can doctors be forced to accept government insurance?

[TrophyHusband 0]

let say that obama gets what he wants when it comes to healthcare reform. many doctors may simply choose not to accept the public option just as now many choose not to accept medicare or tricare. then what? lets not forget that, as much as some of you loathe the idea, a physician's practice is a business, and it has to make money to stay afloat. obama's ideas about how doctors get paid under his plan just seem like a poor financial risk. would congress also have to enact a law requiring all doctors to accept government insurance?

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[mnealtx 0]

I don't think they'll be given the option, no.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Ion01 2]

From what I understand the new healthcare plan covers all doctors and thier practice. It determines how they are to be payed and their license to practice can be taken if they don't follow the government guidelines and mandates. This also brings up other issues such as if doctors will be required to perform abortions against thier moral convictions under the threat of loosing thier license. We don't know yet and they won't answer that question either which to me means they probably will. Whether you agree with abortion or not that is just an example of how thier freedoms will be totally taken away. As you said, it is a business and we are supposed to have the freedom to run our business the way we want to. If you don't like how one doctor runs his then go somewhere else. Thats what I did until I found a great doctor. Ultimately, like everything else the feds are doing, this is about freedom. Healthcare is not a right.

[Ion01 2]

Also, you won't have a choice either. I know obama claims you will but that is if you are willing to pay the government fine for not using it. Also, the bill will also control the frequency of which you are allowed to have a child! The type of care you will be given will be determined by your worth as a contributor to the USA! So if you are old and retired you are no longer a contributor and a drain on society. Sorry, the government has decided your life is not worth the money.
Some other things that may be on the way in regards to healthcare.
"President Obama's Science Czar, John Holdren, took a controversial and amoral approach to the science of population by recommending mass compulsory sterilization and even forced abortion (and/or forced marriages) under certain circumstances."
This man believes its okay to kill babies up to two years old because they are not "human beings". Lets also not forget that obama believes that its okay to not provide care to babies that lived through the abortion process.
If this passes I will be working on leaving this country! Its it not longer the USA. The constitution no longer has any meaning or power. This is not the country i grew up in and its not the country that I am going to support or be crushed under!

[TrophyHusband 0]

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"President Obama's Science Czar, John Holdren, took a controversial and amoral approach to the science of population by recommending mass compulsory sterilization and even forced abortion (and/or forced marriages) under certain circumstances."

lets not get crazy here, that kind of stuff isn't going to happen. as far as doctors being forced to do abortions, i doubt that will happen either. my wife, for one, will give up her medical license before being forced to perform an electie abortion. countless other doctors will do the same thing. add that to the number of older experienced docs that will just retire if obama gets his way, and you will have a healthcare system in this country even more broken than what we have today.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[Andy9o8 2]

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would congress also have to enact a law requiring all doctors to accept government insurance?

Possibly, but I have doubts that such a law simply forcing all private-sector doctors and medical facilities to accept government insurance would be Constitutional. (For example, private-sector doctors currently are not required to accept Medicaid .) And I don't think the federal government could threaten to yank doctors' licenses, either, since licensing is a state function, not a federal one.

But sometimes the federal government, unable to control certain state functions directly, exerts its will over states via the back door, such as by threatening to cut off federal funds to states unless the states comply with federal policy - (example, cutting off a state's federal highway money if it opts out of a 55 mph speed limit). So, conceivably, the Congress could give the states an ultimatum: either make acceptance of govt insurance a condition of holding a medical license in that state, or be penalized with the loss of some kind of federal funding. Federal court, here we come!

[Ion01 2]

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"President Obama's Science Czar, John Holdren, took a controversial and amoral approach to the science of population by recommending mass compulsory sterilization and even forced abortion (and/or forced marriages) under certain circumstances."

lets not get crazy here, that kind of stuff isn't going to happen. as far as doctors being forced to do abortions, i doubt that will happen either. my wife, for one, will give up her medical license before being forced to perform an electie abortion. countless other doctors will do the same thing. add that to the number of older experienced docs that will just retire if obama gets his way, and you will have a healthcare system in this country even more broken than what we have today.

Killing jews because of thier race....that could never happen. Who would actually be willing do to that and for what purpose? Doctors experimenting on jews. Thier doctors, they heal not kill. They wouldn't do that. There is no way a government would or could make such things happen. These laws are just for the good of society and mankind and they could never result in that kind of thing.......

It seems we all learn about history in school but so few actually learn from it.

[Ion01 2]

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would congress also have to enact a law requiring all doctors to accept government insurance?

Possibly, but I have doubts that such a law simply forcing all private-sector doctors and medical facilities to accept government insurance would be Constitutional. (For example, private-sector doctors currently are not required to accept Medicaid .) And I don't think the federal government could threaten to yank doctors' licenses, either, since licensing is a state function, not a federal one.

But sometimes the federal government, unable to control certain state functions directly, exerts its will over states via the back door, such as by threatening to cut off federal funds to states unless the states comply with federal policy - (example, cutting off a state's federal highway money if it opts out of a 55 mph speed limit). So, conceivably, the Congress could give the states an ultimatum: either make acceptance of govt insurance a condition of holding a medical license in that state, or be penalized with the loss of some kind of federal funding. Federal court, here we come!

WASHINGTON, D.C. - Members of the Oklahoma Congressional Delegation today sent a letter to U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder seeking justification and clarification for a letter the Department of Justice (DOJ) sent to Oklahoma Attorney General Drew Edmondson threatening Oklahoma with a loss of federal funding if the state passed a constitutional amendment making English the official language of the state.

The original DOJ letter, characterized by delegation members as dubiously timed at the peak of legislative debate, advises the state that "implementation of this [English-only] amendment may conflict with Oklahoma's obligations to protect the civil rights of limited English proficient (LEP) persons."

Dated April 14, 2009 from Acting Assistant Attorney General Loretta King, the DOJ letter states, "As you know, recipients of federal financial assistance must comply with various civil rights statutes, including Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964…which prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color, and national origin." The letter continues, "State agencies and other entities in Oklahoma that receive federal financial assistance thus would be precluded by federal law from abiding by an English-only requirement where it conflicts with their obligations under Title VI."

The Oklahoma Congressional Delegation's letter to Holder points out that several other states have passed similar legislation and asks if they too have been "accused by the Department of Justice to be in violation with Title VI, or formally threatened with funding termination." The delegation letter asks for an explanation for what prompted the DOJ to write the state of Oklahoma on this issue and seeks explanation for what funds would be eliminated should Oklahomans pass the English only amendment.

Besides, its not like the federal government has any problem not following the constitution. They haven't for over 100 years!

[FreeflyChile 0]

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would congress also have to enact a law requiring all doctors to accept government insurance?

Possibly, but I have doubts that such a law simply forcing all private-sector doctors and medical facilities to accept government insurance would be Constitutional. (For example, private-sector doctors currently are not required to accept Medicaid .) And I don't think the federal government could threaten to yank doctors' licenses, either, since licensing is a state function, not a federal one.

But sometimes the federal government, unable to control certain state functions directly, exerts its will over states via the back door, such as by threatening to cut off federal funds to states unless the states comply with federal policy - (example, cutting off a state's federal highway money if it opts out of a 55 mph speed limit). So, conceivably, the Congress could give the states an ultimatum: either make acceptance of govt insurance a condition of holding a medical license in that state, or be penalized with the loss of some kind of federal funding. Federal court, here we come!

WASHINGTON, D.C. - Members of the Oklahoma Congressional Delegation today sent a letter to U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder seeking justification and clarification for a letter the Department of Justice (DOJ) sent to Oklahoma Attorney General Drew Edmondson threatening Oklahoma with a loss of federal funding if the state passed a constitutional amendment making English the official language of the state.

The original DOJ letter, characterized by delegation members as dubiously timed at the peak of legislative debate, advises the state that "implementation of this [English-only] amendment may conflict with Oklahoma's obligations to protect the civil rights of limited English proficient (LEP) persons."

Dated April 14, 2009 from Acting Assistant Attorney General Loretta King, the DOJ letter states, "As you know, recipients of federal financial assistance must comply with various civil rights statutes, including Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964…which prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color, and national origin." The letter continues, "State agencies and other entities in Oklahoma that receive federal financial assistance thus would be precluded by federal law from abiding by an English-only requirement where it conflicts with their obligations under Title VI."

The Oklahoma Congressional Delegation's letter to Holder points out that several other states have passed similar legislation and asks if they too have been "accused by the Department of Justice to be in violation with Title VI, or formally threatened with funding termination." The delegation letter asks for an explanation for what prompted the DOJ to write the state of Oklahoma on this issue and seeks explanation for what funds would be eliminated should Oklahomans pass the English only amendment.

Besides, its not like the federal government has any problem not following the constitution. They haven't for over 100 years!

I thought everyone in Oklahoma was a limited English person!

[Ion01 2]

I should have known better than to expect a bunch of skydivers to be serious.

[TrophyHusband 0]

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Possibly, but I have doubts that such a law simply forcing all private-sector doctors and medical facilities to accept government insurance would be Constitutional.

i wondered about the constitutionallity of it, but decided not include it in my original post because i honestly don't know what part of the constitution it would violate.

as far as federal government taking the back door, there are a few states that are getting a little tired of the feds getting in to their business. in the end, i think all of this discussion is purely academic. if anything does get passed, it will have little meaningful effect.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[TrophyHusband 0]

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Killing jews because of thier race....that could never happen. Who would actually be willing do to that and for what purpose? Doctors experimenting on jews. Thier doctors, they heal not kill. They wouldn't do that. There is no way a government would or could make such things happen. These laws are just for the good of society and mankind and they could never result in that kind of thing.......

It seems we all learn about history in school but so few actually learn from it.

2009 united states is a far cry from 1940's germany.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[turtlespeed 226]

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"President Obama's Science Czar, John Holdren, took a controversial and amoral approach to the science of population by recommending mass compulsory sterilization and even forced abortion (and/or forced marriages) under certain circumstances."

lets not get crazy here, that kind of stuff isn't going to happen. as far as doctors being forced to do abortions, i doubt that will happen either. my wife, for one, will give up her medical license before being forced to perform an electie abortion. countless other doctors will do the same thing. add that to the number of older experienced docs that will just retire if obama gets his way, and you will have a healthcare system in this country even more broken than what we have today.

And the problem then becomes that since a mass exodus of moral doctors left the practice, there is a medical field FULL of like minded immorol practitioners.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 226]

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Killing jews because of thier race....that could never happen. Who would actually be willing do to that and for what purpose? Doctors experimenting on jews. Thier doctors, they heal not kill. They wouldn't do that. There is no way a government would or could make such things happen. These laws are just for the good of society and mankind and they could never result in that kind of thing.......

It seems we all learn about history in school but so few actually learn from it.

2009 united states is a far cry from 1940's germany.

Not as far as you might think - Extremist Left is not that far from extremist right.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Ion01 2]

what about 1930's germany or 1920's germany? It started somewhere.

[Ion01 2]

are we really that far from a 1940's germany?

Patients turning to Oregon's state-run health program for assistance were denied treatment and urged to consider suicide instead.

53-year-old Randy Stroup of Dexter, Ore., looking for assistance to pay for his prostate cancer treatment, turned to the state-run Oregon Health Plan. Plan administrators responded with a letter informing Stroup the goverment would not cover his treatment, but it would pay for physician-assisted suicide.

"It dropped my chin to the floor," Stroup told FOX News. "[How could they] not pay for medication that would help my life, and yet offer to pay to end my life?"

The letter, which follows guidelines set by Oregon's state legislature, has been sent to other cancer patients, urging them to consider suicide rather than compete with other patients for the limited pool of taxpayer money.

The Obama health care takeover currently being written in the House includes a section requiring the sick and elderly to attend meetings on "end of life planning."

[kelpdiver 2]

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are we really that far from a 1940's germany?

uh, yes. We are.

It's stupid statements like this that lead to Godwin's.

[pirana 0]

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Also, you won't have a choice either. I know obama claims you will but that is if you are willing to pay the government fine for not using it. Also, the bill will also control the frequency of which you are allowed to have a child! The type of care you will be given will be determined by your worth as a contributor to the USA! So if you are old and retired you are no longer a contributor and a drain on society. Sorry, the government has decided your life is not worth the money.
Some other things that may be on the way in regards to healthcare.
"President Obama's Science Czar, John Holdren, took a controversial and amoral approach to the science of population by recommending mass compulsory sterilization and even forced abortion (and/or forced marriages) under certain circumstances."
This man believes its okay to kill babies up to two years old because they are not "human beings". Lets also not forget that obama believes that its okay to not provide care to babies that lived through the abortion process.
If this passes I will be working on leaving this country! Its it not longer the USA. The constitution no longer has any meaning or power. This is not the country i grew up in and its not the country that I am going to support or be crushed under!

YOWZA, that is extreme. Got a reliable source for that? Hard to believe such a polished political machine would bring somebody that says that kind of shit on board.

As far as forcing doctors; I don't think there will be much of that; other than what somebody else mentioned about financial threats to their income stream.

Such as the way it is today - if you accept Medicare patients, you must accept Medicare payments.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Darius11 12]

If they are going to get paid the same money as any other insurance why wouldn’t they take it?

Last I checked Doctors take an oath to care about humane life. If they want to use people’s health as a bargaining chip I suggest they get a new job.

Stock borker maybe??????

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[turtlespeed 226]

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If they are going to get paid the same money as any other insurance why wouldn’t they take it?

Last I checked Doctors take an oath to care about humane life. If they want to use people’s health as a bargaining chip I suggest they get a new job.

Stock borker maybe??????

I believe they would . . . quit that is.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[TomAiello 26]

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If they are going to get paid the same money as any other insurance why wouldn’t they take it?

Same reasons they decide not to take any other insurance, or medicare. They don't like the pay rate, or they don't want to deal with the paperwork headaches. Or any other reason they decide to. They are, after all, free human beings, and like you and I, they can decide who they wish to do business with (or not).

Any idea how many medicare claims get returned to the doctor unpaid because of paperwork issues? Or how hard it is to get medicare to explain what they want on that paperwork? Or how many full time employees an average medical practice has dedicated just to that paperwork, driving up costs and taking energy away from actual patient care?

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Last I checked Doctors take an oath to care about humane life.

You ought to look into that again. I don't think it's relevant to this debate, but the hippocratic oath (which I think is what you are referencing) is not mandatory at any stage of medical education or licensing.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Ion01 2]

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If they are going to get paid the same money as any other insurance why wouldn’t they take it?

Last I checked Doctors take an oath to care about humane life. If they want to use people’s health as a bargaining chip I suggest they get a new job.

Stock borker maybe??????

If you have been paying attention to whats going on you would know that one of the huge things about this bill is that it changes how and for what they are payed for.

[rehmwa 2]

Seems the most likely route for Doctors to take if we go down this scary path is for them to reject all insurance and put the requirement on the patients.

The patient pays directly, and then that patient has to go to the government to collect and navigate the system to get (some) of their money back.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[TomAiello 26]

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Seems the most likely route for Doctors to take if we go down this scary path is for them to reject all insurance and put the requirement on the patients.

That's already a growing trend among doctors. Perhaps unsurprisingly, it appears to be reducing the cost of medical care for those patients whose doctors use this model.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TrophyHusband 0]

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Last I checked Doctors take an oath to care about humane life. If they want to use people’s health as a bargaining chip I suggest they get a new job.

Stock borker maybe??????

how exactly are they using people's health as a bargaining chip? from a business (or nonprofit organization) standpoint, you still have overhead. who will pay malpractice premiums, salaries for nurses, tech, and adminitrative personnel? who will pay the electric bill, water bill, garbage and cleaning services? who is going to cover the lease for the office space, payment on medical equipment, or medical supplies? after all of that, you still have to pay the doctor. from a personal standpoint, doctors and their families make huge sacrifices both financially and with time do what they do. medical school isn't cheap, and the hours spent there and in residency leave very little time for a personal life. in practice a doctor gives up quite a few nights and weekends, not to mention holidays, kids' birthdays, and three day weekends. families have to make these sacrifices too. it pretty much sucks when mommy isn't home on christmas morning, and i know a lot of doctors of spouses who have sacrificed their careers in order to stay home or work only part time in order to serve as a support system for a doctor. are you suggesting that doctors shouldn't be compensated for what they do? its also not like doctors are rich either. sure, they are past the point of living paycheck to paycheck, but most are still middle class. for you to suggest tthat doctors need to find another job tells me you know very little about the life of a doctor.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com