 day ordeal complete with cow or pig heart valve ranges in the $200,000 area. He has a young family and leads a productive life as a talented musician. I have to wonder if all that effort and cash would be spent on a octogenarian with grown kids..doubtful.

Someone I know who works in a hospital told me that all hospitals have some sort of an anonymous board that determines how medical resources are allocated. So in essence we already have death panels, they are just not so well publicized.

Later at the recovery/convalescent center where he ended up I noticed all sorts of withered souls- shells of their former selves...people in their last stage in life, they could hardly hold their own heads up, some of them seemed to be hoping that the end would be near. I could almost hear the loneliness in their breathing.

I think we as individuals need to determine for ourselves when to stop clinging to our earthly existence, not so much "Ride hard and die young" But just know when to determine you have been here long enough.

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[rickjump1 0]

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First of all, I haven't seen any proposals for raising taxes attached to any of the healthcare bills. ------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if the above was your statement, but sure, no proposals to raise taxes when you can deny millions of an aging population to make up for the loss of rev from this administration (this is kind of a historical event).

By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER, Associated Press Writer Stephen Ohlemacher, Associated Press Writer – 35 mins ago
WASHINGTON – Millions of older people face shrinking Social Security checks next year, the first time in a generation that payments would not rise. The trustees who oversee Social Security are projecting there won't be a cost of living adjustment (COLA) for the next two years. That hasn't happened since automatic increases were adopted in 1975..............

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

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[rickjump1 0]

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There are no government "death panels", this is just another Palin/Limbaugh LIE. It should make another chapter in SENATOR Al Franken's book, "Lying Liars and the Lies They Tell".

The insurance companies have had their own death panels in place for years. Every time they've denied a drug, denied a therapy, or cancelled coverage on someone being treated for cancer, they've passed a death sentence.

I'd actually like to see some public hangings for the insurance executives who have passed these death sentences. I really would.

That "lefty" enough for y'all out there ???

Why not hang your favorite senator or congressman for not protecting the public. My favorite senator, Max Baucus of Montana, has received millions from insurance and pharmaceutical companies, and he's the man in Obama's healthcare plan.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[justinb138 0]

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Why not hang your favorite senator or congressman for not protecting the public. My favorite senator, Max Baucus of Montana, has received millions from insurance and pharmaceutical companies, and he's the man in Obama's healthcare plan.

I've only lived in this state for a few months, but I'd really like to put a boot up Chris Dodd's ass - along with the Senate "ethics" committee that found no wrongdoing with the sweet deal of a mortgage he got from Countrywide.

Hopefully Peter Schiff will get to tear him a new one during debates sometime next year. Gotta love a candidate that both parties hate.

[mnealtx 0]

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Perhaps you haven't heard about their policy regarding pre-existing conditions?

Perhaps you haven't heard that they can't deny pre-existing conditions unless there's a lapse in coverage - by law?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rickjump1 0]

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Why not hang your favorite senator or congressman for not protecting the public. My favorite senator, Max Baucus of Montana, has received millions from insurance and pharmaceutical companies, and he's the man in Obama's healthcare plan.

I've only lived in this state for a few months, but I'd really like to put a boot up Chris Dodd's ass - along with the Senate "ethics" committee that found no wrongdoing with the sweet deal of a mortgage he got from Countrywide.

Hopefully Peter Schiff will get to tear him a new one during debates sometime next year. Gotta love a candidate that both parties hate.

This kind of voter "rage" does not come from right-wing talk show hosts. It "festers" on all sides of the political card, and we are considered misinformed or misguided by our political thugs. Ever hear of townhall meetings by phone? Just one example of dodging the voters. If you scan AM radio about 2 or 3:00 AM, you can pick up the pissed pulse of the American voter, while the right-wing show hosts sleep.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[Andy9o8 3]

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Perhaps you haven't heard about their policy regarding pre-existing conditions?

Perhaps you haven't heard that they can't deny pre-existing conditions unless there's a lapse in coverage - by law?

But many people, and not just irresponsible ones, do have such lapses in coverage; and then they're screwed.

Example (not a perfect one, but it illustrates the point): You're the sole wage-earner in a family of four, and your family basically lives from paycheck to paycheck. Your employer lays you off without advance notice, and immediately notifies your health insurer to cancel your policy. The company has less than 20 employees, so you don't qualify for COBRA coverage. The premium for any continuation of group coverage you might qualify for under HIPAA is so expensive that your family simply does not have the money in the bank to pay it. You scramble to quickly get a cheap, short-term policy with lousy coverage in place that you can afford, but by the time coverage under the shitty policy begins, you've had a brief lapse in coverage. The pre-existing condition exclusion would be triggered by that.

Now, no matter how good or bad my example might be, or what type of health care system one might favor for the U.S., pre-existing coverage exclusions are a real problem that, one way or another, really needs to be fixed.

[PhreeZone 20]

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Someone I know who works in a hospital told me that all hospitals have some sort of an anonymous board that determines how medical resources are allocated. So in essence we already have death panels, they are just not so well publicized.

They absolutely have these types of boards. One of the more common ones is transplant boards, they are the final step someone needs to clear in order to get on the list for donor organs and to be able to move up on this list. Hospitals and transplant groups deny chronic drinkers new livers all the time, they deny smokers from getting lung transplants and if a person has a history of certain conditions or activities they are frequently denied being placed on these transplant lists which effectively places a limit on their remaining life. You could call these death panels also and these are in place today and no one seems to complain too much about them.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[mnealtx 0]

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Perhaps you haven't heard about their policy regarding pre-existing conditions?

Perhaps you haven't heard that they can't deny pre-existing conditions unless there's a lapse in coverage - by law?

But many people, and not just irresponsible ones, do have such lapses in coverage; and then they're screwed.

Example (not a perfect one, but it illustrates the point): You're the sole wage-earner in a family of four, and your family basically lives from paycheck to paycheck. Your employer lays you off without advance notice, and immediately notifies your health insurer to cancel your policy. The company has less than 20 employees, so you don't qualify for COBRA coverage. The premium for any continuation of group coverage you might qualify for under HIPAA is so expensive that your family simply does not have the money in the bank to pay it. You scramble to quickly get a cheap, short-term policy with lousy coverage in place that you can afford, but by the time coverage under the shitty policy begins, you've had a brief lapse in coverage. The pre-existing condition exclusion would be triggered by that.

Now, no matter how good or bad my example might be, or what type of health care system one might favor for the U.S., pre-existing coverage exclusions are a real problem that, one way or another, really needs to be fixed.

If you lapse for more than 63 days, then they can exclude pre-existing conditions, but only if you received diagnosis or treatment within the 6 months prior to enrollment in the new plan, and only for a maximum of 12 months, 18 months if you opt into your new employer's insurance late.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706