A social question

[jgoose71 0]

I just got through visiting relatives in Alaska and most of them still live off the land.

It just got me thinking about how much people really think about where the things that make daily life livable come from and how it gets to the consumer.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Gawain 0]

I just moved to Northern California, well north of Sacramento where it's pretty much all agriculture. Having just moved from Western Kentucky, this environment isn't new to me. Most of my new acquaintances grow most of their own stuff, and I have enough space for a small garden, but not real farming or livestock action...

During this past Thanksgiving holiday, my mom (who lives outside of NYC in CT) was telling me how awful it was seeing an interview of Sarah Palin at the turkey farm, where she was being interviewed while the owner was killing turkeys in the background.

I looked at her and said, "Where do you think our turkey came from? While you're thinking about it, thank your lucky starts you've never seen the inside of a chicken farm."



Yeah, the "greenwich village" crowd didn't enjoy that one...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Andy9o8 2]

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Most of my new acquaintances grow most of their own stuff,

Dude, I hear ya.



Are we talking about the same thing?

[billvon 3,116]

>It just got me thinking about how much people really think about where
>the things that make daily life livable come from and how it gets to the
>consumer.

We get most of our food from a CSA (community supported agriculture) farm. They deliver from the farm to a neighborhood location where we pick it up. It lacks in a few things (like bananas) but overall it's a great way to both support your local economy and make sure you're not getting food delivered from 3000 miles away.

[Skyrad 0]

Have killed aninmals to eat before

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[virgin-burner 1]

i'm trying to eat seasonal (swiss) food, and only buy stuff occasionally that comes from far away..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[jgoose71 0]

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During this past Thanksgiving holiday, my mom (who lives outside of NYC in CT) was telling me how awful it was seeing an interview of Sarah Palin at the turkey farm, where she was being interviewed while the owner was killing turkeys in the background.

I looked at her and said, "Where do you think our turkey came from? While you're thinking about it, thank your lucky starts you've never seen the inside of a chicken farm."



Yeah, the "greenwich village" crowd didn't enjoy that one...

I've known a lot of people like this and it boggles my mind. It's one thing to say that you don't have the stomach to watch a cow or chicken get butchered, but to talk about how wrong it is over a big porterhouse steak to me is kind of hypocritical.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[bullin82 0]

im all about living on the land, though i wouldnt have made itin the "old days" cause i cant bring myself to trap animals just seems kinda messed up to let them choose: sit there and bleed and wait for whatever to happen or naw your leg off and maybe survive. Im all about the stalking hunt trying to outsmart something that knows that land way more than you do.

[councilman24 37]

Question...

Does this cost you more, save you money, or break even?

Not questioning any of the higher moral values or planatary benefits. Just wondering.

I barely have time to open a bag of Doritos let alone shop at the local farmers market. My wife and I haven't figured out the super parent things with two under three. But a recent newpaper article played up a lot of the organic, pasture raised, 'green' foods and their higher cost in many instances. Not as a bad thing but as part of the cost of supporting the locals and eating 'better'.

edited to add... And no the kids don't usually get Doritos.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[billvon 3,116]

>Does this cost you more, save you money, or break even?

Costs a little more compared to Von's.

>I barely have time to open a bag of Doritos let alone shop at the local farmers market.

A CSA might be the way to go, then. You either get them delivered or go somewhere local to pick them up once every week or so.

[vortexring 0]

What surprises me here in the UK is that despite walking in the countryside and along coasts being such popular pastimes, very few make any effort to bring home something to eat that nature provides for free, and will taste infinitely better than anything that's (been flown half-way across the world) in the supermarkets.

When you're able to get your children involved you're teaching them so many useful little things, and you'll no doubt be pleasantly surprised at how good they're able to spot things you've missed. ( I tell mine it's because they're closer to the ground. . .) I suppose sometimes you've got to use some common sense; such as not picking mussels in August from the polluted North Sea coast and if there's any doubt regarding the not so familiar toadstool you've come across - just eat it anyway.

Come late Summer/Autumn in woodland throughout continental Europe at the weekends you'll find families out for the day picking mushrooms, whilst in the UK most of the mushroom hunters you might come across are chavscum after the magical variety.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[Andy9o8 2]

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What surprises me here in the UK is that despite walking in the countryside and along coasts being such popular pastimes, very few make any effort to bring home something to eat that nature provides for free, and will taste infinitely better than anything that's (been flown half-way across the world) in the supermarkets.

You mean, like a squirrel? Kind of gamey. Plus, I think bringing a blood-dripping deer into one's London flat would make the landlord a bit cross. Cheers!

[vortexring 0]

What about a little bag of sweet chestnuts? Best not left in the oven and forgotten about though - you'd think some mad fucker had climbed inside and was firing on full auto with his AK otherwise. Or at least, that's what I thought.

I'd recommend the deer being cleaned and prepared prior to getting back to one's London flat though, although if there's a problem with the landlord a scream of FUCK OFF usually suffices.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[jgoose71 0]

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What surprises me here in the UK is that despite walking in the countryside and along coasts being such popular pastimes, very few make any effort to bring home something to eat that nature provides for free, and will taste infinitely better than anything that's (been flown half-way across the world) in the supermarkets.

What gets me is the prices of some of the stuff I get for free in Alaska. I can pick buckets of Blueberries and Huckleberries off my back porch, or, pay $10 a pound at the supermarket. On the really low tides I can collect rock scallops or Abalone off the rocks with meat the size of a coke can in them. Most people in the united states don't even know what Abalone is or if they do, they pay a months wage for it. Not to mention the Alaskan Salmon, Halibut, and crabs. Makes these blue crabs here in Florida taste like ass. Not to mention Alaska is so un-populated that you can still successfully hunt and fish for all this stuff. Something to be said about living someplace where there are no people.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[vortexring 0]

Sounds fantastic. Scallops are a bit difficult to collect in the UK; you'd need to firstly know where the beds are, then you'd need at least some snorkelling kit as they aren't normally exposed by even a spring tide. But talking of low tides, razor clams are delicious if you know how to catch them.

But it's the simple things too - eat a tomato from the supermarket then one from your greenhouse. There isn't any comparison. It's fairly difficult to buy even a decent salmon over here; the majority are inferior farmed fish selling in supermarkets. And they're awful. (Not that we've that many running up the rivers these days...)

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[PLFXpert 0]

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What gets me is the prices of some of the stuff I get for free in Alaska. I can pick buckets of Blueberries and Huckleberries off my back porch, or, pay $10 a pound at the supermarket. On the really low tides I can collect rock scallops or Abalone off the rocks with meat the size of a coke can in them. Most people in the united states don't even know what Abalone is or if they do, they pay a months wage for it. Not to mention the Alaskan Salmon, Halibut, and crabs. Makes these blue crabs here in Florida taste like ass. Not to mention Alaska is so un-populated that you can still successfully hunt and fish for all this stuff. Something to be said about living someplace where there are no people.

I love Alaska--by far one of my favorite vacation spots, despite being a royal tropical girl.

As far as produce, I would LOVE to just pick wild blueberries and huckleberries from my backyard. Where I live along the eastern-Florida coastline we ride bikes in the undeveloped communities and certain times of year spot blackberries we eat.

But, while I enjoy gardening, I am not yet at that point in my life where I want to make an effort to grow my own produce. Sure, it was fun experimenting with peppers. I would save a ton of money if I could grow my own avocados. But, I am freshly 29-years-old and do not want to tend to a garden in the sweltering August-in-Florida heat. Even at the beach where it is 10-degrees cooler, I would rather be in the ocean.

I know I will have a wonderful garden one day, though. I always loved working with my all my grandmas in their gardens when I was little--be it flowers, tomatoes, corn or otherwise.

I wouldn't know much about Florida blue crab. I don't eat anything boiled alive. I can tell you, though, if there were abalone along the coastline where we walk daily, I would be eating a LOT of abalone. Jealous!

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[PLFXpert 0]

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There isn't any comparison. It's fairly difficult to buy even a decent salmon over here; the majority are inferior farmed fish selling in supermarkets. And they're awful. (Not that we've that many running up the rivers these days...)

While it is easy for me to avoid all land-animal meat, I have always loved seafood. I do not over-indulge, but salmon is a weakness for me; I admit.

Farmed is NOT the same.

Generally, however, I avoid any over-fished seafood, in addition to avoiding any from Canada or any that is not turtle and dolphin-safe. Whole Foods makes it easy to support my Key West fisherman.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[kelpdiver 2]

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While it is easy for me to avoid all land-animal meat, I have always loved seafood. I do not over-indulge, but salmon is a weakness for me; I admit.

Farmed is NOT the same.

It's so far from being the same that I largely don't eat it any more, and I never order it in a restaurant where the sourcing can't be trusted.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Most people in the united states don't even know what Abalone is or if they do, they pay a months wage for it.

That's because enough people do know about it, and they overharvest California's fishery to effective extinction south of San Francisco. North of there, the recreational (breath hold diving only) fishery is still open, but under constant attack by poaching.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I suppose sometimes you've got to use some common sense; such as not picking mussels in August from the polluted North Sea coast and if there's any doubt regarding the not so familiar toadstool you've come across - just eat it anyway.

I hope you mean this the other way - common sense is not to eat mushrooms you're not sure of. We have cases every year in Northern California where people eat death caps and either die or need a liver transplant very quickly performed.

[vortexring 0]

I reckon most people should try their hand with growing some simple fruits and vegetables; it doesn't instantly make you a member of the coffin dodger gang. It's easily done and generally worth it for the taste - and what better way to have children eat their vegetables than by being involved? I love seafood pasta linguine that I make with mussles, scallops, prawns, cockles, limpets, etc. The first time my kids even set
eyes on it they ran off screaming - although perhaps I was at fault too; on enquiring what's for dinner I'd often reply it's Spider Pie or Big Booger Pasta and I suppose they believed I'd actually made Booger pasta for real! Once they were involved collecting some shellfish that I cooked on the beach where we were camping - well, that was them easily converted.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[vortexring 0]

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I suppose sometimes you've got to use some common sense; such as not picking mussels in August from the polluted North Sea coast and if there's any doubt regarding the not so familiar toadstool you've come across - just eat it anyway.

I hope you mean this the other way - common sense is not to eat mushrooms you're not sure of. We have cases every year in Northern California where people eat death caps and either die or need a liver transplant very quickly performed.

Really? Get a life man - if I'm honestly unsure of a mushroom I'll make some soup with 'em and invite the neighbours for dinner.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[PLFXpert 0]

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It's so far from being the same that I largely don't eat it any more, and I never order it in a restaurant where the sourcing can't be trusted.

Agree!
Except...I do still eat the wild-caught on occasion made at home. I also take fish oil (omega-3) supplements.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Really? Get a life man - if I'm honestly unsure of a mushroom I'll make some soup with 'em and invite the neighbours for dinner.

Your stupid advice may just work out where you live. It will kill people elsewhere. Don't confuse random luck with healthy living.

[PLFXpert 0]

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I reckon most people should try their hand with growing some simple fruits and vegetables; it doesn't instantly make you a member of the coffin dodger gang. It's easily done and generally worth it for the taste - and what better way to have children eat their vegetables than by being involved? I love seafood pasta linguine that I make with mussles, scallops, prawns, cockles, limpets, etc. The first time my kids even set
eyes on it they ran off screaming - although perhaps I was at fault too; on enquiring what's for dinner I'd often reply it's Spider Pie or Big Booger Pasta and I suppose they believed I'd actually made Booger pasta for real! Once they were involved collecting some shellfish that I cooked on the beach where we were camping - well, that was them easily converted.

I do not have kids, but largely concur. If I had children, I know I would make a big effort in growing my own produce and involving them. I am god-mommy to a beautiful boy whose amazing-mommy does all of that and more!

My daddy did sort of the opposite. As a child, I was a rarity. I loved my veggies (though, canned) and did not like butter, milk or mayonnaise (which in our home was Miracle Whip). So, my father made me a grilled-cheese sandwich. It was HEAVEN. Then he told me he buttered the outside of the bread, "mayonnaised" the inside of the bread and loaded with cheese. It is still one of my favorite points he made to me--not because he got me to eat dairy-shit I otherwise did not want (even at such a young age--I think I was six-years-old), but--well, it is a good lesson about judgment. At least that was how I took it.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.