vortexring 0 #76 August 10, 2009 Quote>Actually there is a reason they do it. Everything in the animal world has >a purpose, even if you do not see it. Ah! In that case, human cruelty is just as explainable. Many are cruel to make more money, or to satisfy their egos, or to further their ambitions. Just as the cat uses cruelty to make himself a better killer, humans use cruelty to make themselves more successful. From that angle, both are equally defensible. Disagree. Cats don't know they're being cruel. It's a cat for Christs sake. They've no concept of the meaning. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #77 August 10, 2009 QuoteQuoteWhy? Because a human is a human and a pet a pet. If you really cannot see a significant difference between a human and a dog... then I would not be able to explain my reasoning to you. But there are so many dogs out there that are more worth saving than some liberals out there.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #78 August 10, 2009 Quote Humans are animals comrade No, dude. Humans are no animals. Think about it. (You will not, I'm sure) dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #79 August 10, 2009 Quote RL! Great to hear from you. Quote I've tried a couple of fantasy scenarios... I tried a bunch myself. I wish I knew where I first read the hypothetical posited to a large, random sampling of children (do not remember the age range). The children overwhelmingly opted to save Scruffy. From a sociological perspective, I found this intriguing. At first, I could not help but consider the situation and the consequences--and like Chuck I thought of the potential legal ramifications of saving my pet. Then, I thought if the tables were turned, would I resent and hold accountable a person who opted to save their pet instead of my hunny. Finally, I said forget all that and thought of the question as simply as possible as vortexring touched on: What would my instinct be toward? In a life/death situation one must act quickly and without the ability to stop and consider all possible courses of action. At the end of the day, it is just another hypothetical for fans of hypotheticals. The dog made it then didn't he?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #80 August 10, 2009 >Cats don't know they're being cruel. A lot of people don't know, either. That's just "the way things are" for them. They see people like cats see mice. If they can get some benefit from torturing them, well, why not? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #81 August 10, 2009 Depends what you regard as 'a lot'. Percentage of the civilised world? I'd then call it a large minority, because most people are aware of what's right and wrong. For 100% of cats, it's just right. End of. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaoskitty 0 #82 August 10, 2009 My dog, because he's my responsibility. And honestly, yes, the life of my pet is more important to me than the life of a stranger, if you are just looking a the black and white of the question. He's a big part of my life. A stranger is not. Besides.. just look at him! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #83 August 10, 2009 Wow - sweet shot of Blaine! I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #84 August 10, 2009 Would you continue to remain secure in the knowledge that your decision was the right one when the strangers little children beg you to explain to them why you saved your dog over their Mummy? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #85 August 10, 2009 Quote Besides.. just look at him! Yep and I can't see a stranger making it first . . .I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaoskitty 0 #86 August 10, 2009 The question didnt ask if the person was anyone who's children's faces would be in mine, it said *YOUR* pet, or a stranger. I stand firm that my pet is my responsibility. And thats why I'd save him. But this is an impossible situation to imagine, and really know what you'd do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #87 August 10, 2009 Yes because I'm a heartless bastard .... I may even enjoy it ..... (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #88 August 10, 2009 My point was only that the stranger might have children. Sweet little innocent children, upset and confused over the reasoning of somebody who saved their pet dog when they could've saved their Mummy. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #89 August 10, 2009 Quote Yes because I'm a heartless bastard .... I may even enjoy it ..... Eh? Enjoy what? Saving someones pet then reaching for a drowning Robert Mugabe to only smash his teeth in with a lead cosh? Of course you'd enjoy it! 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaoskitty 0 #90 August 10, 2009 I understand your point, I'm just trying to keep my answer within the parameters of the question. There are lots of circumstances that would change my answer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaoskitty 0 #91 August 10, 2009 Even if I did choose to save the stranger, all of the thanks and hoopla for sacrificing my dog would NOT make up for the sacrifice. I'd be destroyed if I let something happen to hurt him. Its my job to keep him safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #92 August 10, 2009 Quote Quote Humans are animals comrade No, dude. Humans are no animals. Think about it. (You will not, I'm sure) Flunked biology did you? I rest my case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #93 August 10, 2009 Of course, but the further point is that you cannot know these parameters. To be honest, nobody really knows what they'd do unless they've been in such a situation. And would they do the same thing again? It's why it's a good question. Would you even consider if a strangers life is worth saving over your pets? You wouldn't have time. You'd simply just react in what can only be best described as the way you, as an individual, are hard wired to react in such circumstances. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #94 August 10, 2009 Enjoy telling the little kiddies that there's some good news and some bad news ..... good news... Fluffy is safe ..... Bad news ... they'll have to make their own tea ...... for ever. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #95 August 10, 2009 So if you ended up saving Osama Bin Laden whilst your dog died. . . 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #96 August 10, 2009 Hahahaha! You utter bastard! 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #97 August 10, 2009 Quote My dog, because he's my responsibility. And honestly, yes, the life of my pet is more important to me than the life of a stranger, if you are just looking a the black and white of the question. He's a big part of my life. A stranger is not. Besides.. just look at him! Awesome! Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #98 August 10, 2009 Quote My point was only that the stranger might have children. Sweet little innocent children, upset and confused over the reasoning of somebody who saved their pet dog when they could've saved their Mummy. Yours is a good point--hindsight being 20/20. Had one never considered the hypothetical queried and was--in fact--in such a situation I think then Kitty makes a good point as well (no pun intended. ).Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #99 August 10, 2009 My point was made to mostly take the piss, but also to question anyones answer a little bit deeper. I'm now convinced most people would instinctively save the stranger. It's like the analogy I gave earlier about the baby crying in the woods. Who would you have picked up first? Kitty cat or baby? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #100 August 10, 2009 Quote The dog made it then didn't he? Do kitties catch mice? In all seriousness--if I had never considered the situation before and had time to think about it--I truly believe my instinct would be to save my furry baby and much for the same reasons Chaoskitty described: my responsibility, my job to protect, super-cute. Excluding the last reason, the first two for me are instinctual. I am the alpha. My animals look to me for everything. My cats even come when called. Sabre is now nine years old--I nursed him with mother's milk from a syringe at two weeks when he was abandoned and separated from mama cat. Just after he was a year old, the place we were renting was treated for bug control. An hour after the bug guy left, Sabre jumped in my lap and buried his head and moaned. Cats normally hide when they are hurting. Sabre jumped in my lap and told me he didn't feel well. I don't care what anyone says, my cat told me he needed help. The emergency vet said had I been to see him much later, Sabre would have died. I realize it is silly to some, but for me it is a very tough question to answer without doubt.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
