turtlespeed 226 #51 July 30, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Possibly, but I have doubts that such a law simply forcing all private-sector doctors and medical facilities to accept government insurance would be Constitutional. i wondered about the constitutionallity of it, but decided not include it in my original post because i honestly don't know what part of the constitution it would violate. as far as federal government taking the back door, there are a few states that are getting a little tired of the feds getting in to their business. in the end, i think all of this discussion is purely academic. if anything does get passed, it will have little meaningful effect. What evidence do you have that the plan under consideration includes a measure forcing medics to take govt. insurance? Read the bill. OK, I did that. Now tell us which division and title FORCES medics to accept govt. insurance. You read ALL the pages of the bill? He'd be the only one in the country to have done so. I doubt that he'd be the only one, but I'm just wondering if he understood the document, without two lawyers to help him. [Watchout for the sarcasm]. . . and if he did understand it all without the help of the lawyers - why isn't he like the leader of the world or something?[/sarcasm]I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #52 July 30, 2009 Quote I'm confident you knew what he meant and are just being argumentative. Who, Kallend? Deliberately misconstruing a point just to be argumentative? Who'd have ever thought?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #53 July 30, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Possibly, but I have doubts that such a law simply forcing all private-sector doctors and medical facilities to accept government insurance would be Constitutional. i wondered about the constitutionallity of it, but decided not include it in my original post because i honestly don't know what part of the constitution it would violate. as far as federal government taking the back door, there are a few states that are getting a little tired of the feds getting in to their business. in the end, i think all of this discussion is purely academic. if anything does get passed, it will have little meaningful effect. What evidence do you have that the plan under consideration includes a measure forcing medics to take govt. insurance? Read the bill. OK, I did that. Now tell us which division and title FORCES medics to accept govt. insurance. You read ALL the pages of the bill? The fact that you ask that question in this context indicates two things: one - you don't know how bills are written, and two - you haven't looked at it at all. So how about telling us which division and title FORCES medics to accept government insurance.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #54 July 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhat evidence do you have that the plan under consideration includes a measure forcing medics to take govt. insurance? Willie Sutton. Nice of you to equate medics with bank robbers. Spare me your oh-so-pious ethics valuations - you yourself said that Sutton went where the money was.Was he forced, or did he do it voluntarily? If you read the thread title you might get a clue. Figure out what insurance doctors are going to take once fed.gov is the only game in town and get back to us, since we're speaking of clues and the capture of same. Here's a net - you quite evidently need it. So you haven't read the bill either. OK.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,588 #55 July 30, 2009 Quote Figure out what insurance doctors are going to take once fed.gov is the only game in town Even in England (the source of all socialistic medical evil, I believe ) there are a lot of private physicians. According to wikipedia, the number of private doctors on Harley Street has doubled just since the start of the National Health Service. Why would the US be less likely to have a similar effect, where people who can pay choose other doctors? There are problems with an entirely government-administered healthcare system. But arguing about strawmen doesn't really further the understanding. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #56 July 30, 2009 Do you happen to have any numbers on costs for those private doctors in the UK? Either relative to the US, or relative to the UK before the NHS? I'd also be interested in finding out how the rates they charge compare with the NHS compensation rates paid to other doctors, if you have any idea where that information could be tracked down.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,588 #57 July 30, 2009 Nope, sure don't, sorry. Either John Kallend or Jamile might know. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #58 July 30, 2009 QuoteDo you happen to have any numbers on costs for those private doctors in the UK? Either relative to the US, or relative to the UK before the NHS? I'd also be interested in finding out how the rates they charge compare with the NHS compensation rates paid to other doctors, if you have any idea where that information could be tracked down. Surely that is a different thread having nothing to do with the use of force on medical doctors.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chasteh 0 #59 July 30, 2009 >(edit:) Extremist Left is not that far from extremist right. Nailed it. Both tend to resort to fascism to implement policies and enforce them. Well said. Scratch that. >Not as far as you might think. Yea, as if 2009 U.S. were comparable. Almost missed that. Maybe when Obama rounds all the Jews up and buries them in our backyards you will have a comparison. Not yet though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #60 July 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteDo you happen to have any numbers on costs for those private doctors in the UK? Either relative to the US, or relative to the UK before the NHS? I'd also be interested in finding out how the rates they charge compare with the NHS compensation rates paid to other doctors, if you have any idea where that information could be tracked down. Surely that is a different thread having nothing to do with the use of force on medical doctors. Ok. I was just asking Wendy because she had posted some information, with a link, and I thought she might have more. I didn't want to start a new thread titled "Hey WMW, read this!" to ask--it seemed more logical to just ask here.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #61 July 31, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteI'm told that my group is not yet considering me for partner because I'm not yet "meeting overhead" because of my choices on patient selection and how I have a lower "production" (as calculated by COLLECTIONS). What changes for you when you make partner? Generally speaking, in professional firms, partners are "management", while non-partner associates are mere employees. Policy is usually set mainly, if not solely, by management. (Also, there usually are differences in the method/amount of partners' compensation, as contrasted with non-partner employees' compensation.) Exactly. I am "just an employee." I have no say with respect to policy or ultimate decisions of the group. I have opportunity to offer my opinion, but no vote (other than threatening to and ultimately walking away) Now... with respect to my patients, I have always been given the right to treat them as I feel is appropriate (meaning the GROUP doesn't limit my practice decisions... but insurance, INCLUDING medicaid, does) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #62 July 31, 2009 QuoteNow tell us which division and title FORCES medics to accept govt. insurance. do you have anything of value to add to the discussion, or are you just here to divert and distract as usual? "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #63 July 31, 2009 QuoteQuoteNow tell us which division and title FORCES medics to accept govt. insurance. do you have anything of value to add to the discussion, or are you just here to divert and distract as usual? Answered your own question.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #64 July 31, 2009 Quote Quote Now tell us which division and title FORCES medics to accept govt. insurance. do you have anything of value to add to the discussion, or are you just here to divert and distract as usual? Just as I thought, you bluster because you can't find one.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #65 July 31, 2009 i don't have to find one because i never claimed it was in there. i threw out a hypothetical for discussion. surely you realize that and are just trying to be difficult. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #66 July 31, 2009 Quote i don't have to find one because i never claimed it was in there. i threw out a hypothetical for discussion. surely you realize that and are just trying to be difficult. Me? ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ion01 2 #67 July 31, 2009 Quote Quote Figure out what insurance doctors are going to take once fed.gov is the only game in town Even in England (the source of all socialistic medical evil, I believe ) there are a lot of private physicians. According to wikipedia, the number of private doctors on Harley Street has doubled just since the start of the National Health Service. Why would the US be less likely to have a similar effect, where people who can pay choose other doctors? There are problems with an entirely government-administered healthcare system. But arguing about strawmen doesn't really further the understanding. Wendy P. this would probably happen but what it actually does is create a larger gap in care between the rich and others instead of making the gap smaller like they are claiming it will do. Obama himself said that if his mother needed a hip replacement she wouldn't get it but he would pay for it......because he is rich! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,588 #68 July 31, 2009 Currently the biggest gap is between the people with no coverage (i.e. ER visits, non-payment of bills, and clinics), and the people with coverage. The gap between those is pretty big. There will always be a gap between people with different levels of coverage. Even in most big corporations, the executives get a different medical plan from hoi polloi. Right now the rich can pay for whatever care they want. In the future, the rich will be able to pay for whatever care they want. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #69 July 31, 2009 QuoteRight now the rich can pay for whatever care they want. In the future, the rich will be able to pay for whatever care they want. That's not really the issue. The question is where the "rich" line is drawn. At what income will people be able to purchase care to their satisfaction? The concern is that currently that line is drawn somewhere around the bottom of the middle class, and that some plans being considered might move it up much further, so that it really would be only the truly wealthy who could purchase the care they wanted.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,588 #70 July 31, 2009 Thanks for the clarification; I was reading strawman where one wasn't being proposed. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #71 July 31, 2009 Quotei don't have to find one because i never claimed it was in there. i threw out a hypothetical for discussion. surely you realize that and are just trying to be difficult. OK, just so long as we all know that the thread you started during discussions in Congress on health care reform has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the issue at hand.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #72 July 31, 2009 QuoteQuotei don't have to find one because i never claimed it was in there. i threw out a hypothetical for discussion. surely you realize that and are just trying to be difficult. OK, just so long as we all know that the thread you started during discussions in Congress on health care reform has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the issue at hand. It was evident from reading the OP that he was discussing a hypothetical - glad you caught up.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #73 July 31, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuotei don't have to find one because i never claimed it was in there. i threw out a hypothetical for discussion. surely you realize that and are just trying to be difficult. OK, just so long as we all know that the thread you started during discussions in Congress on health care reform has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the issue at hand. It was evident from reading the OP that he was discussing a hypothetical - glad you caught up. From the OP: "let say that obama gets what he wants when it comes to healthcare reform." Yes, I can see how that has absolutely nothing to do with anything now going on in DC.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #74 July 31, 2009 QuoteQuotei don't have to find one because i never claimed it was in there. i threw out a hypothetical for discussion. surely you realize that and are just trying to be difficult. OK, just so long as we all know that the thread you started during discussions in Congress on health care reform has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the issue at hand. if you don't think it is a valid question, then by all means feel free not to participate in this discussion. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #75 July 31, 2009 Quote Quote Quote i don't have to find one because i never claimed it was in there. i threw out a hypothetical for discussion. surely you realize that and are just trying to be difficult. OK, just so long as we all know that the thread you started during discussions in Congress on health care reform has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the issue at hand. if you don't think it is a valid question, then by all means feel free not to participate in this discussion. So when you wrote "let say that obama gets what he wants when it comes to healthcare reform" in the OP it wasn't context for the thread, it was just a meaningless throwaway line. If you say so... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
