mnealtx 0 #1 July 27, 2009 Let's say that fed.gov has decreed that healthcare is now a human right. Now, let's say that every doctor in the country decided they didn't WANT to be doctors anymore, and quit. What happened to your "right" to healthcare? How are you going to claim it when there's nobody to provide it? Healthcare is a COMMODITY, not a right.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #2 July 27, 2009 Let's say that fed.gov has decreed that bearing arms is now a human right. Now, let's say that every arms manufacturer in the country decided they didn't WANT to make arms anymore, and quit. What happened to your "right" to bear arms? How are you going to claim it when there's nobody to provide them? Arms are a COMMODITY, not a right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #3 July 27, 2009 you are correct. Arms are a commodity. THE RIGHT TO BEAR arms is a right.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gregpso 1 #4 July 27, 2009 Thats funny we have univeral health care in Australia.... strange people still want to become Doctors and they still earn a good living. If folk want extra coverage they can buy private health insurance. Works OK here why not over there ?I tend to be a bit different. enjoyed my time in the sport or is it an industry these days ?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #5 July 27, 2009 Quoteyou are correct. Arms are a commodity. THE RIGHT TO BEAR arms is a right. Then doctors are a commodity. Healthcare is a right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #6 July 27, 2009 Yeah, I'm still looking in the Bill of Rights that specifically states that health care is a right... ...nope... ...nothing there.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #7 July 27, 2009 QuoteYeah, I'm still looking in the Bill of Rights that specifically states that health care is a right... ...nope... ...nothing there. Nor will you find anything in the Constitution specifically making, for example, a universal public school education a right. Yet it is. Americans define what their rights are, and they do it in any number of ways. It is a continuous process, not a static one, dependent solely on the Constitution. Yes, the Constitution is one source of Americans' rights, but it is only one source out of many. Health care will be a right in the US when enough Americans decide that it is through the democratic process - and that includes public debate, such as off-the-wall blogs like this Forum - and it is formally codified into law. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,137 #8 July 27, 2009 QuoteYeah, I'm still looking in the Bill of Rights that specifically states that health care is a right... ...nope... ...nothing there. Life, liberty and the pursit of happiness aren't in there either. I guess those dudes that signed the Declaration got it all wrong. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #9 July 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteyou are correct. Arms are a commodity. THE RIGHT TO BEAR arms is a right. Then doctors are a commodity. Wrong - we fought a tiddly little war about 150 years ago over that very principle. Quote Healthcare is a right. Sweet - have fun with your "Do-it-yourself surgery kit", then. Make sure you pass on the formulation for Lipitor when you re-discover how to make that, as well. If it is something that is provided by another human being, it's NOT a right. Why else do you think that the BOR is written as RESTRICTIONS on government???Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #10 July 27, 2009 QuoteLife, liberty and the pursit of happiness aren't in there either. I guess those dudes that signed the Declaration got it all wrong. Still trying to find where it says we have to pay for others health care. I cannot find it!If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,137 #11 July 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteLife, liberty and the pursit of happiness aren't in there either. I guess those dudes that signed the Declaration got it all wrong. Still trying to find where it says we have to pay for others health care. I cannot find it! What part of "That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." don't you understand?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #12 July 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteYeah, I'm still looking in the Bill of Rights that specifically states that health care is a right... ...nope... ...nothing there. Health care will be a right in the US when enough Americans decide that it is through the democratic process - and that includes public debate, such as off-the-wall blogs like this Forum - and it is formally codified into law. Like that "right to schooling", you mean? You know, that's a pretty sweet deal. I'll have to go sign up at the State college for my free education - after all, you DID say it was a right!!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #13 July 27, 2009 QuoteWhat part of "That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." don't you understand? Where in there does it say we have to pay for others health insurance?If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #14 July 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteLife, liberty and the pursit of happiness aren't in there either. I guess those dudes that signed the Declaration got it all wrong. Still trying to find where it says we have to pay for others health care. I cannot find it! What part of "That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." don't you understand? Secure != provideMike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #15 July 27, 2009 QuoteWhat happened to your "right" to bear arms? It's still present. Pick up a stick in your back yard, and that's an "arm". Same goes for your "right" to healthcare. Grab a bandaid at Walgreens--that's "healthcare." A right to bear arms does not mean a right to have the government buy you the gun of your choice.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,137 #16 July 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteYeah, I'm still looking in the Bill of Rights that specifically states that health care is a right... ...nope... ...nothing there. Health care will be a right in the US when enough Americans decide that it is through the democratic process - and that includes public debate, such as off-the-wall blogs like this Forum - and it is formally codified into law. Like that "right to schooling", you mean? You know, that's a pretty sweet deal. I'll have to go sign up at the State college for my free education - after all, you DID say it was a right!! Like it or not, you DO have more rights than just those listed in the BoR. Universal Declaration on Human Rights, binding on ALL members of the United Nations - co-authored by the US delegate and voted for by the US in 1948, and approved by the General Assembly: Article 25. •(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control. •(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #17 July 27, 2009 QuoteThats funny we have univeral health care in Australia.... strange people still want to become Doctors and they still earn a good living. Ever have a look at the caliber of students who become doctors in the USA, and the amount of training our doctors have, compared with that in the UK or Australia? I'm not that familiar with Australia, but do you know what the English call the smart, motivated, hard working people--the ones who become doctors in the USA? Bankers. Which society is "better"? The one that steers it's best and brightest toward the practice of medicine, in which they help heal the sick and injured on a daily basis? Or the one that steers it's best and brightest toward generating paper fortunes? Seriously--what's your answer?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,137 #18 July 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteWhat part of "That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." don't you understand? Where in there does it say we have to pay for others health insurance? Where does it say we have to pay for courts to provide fair trials for others?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #19 July 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteYeah, I'm still looking in the Bill of Rights that specifically states that health care is a right... ...nope... ...nothing there. Health care will be a right in the US when enough Americans decide that it is through the democratic process - and that includes public debate, such as off-the-wall blogs like this Forum - and it is formally codified into law. Like that "right to schooling", you mean? You know, that's a pretty sweet deal. I'll have to go sign up at the State college for my free education - after all, you DID say it was a right!! Like it or not, you DO have more rights than just those listed in the BoR. Universal Declaration on Human Rights, binding on ALL members of the United Nations - co-authored by the US delegate and voted for by the US in 1948, and approved by the General Assembly: Article 25. •(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control. •(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection. How's that working for them, oh, over in Sudan?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,137 #20 July 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteYeah, I'm still looking in the Bill of Rights that specifically states that health care is a right... ...nope... ...nothing there. Health care will be a right in the US when enough Americans decide that it is through the democratic process - and that includes public debate, such as off-the-wall blogs like this Forum - and it is formally codified into law. Like that "right to schooling", you mean? You know, that's a pretty sweet deal. I'll have to go sign up at the State college for my free education - after all, you DID say it was a right!! Like it or not, you DO have more rights than just those listed in the BoR. Universal Declaration on Human Rights, binding on ALL members of the United Nations - co-authored by the US delegate and voted for by the US in 1948, and approved by the General Assembly: Article 25. •(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control. •(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection. How's that working for them, oh, over in Sudan? Do you always base your behavior on the worst possible example you can find in others? I bet your mother didn't teach you that.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #21 July 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteYeah, I'm still looking in the Bill of Rights that specifically states that health care is a right... ...nope... ...nothing there. Health care will be a right in the US when enough Americans decide that it is through the democratic process - and that includes public debate, such as off-the-wall blogs like this Forum - and it is formally codified into law. Like that "right to schooling", you mean? You know, that's a pretty sweet deal. I'll have to go sign up at the State college for my free education - after all, you DID say it was a right!! Like it or not, you DO have more rights than just those listed in the BoR. Universal Declaration on Human Rights, binding on ALL members of the United Nations - co-authored by the US delegate and voted for by the US in 1948, and approved by the General Assembly: Article 25. •(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control. •(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection. How's that working for them, oh, over in Sudan? Do you always base your behavior on the worst possible example you can find in others? I bet your mother didn't teach you that. I notice you're not answering the question.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #22 July 27, 2009 If your really want to shoot holes in the argument, just start looking at some of the crap that the UN has "passed". Healthcare is a right, Israel doesn't exist, and cats and dogs live together in harmony. Did I mention that the earth will cease and desist all future climate change?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #23 July 27, 2009 Quote If your really want to shoot holes in the argument, just start looking at some of the crap that the UN has "passed". Healthcare is a right, Israel doesn't exist, and cats and dogs live together in harmony. Did I mention that the earth will cease and desist all future climate change? UN shoots ITSELF in the foot just fine, it certainly doesn't need any help from us. Here's another, though - if healthcare *IS* a right, why isn't fed.gov arresting doctors for civil rights violations?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #24 July 27, 2009 QuoteHere's another, though - if healthcare *IS* a right, why isn't fed.gov arresting doctors for civil rights violations? Don't worry. I'm sure that's coming soon to a brave new world near you.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,468 #25 July 27, 2009 QuoteThats funny we have univeral health care in Australia.... strange people still want to become Doctors and they still earn a good living. If folk want extra coverage they can buy private health insurance. Works OK here why not over there ? So, in Australia - you have healthcare, but if you want REAL healthcare, you have to not only pay for others, but pay extra for your own more substantive healthcare? By the way, How's the whole anti-gun thing working for ya down there?Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
