StreetScooby 5 #26 August 5, 2009 Quote I'm sure there are plenty of citizens there who don't like the way their country is being run. However, I'm also sure they don't dare express those feelings, for fear of the repressive regime and what they would do to dissidents. Have you read reports of North Korean defectors who make it to South Korea? They simply are unable to function in our society. It's marked, and extreme.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #27 August 6, 2009 NK is the most closed society on Earth. There are probably penguins with more global knowledge. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #28 August 6, 2009 I remember when Clinton played the sax on tv. I'm surprised he doesn't have a Youtube video of his trip. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #29 August 6, 2009 QuoteThere are plenty of dissidents in China, who don't openly display their disagreements. Likewise in Iran, and many other repressive nations. It's human nature, and psychology. I don't think the North Koreans are any different from any one else in that regard. Apples and oranges, John. In North Korea, there is total indoctrination that few of us can even fathom. Every apartment in Pyong Yang has a speaker broadcasting propaganda 24/7. It can be dimmed down at night, but never turned off. Only few privileged party apparatchik have a computer, internet, or a cell phone. The whole society is built around mind control. In China (a market economy BTW), the average Chinese call around the world don his/her cell phone, access the internet, etc... And there is lots of dissent (next to where I work, there are demonstrations against some government policy or another on a monthly basis). It is still an authoritarian regime, but more in the line of (most of) Europe in the 19th century. Nothing to do at all with the North Korean regime. I don't know about Iran, but I reckon it's closer to the Chinese type of authoritarianism than the North Korean's. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #30 August 6, 2009 Quote There are plenty of dissidents in China, who don't openly display their disagreements. Likewise in Iran, and many other repressive nations. It's human nature, and psychology. I don't think the North Koreans are any different from any one else in that regard. It is mind boggling, John. But seriously - it is how it is. Picture a society where the kids are all paralyzed at birth. Within a couple of generations everyone is paralyzed. On top of that, nobody has ever seen anyone walk. Mentally and culturally this is North Korea. They know nothing that the government does not tell them. They are like a mass of the lobotomized. It is a seriously scary fucking place. It'll take 50 years of work to even begin seeing progress with that place. John - I know it sounds ridiculous. It is very real. A country dominated by a juvenile megalomaniacal sociopath (just like his daddy) who is also drunk most of the time. For all intents and purposes he IS God. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyChile 0 #31 August 6, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteMy gut tells me that NK didn't want a the situation made any worse than it was, yet they could not back down to Obama and lose face. Hence, arrangements were made for the women to be pardoned and released under the condition that they were only to be turned over to BC. NK looks good, BC looks good, and Obama administration gets a fly out of their hair. Largely concur. DPRK is dealing with a fomenting succession crisis. Domestic politics of the elite, which in this case is the military elite and the Kim family [in addition to the sons, there's a half-brother and uncle that are political players], are dominant. (China doesn't seem to want a monarchy either.) Neither domestic actors could be seen as being "soft" on the US, and at the same time the two reporters were not strategically significant. The DPRK gets a 'fly out of its hair' as well. An added result of this is that, at least for the moment, the rumors of Kim's declining health will be put to rest. How so? I.e., I don't understand how you got to that conclusion. /Marg Well, my thinking is that if Clinton was allowed to see him and he was publicly seen with Clinton, after months of speculation about his health - it could be a way for them to show that, in fact, Kim is not as ill as the rumors indicated. If i remember correctly, the fact that Kim Jong Il was not seen publicly for a while was leading to rumors that he was knocking on death's door. Having him meet a former US president (who I would imagine was going to report his close-up impressions of the NK leader when he returned) would be a way to show that in fact he's not as bad as the outside world speculated. I would think that if he was truly in bad health, they wouldn't have made such theatrics about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #32 August 6, 2009 Hmmm … wonder who might be reading my SC posts. From March 2008: Quote Strategically, if I was advising Senator Clinton’s campaign I would advise against pursuit of that option [former Pres Bill Clinton as VP] for a variety of reasons, including but not limited to former President Clinton's greater effectiveness as a roving global ambassador … something of a 21st century James T. Kirk for goodwill toward America around this planet. I gotta start making bets. (Non-monetary, of course.) /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
