Britain: The most violent country in Europe

[JohnRich 4]

News:

The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S.

Britain's violent crime record is worse than any other country in the European union, it has been revealed.

Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa - widely considered one of the world's most dangerous countries.

The Tories said Labour had presided over a decade of spiralling violence. In the decade following the party's election in 1997, the number of recorded violent attacks soared by 77 per cent to 1.158million - or more than two every minute.

In the UK, there are 2,034 offences per 100,000 people, way ahead of second-placed Austria with a rate of 1,677. The U.S. has a violence rate of 466 crimes per 100,000 residents, Canada 935, Australia 92 and South Africa 1,609.

Full story: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

[rushmc 23]

Hope you got your fire suit on sir John!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[BikerBabe 0]

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Hope you got your fire suit on sir John!

what are we supposed to argue about? All i see is a quoted article. Now, if John had posted his opinion of the article or what it means to him...then we might have a jumping off point.

Is this a gun control thread? socialism? abortion? religion?

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[Tf15 0]

I think you need to read the words more carefully. I STRONGLY suspect the following is not true of homicides, for example:

Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S

Unless homicide is no longer a violent crime.

2008 data shows US at over twice as many homicides per 100,000 than the UK

Three times is enemy action

[christelsabine 1]

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....
Is this a gun control thread? socialism? abortion? religion?

Much easier. It's a JR thread about his hobby, the UK. That's all.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[TomAiello 26]

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Is this a gun control thread? socialism? abortion? religion?

Much easier. It's a JR thread about his hobby, the UK. That's all.

Oddly reminiscent of the Dreamdancer threads about his hobby, the US.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[jakee 1,648]

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Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa - widely considered one of the world's most dangerous countries.

A) Do we have a worse gun crime rate than the US? I would be amazed if that were true.

B) How accurate are SA's 'official' crime figures?

C) It's opposition party propoganda in a right wing newspaper who's MO is to boost sales by provoking fear and anger in its readership. It actually does make Fox look fair and balanced.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[TomAiello 26]

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A) Do we have a worse gun crime rate than the US? I would be amazed if that were true.

It's actually possible, if you count registration and possession offenses as "gun crimes". Just the facts of much greater registration requirements, combined with much more draconian prohibition, mean that you're likely to have far more infractions of that sort per firearm.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[vortexring 0]

It's potentially an interesting post but unfortunately, as has already been mentioned, there isn't any substance from John to go with the article from the Daily Mail.

The Daily Mail. It's SOP is quite simply to generate fear, anger and hate as has already been mentioned, although I do recall some interesting statistics regarding violence relating to the Glasgow area from other media sources.

All I can say is this: we've numerous incidents involving firearms - but if we'd the firearm mentality found in America you could easily multiply our murder rates. If you think I might be talking nonsense? Have a short walk between Glasgow Central and Queen street late on a Friday night; ask the question to the people you'll no doubt 'bump' into.
As for the Yanks? Of course, they're completely mental - but I reckon about 99% of Americans I've met over the years - and having spent months and months working in the country - are always as polite, decent, and as nice as nice can be - even when they can't speak English!

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[warpedskydiver 0]

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It's potentially an interesting post but unfortunately, as has already been mentioned, there isn't any substance from John to go with the article from the Daily Mail.

The Daily Mail. It's SOP is quite simply to generate fear, anger and hate as has already been mentioned, although I do recall some interesting statistics regarding violence relating to the Glasgow area from other media sources.

All I can say is this: we've numerous incidents involving firearms - but if we'd the firearm mentality found in America you could easily multiply our murder rates. If you think I might be talking nonsense? Have a short walk between Glasgow Central and Queen street late on a Friday night; ask the question to the people you'll no doubt 'bump' into.
As for the Yanks? Of course, they're completely mental - but I reckon about 99% of Americans I've met over the years - and having spent months and months working in the country - are always as polite, decent, and as nice as nice can be - even when they can't speak English!

Bloody hell are they banning foreheads?

[Erroll 80]

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....
Is this a gun control thread? socialism? abortion? religion?

Much easier. It's a JR thread about his hobby, the UK. That's all.

Oddly reminiscent of the Dreamdancer threads about his hobby, the US.

Yah. A typical JR thread. (Dreamdancer's threads are is inconsequential is his non-existent 'opinions' are.)

None of you have any idea what the real crime rate in SA is.

[jakee 1,648]

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It's actually possible, if you count registration and possession offenses as "gun crimes". Just the facts of much greater registration requirements, combined with much more draconian prohibition, mean that you're likely to have far more infractions of that sort per firearm.

Of course those shouldn't be classed as violent crimes, but I do suspect that is what has happened. Like I said, opposition propoganda.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Skyrad 0]

Well if the Daily Mail says so it must be true

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

Crime in SA is so bad people don't even bother calling the police allot of the time. When the Police do come they ask you if you want them to investigate the crime.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Erroll 80]

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Crime in SA is so bad people don't even bother calling the police a lot of the time. When If the police do come they ask you if you want them to investigate the crime.

From today's Sunday Times :

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How cops fiddle crime statistics
Police in South Africa’s three major provinces are implicated in a conspiracy to make it appear that they are winning the war on crime.

Evidence of manipulating crime statistics — including destroying dockets and failing to register cases — has been exposed in Gauteng, Western Cape and KwaZulu-Natal.

At least five stations in the Western Cape, four in Gauteng and one in KwaZulu-Natal have been fingered in alleged fiddling and indications are that the fraud could be far more widespread.

In the past few weeks, police stations have been accused of:

Stockpiling, hiding and burning dockets;

Ditching dockets of crimes on the increase, including child rape;

Failing to register crimes that have a low chance of prosecution; and

Reducing serious crimes to lesser charges.

[Skyrad 0]

Spot on with the IF. There you go, to quote SA crime figures in support of an argument is a sick joke.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[crashtested 0]

This thread makes me so angry, I just feel like killing everyone.
Completely unfounded accusations, of violent brits.

[Andy9o8 3]

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Crime in SA is so bad people don't even bother calling the police allot of the time.

Crime in SA is so bad the police call Chuck Norris.

[Erroll 80]

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Crime in SA is so bad people don't even bother calling the police allot of the time.

Crime in SA is so bad the police call Chuck Norris.

Not too far off the mark. Many of our police stations are wired up to armed response security companies!

[JohnRich 4]

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vortexring: The Daily Mail. It's SOP is quite simply to generate fear, anger and hate

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Skyrad: Well if the Daily Mail says so it must be true

How about The Telegraph?
UK is violent crime capital of Europe
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html

The Sun?
UK: Most violent nation in Europe
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2512514/UK-is-most-violent-nation-in-Europe-and-is-worse-than-US.html

London Daily News?
UK number 1 violent nation in Europe
http://www.thelondondailynews.com/cent-increase-murders-rapes-robberies-since-labour-came-power-number-violent-nation-europe-p-3143.html

Blaming the newspaper for reporting the story is such an easy way to stick your head in the sand and deny the truth.

[TomAiello 26]

Clearly the answer is that all English newspapers are low quality.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[vortexring 0]

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vortexring: The Daily Mail. It's SOP is quite simply to generate fear, anger and hate

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Skyrad: Well if the Daily Mail says so it must be true

How about The Telegraph?
UK is violent crime capital of Europe
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html

The Sun?
UK: Most violent nation in Europe
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2512514/UK-is-most-violent-nation-in-Europe-and-is-worse-than-US.html

London Daily News?
UK number 1 violent nation in Europe
http://www.thelondondailynews.com/cent-increase-murders-rapes-robberies-since-labour-came-power-number-violent-nation-europe-p-3143.html

Blaming the newspaper for reporting the story is such an easy way to stick your head in the sand and deny the truth.

I'm not sticking my head in the sand - I merely mentioned an opinion of a newspaper I'm not particularly fond of. Good of you to also provide additional links though. Perhaps you might like to also substantiate your original post rather than cut and paste a newspaper story.

What do you make of the statistic that we're 13th regarding homicides? Perhaps we should all arm ourselves with handguns and allow massive weapon proliferation throughout our country. Even better; do little to prevent our disturbed teenage relatives from accessing such weaponary as well. Yeah, that'll sort the violence issue right out. Reckon it'll further reduce our homicide rates?

"There are also degrees of violence. While the UK ranks above South Africa for all violent crime, South Africans suffer more than 20,000 murders each year - compared with Britain's 921 in 2007."

And what about this:

"In Britain, an affray is considered a violent crime, while in other countries it will only be logged if a person is physically injured."

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[JohnRich 4]

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"There are also degrees of violence... And what about this: "In Britain, an affray is considered a violent crime, while in other countries it will only be logged if a person is physically injured..."

Finally, someone showed that they actually read the articles and have an intelligent counter-point, rather than just knee-jerk dismissals. Thank you. It only took 22 messages to get there.

Yep, you do very good on homicide. But you do very poorly on many other violence measures.

Do those differences in definitions account for enough to change the rankings significantly?

[vortexring 0]

I'm sure the politicians would tell you so, but I'm not so sure. I figured they're worth consideration though. Perhaps I'd have to look into it all a bit deeper to come to a conclusion but I can tell you this: I've travelled all over Europe (and the World) for years - and one of the worst countries where I've witnessed violence is without doubt the UK. However, whilst a significant amount is often alcohol related - it's by no means all.

It's also came to my attention that Glasgow was/is the murder capital of the Western Europe:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/glasgow-is-britains-murder-capital-as-knife-crime-spirals-737329.html

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I'm not sticking my head in the sand - I merely mentioned an opinion of a newspaper I'm not particularly fond of. Good of you to also provide additional links though. Perhaps you might like to also substantiate your original post rather than cut and paste a newspaper story.

What do you make of the statistic that we're 13th regarding homicides?

I don't care, because even with the American firearm murder rate and average chances of being black, in a street gang, and involved in the drug trade my chances of being killed with a gun are far lower than things like being in a fatal car accident.

As a white guy with average chances of street gang and drug trade involvement I was safer in Seattle where any one can buy a handgun than across the border in Vancouver.

I worry more about being mugged than being shot and I worry more about getting run down by a car.

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Perhaps we should all arm ourselves with handguns and allow massive weapon proliferation throughout our country.

That would be a brilliant idea. It would be nice to see England embrace its bill of rights which allows states that the subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions.