OBAMA: 'I don't want the folks who created the mess to do a lot of talking. I want them to get out of the way so we can clean up the mess'...

[warpedskydiver 0]

Exactly

[turtlespeed 226]

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Exactly

SO

1) Put a cap on the amount of money that a lawsuit can award, there by decreasing the exposure and decreasing the amount of money paid into malpractice insurance. THEREby decreasing the per visit rates and decreasing healthcare costs overall.
2) Discontinue services not emergency related and spell or define out what should be considered emegency medicine, IE car accident, crime, emergecy births etc.
3) Increase penalty for non payment of medical bills
4) Revamp the medicare system (to decrease fraud and mal intent) to include un insured if they opt for that option with larger co-pays.
5) Decrease the amount of money that the government gives the politicians annually - yes ALL OF THEM - unless they are destitute, and I have not seen any that are,(they were supposed to do this as a public servant) Remove the lifetime salary, remove the life time medical. They can afford their own.

Right there is a LOT of capital!

Try Instead of picking this apart - Try building on it - as an experiment so that we can come to a conclusion not just a bitch session.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[funjumper101 15]

The whiny right wing shitsacks would have had a cow if Al Gore had started running his mouth in March 2001 the way Cheney has been.

Cheney has been running his mouth quite a bit since Obama took office. And Faux news, newscrap, etc, etc, have covered his bullshit like a blanket on a freezing day.

ANd none of the rightys think anything of it.

Why do you people hate this country so much?

The rescums have completely fucked over this country. Thanks for cheering them on, dickheads. You will rot in hell, if there is justice.

[rushmc 23]

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The whiny right wing shitsacks would have had a cow if Al Gore had started running his mouth in March 2001 the way Cheney has been.

Cheney has been running his mouth quite a bit since Obama took office. And Faux news, newscrap, etc, etc, have covered his bullshit like a blanket on a freezing day.

ANd none of the rightys think anything of it.

Why do you people hate this country so much?

The rescums have completely fucked over this country. Thanks for cheering them on, dickheads. You will rot in hell, if there is justice.

Life really sucks when your chosen one pulls a stinker huh?

And for your hate the country comment? Liberals have emotion while conservatives think. Emotion is less work

And finally, Can you say "Carter"?




And Al Gore has not been runnin his mouth?? Really?




It is a great start to the week end

Thanks

And then you bitch about Fox?? Dude

you got CNN, NPR, ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC and public TV

please, stop it, I cant take much more

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[marks2065 0]

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>doesn't care that we will pay for every non citizen that is here or can get
>to the US for medical treatment . . .

You just admitted we already do that. Hint - when you go on a rant, it's best to not contradict yourself before the end of the rant.

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we shouldn't pay for any illegal aliens, they should be stabilized and sent home, let their government pay for their own. If their socialized medicine is so good why don't they use it?. that will save billions

>doesn't care that the government will dictate the type of insurance or
>treatment you will or will not get.

The latest right wing lie. Essential in any good rant.

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no, Kallend provided a copy of the bill and it does say excactly that on page 16, maybe you should read it

>NOBODY in this country is denied medical treatment right now so what is
>the big rush?

Doctors and hospitals are going bankrupt. How many doctors would you be OK with losing their jobs while republicans stall and obstruct? How many hospitals are you OK giving up? Once you have that number we can figure out how much of a rush there should be.

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maybe if doctors didn't get sued for by illegals, criminals and people that self inflict injuries they wouldn't be in the financial position they are in.

• Quote

[marks2065 0]

The whiny right wing shitsacks would have had a cow if Al Gore had started running his mouth in March 2001 the way Cheney has been.

Cheney has been running his mouth quite a bit since Obama took office. And Faux news, newscrap, etc, etc, have covered his bullshit like a blanket on a freezing day.

ANd none of the rightys think anything of it.

Why do you people hate this country so much?

The rescums have completely fucked over this country. Thanks for cheering them on, dickheads. You will rot in hell, if there is justice.

[Royd 0]

Nothing wrong with a president that is at least honest. I said it too in several posts - Stand Aside, we have some changes to make.

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We put up with 8 years of bullshit lying crap, wars, cheating, torture and economic policies that spelled disaster with GWB

so yes, stand aside, while we fix a few things.

That's fine, but at least, be honest and forthright, in your procedures. Adding an amendment, to a bill, at 3am, the morning before the vote, is dishonesty.
The truth is, they should still be arguing the 1,000 page stimulus, if they were truly honest legislators.

[tkhayes 348]

nothing 'dishonest' about it if the rules allow it.

I do not necessarily agree with it but the rules are the rules and both sides play that game equally well -

If you do not like the rules, then lobby to change them. I am lobbying to change health care - you can lobby to change the rules.

but the original post of this thread was not about 3am changes to the legislation.

I like bills that are bills, I hate adding 'provisions for wooden arrow companies' added to health care bills, it is pork barreling and such - and I constantly remind my representatives that I am tired of that kind of bill. A bill should be a bill. narrow and focused on the topic at hand.

If a bill has both gun control and environmental provision for offshore drilling or something like that - these things are obviously exclusive and should be in separate bills.

it is a fundamental problem with the basic system of legislation that exists in this country. But it appears to never be changing - what are you doing about it?

[marks2065 0]

Bill, it took Obama several months to pick a dog, isn't health care a little more important? doesn't it deserve at least as much time and thought?

[mnealtx 0]

Well, Chris Dodd *was* diagnosed with cancer, so maybe he's dropping him a hint to just go ahead and retire....

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[turtlespeed 226]

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Well, Chris Dodd *was* diagnosed with cancer, so maybe he's dropping him a hint to just go ahead and retire....

Does Chris meet the requirements for care?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[mnealtx 0]

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Well, Chris Dodd *was* diagnosed with cancer, so maybe he's dropping him a hint to just go ahead and retire....

Does Chris meet the requirements for care?

I'm sure Obama will say he might be better off taking a pain pill instead of getting the surgery...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[marks2065 0]

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Quote

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Well, Chris Dodd *was* diagnosed with cancer, so maybe he's dropping him a hint to just go ahead and retire....

Does Chris meet the requirements for care?

I'm sure Obama will say he might be better off taking a pain pill instead of getting the surgery...

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Dodd would be one I wouldn't mind seeing use the Obama health care program of assisted suicide to reduce health care costs for the elderly

[billvon 3,179]

>Dodd would be one I wouldn't mind seeing use the Obama health care
>program of assisted suicide to reduce health care costs for the elderly

I thought he had a "death board" that would decide to execute Dodd as a drain on society? Keep your conspiracy theories straight, man!

[Ron 10]

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In Reply To
I don't doubt this White House can and will resort to shutting down web sites they don't like. .

Got your tinfoil hat on?

Funny thing is you would have said the *EXACT* same thing about the WH shuttign down thigns they don't like (and said many things along the same lines) if Bush was in the WH.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kallend 2,231]

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Quote

In Reply To
I don't doubt this White House can and will resort to shutting down web sites they don't like. .

Got your tinfoil hat on?

Funny thing is you would have said the *EXACT* same thing about the WH shuttign down thigns they don't like (and said many things along the same lines) if Bush was in the WH.

Indeed I would - I doubt Bush's WH could have or would have shut down internet sites either. Tinfoil hatters are found on both extremes.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Ron 10]

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Indeed I would. I doubt Bush's WH could have or would have shut down internet sites either.

You need to read what I wrote again... You HAVE stated that the Bush WH would do such things.

Where is YOUR tin foil hat for those events?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kallend 2,231]

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Indeed I would. I doubt Bush's WH could have or would have shut down internet sites either.

You need to read what I wrote again... You HAVE stated that the Bush WH would do such things.

Where is YOUR tin foil hat for those events?

A few posts back it was "Funny thing is you would have said the *EXACT* same thing" and now it is "You HAVE stated..."

SO what exactly are you claiming here?

Where have I stated that Bush's WH had control of the internet?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Ron 10]

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SO what exactly are you claiming here?

Where have I stated that Bush's WH had control of the internet?

I am claiming that you have time after time made claims that the Bush WH did things to hide evidence and that you did that without on shred of data to back your position.

The irony is that you made those types of claims when Bush had the WH, but now you attack others for making those types of claims now that Obama has the WH.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kallend 2,231]

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Quote

SO what exactly are you claiming here?

Where have I stated that Bush's WH had control of the internet?

I am claiming that you have time after time made claims that the Bush WH did things to hide evidence and that you did that without on shred of data to back your position.

Can't find anything, eh?

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The irony is that you made those types of claims when Bush had the WH, but now you attack others for making those types of claims now that Obama has the WH.

Yet another claim now. First it was "would have" then it was "have" claimed the Bush WH would shut down internet sites, now its hiding evidence.

Fortunately we only have to scroll back a few posts to see what has actually written. It started with post #3

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"I don't doubt this White House can and will resort to shutting down web sites they don't like"

The only conclusion a reasonable person can draw is that you're thrashing about trying to get traction where there's none to be had.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[sundevil777 102]

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>I guess the democratic process is not what Obama wants.

I firmly believe in the right of every republican _and_ democrat to help solve our problems - or, failing that, to get the hell out of the way.

That is an incredibly crappy position. It assumes that any proposal is trying to solve a real problem, and that everyone should be in agreement to what the problems are.

It is not surprising that Obama would make the statement that started this thread. What is sad is that so few have critisized him for it. Blind support and all...

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[billvon 3,179]

>It assumes that any proposal is trying to solve a real problem, and that
>everyone should be in agreement to what the problems are.

No, it assumes that we do have problems, and that there are solutions. I am all for people who want to solve them. If people don't like the solution and have a better one, then by all means, suggest a better one. Trying to lie, distract and deceive people about both the problems and the potential solutions is not a good angle to take, and such people would be better advised to get out of the way instead of continuing down their politically-motivated, destructive path.

[azdiver 0]

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>http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare

Cool, an actual proposal instead of the endless zero-content attacks! Let's take a look at that proposal:

1. Making Health Care More Affordable for All Americans

This section talks about getting more affordable care. The plan:

-Cut taxes for people who do not have health care. That's great, but doesn't solve the problem of people who can't afford it to begin with. It also penalizes companies who provide health care for their employees; that is VERY bad news. Why punish the companies who are doing the right thing?

-Give money to people who have none (via tax credits) to assist with health care. OK, sounds good, although I must say I am surprised that republicans now support wealth redistribution.

-Group negotiation for health care. Sounds good.

-Cut the "waste, fraud and abuse" from Medicare. Meaningless words. Every politician for the past 50 years has been promising that. Tell me what they are going to cut and I'll believe it.

-Improve health savings accounts. Good idea! Let's see the details. How will they improve them?

-Tort reform. A great idea; let's see the details.

2. Making Health Care More Available & Accessible for All Americans.

This section lists all the ways that republicans will help Americans get coverage. How? By "encouraging" things. They will "encourage states" to create a Universal Access Program. They will be "encouraging employers" to move to opt-out. "Small businesses will be encouraged" to do the right thing by offering a small tax cut.

If "encouraging" people to do the right thing is going to work, they may as well just encourage people to not get sick. Solves the entire problem.

All in all, a few good ideas, but falls very far short of a real plan - and they need to think about how they will implement it. But it's a good starting point and I encourage them to work on turning it into a plan.

except for those he plans on taxing for not having insurance, as a penalty for not having it, since when is freedom of choice a crime? penalties are punishment for crimes, so what now every time i dont buy what Obama wants me to buy i will have to pay a fine, wtf is that shit.
posting source so no one has to ask and blast for not doing so, from the bill it self
SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.

`(a) Tax Imposed- In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of--

`(1) the taxpayer's modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over

`(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.

light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak

[kallend 2,231]

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reply]except for those he plans on taxing for not having insurance, as a penalty for not having it, since when is freedom of choice a crime?

Probably about the same time that the Constitution allowed the government to levy taxes that you have no choice about paying. And then there's Social Security, Medicare...

Nothing new here.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[azdiver 0]

i wasn't referring to taxes and other government imposed fees. Insurance is a product for sell, like a big mac, gov. should not be able to impose a tax on people for not buying a product for sell in a market place. we are supposed to be a free market, buying what each person wants or not buying. there should not be penalties for not buying something in a free market.

light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak