lawrocket 3 #1 August 5, 2009 It looks like he's gonna come back from NoKo with those two reporters who tried to sneak into NoKo. First - good on him. Second - if the Obama Admin didn't support it or did not coordinate it then it's a slap in the face to the Admin Third - and most likely - the Obama Admin was involved. And Hillary has just suffered the ultimate dressing down. What is going on with Sec of State Clinton when her husband is doing it? This is as much about Hillary Clinton and what I am perceiving as a near complete marginalization of her role. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #2 August 5, 2009 Shouldn't you be studying case law or a clients case instead of reading/watching world news and posting here? I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #3 August 5, 2009 QuoteThird - and most likely - the Obama Admin was involved. And Hillary has just suffered the ultimate dressing down.. I doubt it .. She's on tour in Africa at the moment, do ing her job. Bill is good at this sort of smoozing stuff. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #4 August 5, 2009 Quote What is going on with Sec of State Clinton when her husband is doing it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 426 #5 August 5, 2009 Wonder if ol' Bill got any phone numbers out of this. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #6 August 5, 2009 QuoteIt looks like he's gonna come back from NoKo with those two reporters who tried to sneak into NoKo. First - good on him. Why? Because he got more publicity from others work? Second - if the Obama Admin didn't support it or did not coordinate it then it's a slap in the face to the Admin The Obama administration has been steadily and quietly working on this since before the women were sentenced Third - and most likely - the Obama Admin was involved. And Hillary has just suffered the ultimate dressing down. It is very possible that she had very little direct involvement, leaving the footwork to subordinates What is going on with Sec of State Clinton when her husband is doing it? Hmm, let's see....maybe, just maybe, she is doing other work that her job entails? Nah, couldn't be that. This is as much about Hillary Clinton and what I am perceiving as a near complete marginalization of her role. Since details of deals like this are rarely made public we can only surmise what actually went on behind the scenes. My gut tells me that NK didn't want a the situation made any worse than it was, yet they could not back down to Obama and lose face. Hence, arrangements were made for the women to be pardoned and released under the condition that they were only to be turned over to BC. NK looks good, BC looks good, and Obama administration gets a fly out of their hair. Anybody who would buy the story that Bill just went over there, asked for their release, and NK immediately agreed is a fool.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #7 August 5, 2009 QuoteMy gut tells me that NK didn't want a the situation made any worse than it was, yet they could not back down to Obama and lose face. Hence, arrangements were made for the women to be pardoned and released under the condition that they were only to be turned over to BC. NK looks good, BC looks good, and Obama administration gets a fly out of their hair. Largely concur. DPRK is dealing with a fomenting succession crisis. Domestic politics of the elite, which in this case is the military elite and the Kim family [in addition to the sons, there's a half-brother and uncle that are political players], are dominant. (China doesn't seem to want a monarchy either.) Neither domestic actors could be seen as being "soft" on the US, and at the same time the two reporters were not strategically significant. The DPRK gets a 'fly out of its hair' as well. /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #8 August 5, 2009 I've read a bit more on it. Yes - I know that the admin would have to approve even travel to NoKo. It appears that Kim demanded a POTUS - past or present. Clinton was the best option for all sides. You are correct. Nothing to see here. With that - good on Bill Clinton. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #9 August 5, 2009 I hated to compare the womens' plight to "a fly in their hair", but to both governments the whole situation was equally pesky. I am glad they were able to work it out to everyones satisfaction and the women are back home with their families.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyChile 0 #10 August 5, 2009 QuoteQuoteMy gut tells me that NK didn't want a the situation made any worse than it was, yet they could not back down to Obama and lose face. Hence, arrangements were made for the women to be pardoned and released under the condition that they were only to be turned over to BC. NK looks good, BC looks good, and Obama administration gets a fly out of their hair. Largely concur. DPRK is dealing with a fomenting succession crisis. Domestic politics of the elite, which in this case is the military elite and the Kim family [in addition to the sons, there's a half-brother and uncle that are political players], are dominant. (China doesn't seem to want a monarchy either.) Neither domestic actors could be seen as being "soft" on the US, and at the same time the two reporters were not strategically significant. The DPRK gets a 'fly out of its hair' as well. /Marg An added result of this is that, at least for the moment, the rumors of Kim's declining health will be put to rest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #11 August 5, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteMy gut tells me that NK didn't want a the situation made any worse than it was, yet they could not back down to Obama and lose face. Hence, arrangements were made for the women to be pardoned and released under the condition that they were only to be turned over to BC. NK looks good, BC looks good, and Obama administration gets a fly out of their hair. Largely concur. DPRK is dealing with a fomenting succession crisis. Domestic politics of the elite, which in this case is the military elite and the Kim family [in addition to the sons, there's a half-brother and uncle that are political players], are dominant. (China doesn't seem to want a monarchy either.) Neither domestic actors could be seen as being "soft" on the US, and at the same time the two reporters were not strategically significant. The DPRK gets a 'fly out of its hair' as well. An added result of this is that, at least for the moment, the rumors of Kim's declining health will be put to rest. How so? I.e., I don't understand how you got to that conclusion. /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #12 August 5, 2009 QuoteSince details of deals like this are rarely made public we can only surmise what actually went on behind the scenes. My gut tells me that NK didn't want a the situation made any worse than it was, yet they could not back down to Obama and lose face. Hence, arrangements were made for the women to be pardoned and released under the condition that they were only to be turned over to BC. NK looks good, BC looks good, and Obama administration gets a fly out of their hair. Anybody who would buy the story that Bill just went over there, asked for their release, and NK immediately agreed is a fool. Excellent analysis, Belgian_Draft! I'm waiting for the news to drop on what concessions Obama made in secret in order to secure their release - you can bet that Kim didn't do it for nothing... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #13 August 5, 2009 JohnRich, I'd guess that this deal went down so that BOTH sides wouldn't have to make too many concessions re. other issues (ie, the NK nuke issue). Having Bill Clinton go in there on his own (officially, anyway) distances both Obama & Kim from having to make any unpallatable concessions. I would say that it was a generally successful diplomatic maneuver for everyone. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #14 August 5, 2009 Maybe Kim invited Bill because He's So Ronery and needed the company ....... Clicky (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #15 August 5, 2009 I have a feeling that China has had a bit to do with it, as well. China has indicated its displeasure to Kim and his son. "Cut the shit, NoKo. We've got a lot of money tied up in the States." All Jong I'll needs is press coverage of Imperialist Clinton groveling and leaving in shame... Today, Sec. of State Clinton said not to expect much warming in the relationship. For anyone who knows much about NoKo, that's lik saying not to expect significan melting of the South Pole icecap any time soon. The People of NoKo are professionally trained to be nuts. I used to think that there is some form of citizen dissent in any government. Then I learned about NoKo. I was wrong. You'd have to try to literally reprogram a whole freaking country. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #16 August 5, 2009 QuoteThe People of NoKo are professionally trained to be nuts. I used to think that there is some form of citizen dissent in any government. Then I learned about NoKo. I was wrong. You'd have to try to literally reprogram a whole freaking country. I'm sure there are plenty of citizens there who don't like the way their country is being run. However, I'm also sure they don't dare express those feelings, for fear of the repressive regime and what they would do to dissidents. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmfenaughty 0 #17 August 5, 2009 Quote Wonder if ol' Bill got any phone numbers out of this. Phone numbers ... with his reputation I'm bettin he got a lewinsky out of it 99% of the people on this earth are sheep ... dare to be different Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #18 August 5, 2009 Quote I'm sure there are plenty of citizens there who don't like the way their country is being run. However, I'm also sure they don't dare express those feelings, for fear of the repressive regime and what they would do to dissidents. This is the scary thing, John. There aren't. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #19 August 5, 2009 Quote Wonder if ol' Bill got any phone numbers out of this. fark.com: "Bill Clinton heads to North Korea to pick up two women." "There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #20 August 5, 2009 Quote Quote Wonder if ol' Bill got any phone numbers out of this. Phone numbers ... with his reputation I'm bettin he got a lewinsky out of it Aren't too many women with that build in North Korea - he'd have to work hard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #21 August 5, 2009 QuoteMaybe Kim invited Bill because He's So Ronery and needed the company ....... Clicky You say that in jest, but I think there is something to it. Note how quickly Bill's visit got results. I get the impression Kim is just an adolescent in an adult body who is starved for attention, which is the motivation for all the inflammatory words/actions. Once he got an in-person audience with a former POTUS, he got what he wanted, and we got what we wanted. Governments worldwide should note that when dealing with this overage child, giving him personal attention is a hell of a lot more effective than threatening to spank him."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 426 #22 August 5, 2009 Quote Quote Wonder if ol' Bill got any phone numbers out of this. Phone numbers ... with his reputation I'm bettin he got a lewinsky out of it I was trying to be nice, but yeah...yer right.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #23 August 5, 2009 QuoteQuote I'm sure there are plenty of citizens there who don't like the way their country is being run. However, I'm also sure they don't dare express those feelings, for fear of the repressive regime and what they would do to dissidents. This is the scary thing, John. There aren't. How can you know that, with such certainty? There are plenty of dissidents in China, who don't openly display their disagreements. Likewise in Iran, and many other repressive nations. It's human nature, and psychology. I don't think the North Koreans are any different from any one else in that regard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #24 August 5, 2009 Quote Wonder if ol' Bill got any phone numbers out of this. [Austin Powers voice]Asian twins... check[/AP] Most of the time, stuff like this is handled by diplomats of the country involved. news Quote "Perhaps they will now be willing to start talking to us" and other nations, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said following the release of the two reporters who work for former Vice President Al Gore's television company. Employees of Al Gore ? No strings pulled there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 426 #25 August 5, 2009 Quote Quote Wonder if ol' Bill got any phone numbers out of this. [Austin Powers voice]Asian twins... check[/AP] Most of the time, stuff like this is handled by diplomats of the country involved. news Quote "Perhaps they will now be willing to start talking to us" and other nations, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said following the release of the two reporters who work for former Vice President Al Gore's television company. Employees of Al Gore ? No strings pulled there. They are reporters working for Gore's "green tv" network.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
