Andy9o8 2 #51 July 2, 2009 Which people in particular? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,587 #52 July 2, 2009 Socialism and capitalism are fans, not lines. So each person who's trying to say that (x) (y) or (z) is socialist or capitalist is picking the particular angle of that fan to define as socialism or capitalism. Funny how that works. Saddam was a communist. Why? Because Saddam was our enemy, and communists were our enemies, so Saddam must have been a communist Wendy P. There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #53 July 2, 2009 Quote but if you add up all the taxes you pay it is is only a small fraction of the amount that the military is subsidised by the rest of us Bullcrap (unless you're paying some sort of extra "military tax" that nobody else seems to know about)Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #54 July 2, 2009 QuoteI believe in Harpo-Marxism... I am happy you clarified, as I immediately thought of the Oprah version.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #55 July 2, 2009 QuoteSo you didn't go to a public school, then? Not in USA :P* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #56 July 2, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote was it one of the socialist (government run) militaries you served in I'm not following your thought. I was in the USAF, stationed at a special operations base, now USAF Special Operations HQ. you were a government employee - paid for from taxpayers hard earned dollars Believe it or not us 'government' emloyees pay fed taxes too.(Kind of a mind fuck to think you're paying your own salery) but if you add up all the taxes you pay it is is only a small fraction of the amount that the military is subsidised by the rest of us It matters not. "I" still pay into that same system.(Here's another way to look at it. My company (the US Air Force) is employed by the people that help pay my salery (US citizens). I'm performing a service for the citizens and in return they pay me to do so.)Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #57 July 2, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote was it one of the socialist (government run) militaries you served in I'm not following your thought. I was in the USAF, stationed at a special operations base, now USAF Special Operations HQ. you were a government employee - paid for from taxpayers hard earned dollars Believe it or not us 'government' emloyees pay fed taxes too.(Kind of a mind fuck to think you're paying your own salery) but if you add up all the taxes you pay it is is only a small fraction of the amount that the military is subsidised by the rest of us It matters not. "I" still pay into that same system.(Here's another way to look at it. My company (the US Air Force) is employed by the people that help pay my salery (US citizens). I'm performing a service for the citizens and in return they pay me to do so.) that's how a nationalised health service would work as well stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DARK 0 #58 July 2, 2009 Quote (Here's another way to look at it. My company (the US Air Force) is employed by the people that help pay my salery (US citizens). I'm performing a service for the citizens and in return they pay me to do so.) and heres another way you are a citizen too so you have taxes to pay but instead of giving you all the money and taking back the taxes the citizens simply deduct the taxes from your pay. you do not actually add to the national exchequer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #59 July 2, 2009 Quote I would not call it "free" anymore than I consider my health care from my company "free". It was part of my compensation packages in both cases. But you had a choice to select a different plan from your company, or opt out and use your own coverage purchased separately. You would also lose it when you left the company. In a real socialist system, however, everyone gets the same health care for free - including those who do not work - but you generally have no choices and cannot opt out.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DARK 0 #60 July 2, 2009 Quote In a real socialist system, however, everyone gets the same health care for free - including those who do not work - but you generally have no choices and cannot opt out. thats almost how it is in my country and we are far far from socialist free healthcare to everyone in state funded hospitals you can still get private health insurance if you want or pay for private healthcare if you think it is better so you have the choice we also dont have anyone going bankrupt because of medical bills Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #61 July 2, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote was it one of the socialist (government run) militaries you served in I'm not following your thought. I was in the USAF, stationed at a special operations base, now USAF Special Operations HQ. you were a government employee - paid for from taxpayers hard earned dollars Believe it or not us 'government' emloyees pay fed taxes too.(Kind of a mind fuck to think you're paying your own salery) but if you add up all the taxes you pay it is is only a small fraction of the amount that the military is subsidised by the rest of us Actually you do not pay one red cent to our nations Military. You are not a US Citizen nor here on a work visa right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redlegphi 0 #62 July 2, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote was it one of the socialist (government run) militaries you served in I'm not following your thought. I was in the USAF, stationed at a special operations base, now USAF Special Operations HQ. you were a government employee - paid for from taxpayers hard earned dollars Hussain controlled Iraq paid their soldiers, not much - but they were paid - was that a socialist country? Actually, since the central government controlled large aspects of the Iraqi economy under Saddam, Iraq was a lot closer to a socialist government than the US is or most likely ever will be. However, the fact that Saddam paid his Soldiers did not make them socialist, no. Claims from my liberal brethren that the military is socialist are just as silly to me as claims from the right that a national health care plan would be socialist. In reality, neither have anything to do with socialism. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #63 July 2, 2009 Quote thats almost how it is in my country and we are far far from socialist Well, your healthcare system IS socialist. Quote we also dont have anyone going bankrupt because of medical bills This is true, but you need to evaluate everything together. What you said is basically that everyone who is working is paying for free healthcare for everyone through taxes. And that's the reason you're paying 41% income tax over 36KE income, and have 21% sales tax (VAT). You could even look on it in a different way: I personally know a few people who immigrated from Ireland to the USA, and I guess there is more people than I know. How many people do you know who have immigrated into Ireland from the USA?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #64 July 2, 2009 QuoteI remember another one (don't recall the source, though) It's something like "Socialism works fine until you run out of someone else's money" I believe that was Margaret Thatcher. QuoteMargaret Thatcher, in a TV interview for Thames TV This Week on Feb. 5, 1976, Prime Minister Thatcher said, "...and Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #65 July 2, 2009 QuoteThe Military-Industrial complex is the biggest example of socialism in this country. Absolutely. I can't imagine a military even a tenth the size of our current one being necessary for actual defense.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #66 July 2, 2009 Thanks, TomMike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #67 July 2, 2009 QuoteSocialism is not about the govornment controlling things, it is about the people having the ultimate control. For the people to actually have ultimate control, each person must individually be free to make the decisions for themselves. When the government takes the people's freedom to choose away under the pretext of "taking care of them", that's not the people having ultimate control--it's the people being ultimately controlled.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #68 July 2, 2009 Quote Actually you do not pay one red cent to our nations Military. Well, he should. I think it's high time we collected reparations for all our uncompensated efforts in the last couple World Wars. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #69 July 2, 2009 Quote obama is the closest thing to a centralist politician you have had in a long time because you guys cant stand certain words that you hardly even know the meaning off(socialist being what the enemy was being a classic quote from this very thread) capitalism / socialism / communism being just a few Not remotely true. Clinton was a centrist. He talked about a health care changeup, but quickly shuttered it. He did not take over major corporations, or dictate salary/bonus terms. Given these circumstances, would his actions be different. Perhaps, but we can only work on events that happened. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #70 July 2, 2009 Quote: In Reply To In Reply To You lot seem to be OK with corporations taking over the very things our families have worked for over many generations. And what corporations would that be, rhys... give us some modern-day examples. Archer Daniels Midland? K-Mart? Starbucks? yes those are prime examples of those taking the dollar/livelihoods off the small guys. also large corporations like Weyerhaeuser, Rio Tinto and the other massive companies pilfering all the natural resources and palming thier antics off as sustainable."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #71 July 2, 2009 Man all this talk about socialism. I thought we were an autonomis collective. Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryzflies 0 #72 July 2, 2009 QuoteQuoteI remember another one (don't recall the source, though) It's something like "Socialism works fine until you run out of someone else's money" I believe that was Margaret Thatcher. QuoteMargaret Thatcher, in a TV interview for Thames TV This Week on Feb. 5, 1976, Prime Minister Thatcher said, "...and Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them." I remember her, she was Ronald Reagan's speechwriter, right?If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryzflies 0 #73 July 2, 2009 Quote Quote I take it you also went to private school? Funny story- I went to public school, main reason being because the private schools in my area (obviously not true for the nation...) but anyway the private schools had much less regulation than the public schools. The teachers at the private school were actually a lower quality with less credentials; a bunch of these idiots ended up paying (a lot) for a lesser education Anyway, as long as one goes to school and makes an effort to get educated, he/she can keep moving forward, private education or public. As with everything, just make the effort and WORK for it. Anyone see that news article on CNN.com recently? The homeless girl that just graduated from a PUBLIC high school and will be attending HARVARD next year? Edit: "She has attended 12 schools in 12 years; lived out of garbage bags among pimps, prostitutes and drug dealers." And now she's goin to Harvard cuz she worked her @$$ off. http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-harvard20-2009jun20,0,1882109.story Good for her, clearly a success story for the socialist public school systems. Under a pure capitalist system she'd still be illiterate.If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BDashe 0 #74 July 2, 2009 lable it what you want, the point is she took an entrepreneurial/capitalistic approach to her situation and said 'I dont have pocket aces here in life, hell i have a 7/2 off suit. I'm not going to wait for the flop though, f*ck card games. I have an opportunity to go to school for free and educate myself through dedication and hard work.' She is now headed to arguably the best private secondary education institution in the world, and having it paid for. another great story, i happen to know this guy and his brother personally: http://www.dartmouth.edu/~dartlife/archives/17-2/ochieng.html born in a small village in rural kenya in the late 70's, winds up an MD in the USA via Dartmouth and Vanderbilt Universities by busting their @$$es. Used to tell us the thing he missed most about walking to school in Kenya was seeing the giraffes on a semi regualr basis. Quote from the article 'We've come this far, and we started from nothing.' Edit: i've also never said i support an anarchical society, government should contribute to society in some areas- education, law enforcement, military, etc. People should have options though, especially with where they work, education, transportation etc.So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #75 July 2, 2009 QuoteGood for her, clearly a success story for the socialist public school systems. Under a pure capitalist system she'd still be illiterate. That's why Latin, Greek and philosophy are being taught in grade school now where they weren't in the 18th and 19th centuries, right? Oh, wait... *Rolls eyes*Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
