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turtlespeed 226
QuoteQuoteWhat about dress code in workplaces?
How would you feel if you came to an appointment with a ninja?
Workplace dress code is set by the employer. The government should not be setting it, one way or the other.
Well that depends - donchathink? Isn't GM mojority owned by the Gov't now? What about banks? I think they CAN set the dress code now. Come on now Comrade, get yourself in line, now!
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
turtlespeed 226
Quote>There's a huge amount of pressure to join religious orders?
Yes. (I did go to a catholic high school.)
>and so far I haven't detected much pressure at all to join any sort of religious order.
And neither I nor my wife have felt any pressure at all to wear a burqa!
Have we somehow twisted the issue so far out of proportion that we have forgotten that France has OUTLAWED the burqa. It is not pressure to wear the thing, it is ILLEGAT to. OH MY! They will be forced to show their face - Oh the tragedy!
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
billvon 3,090
So, then ban veils, masks, hats and sunglasses if that's your worry. Get those oppressed terrorist brides out of the shadows, and keep those sunglass-wearing criminals from hiding their identity.
("Wait a minute, dude - that might affect ME! And I am only going to support stupid laws that affect other people!")
>Please be sure to let us know JUST how well your ideals work saving lives
>that would be blown apart by terrorist acts.
Probably about as well as your ideals saved all the people killed by Timothy McVeigh.
turtlespeed 226
Quote
Probably about as well as your ideals saved all the people killed by Timothy McVeigh.
Wow - so an unexpected attack is the same thing as an attack that is being prepared for and attempting to be prevented. Maybe you would be happier if there were a more diversified variety of people that were terrorists so we wouldn't have sterotypes.
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
billvon 3,090
>being prepared for and attempting to be prevented.
Nope. Why do you think that?
>Maybe you would be happier if there were a more diversified variety of
>people that were terrorists so we wouldn't have sterotypes.
Nope. Why do you think that?
Tell ya what. Go into any police station in the US (or France for that matter.) Look at the wanted posters. Check out how many violent criminals are wearing a hat and sunglasses, and how many are wearing burqas. Let us know what you find.
turtlespeed 226
Quote>Wow - so an unexpected attack is the same thing as an attack that is
>being prepared for and attempting to be prevented.
Nope. Why do you think that?
>>>>You are the one comparing Timothy McVey.
>Maybe you would be happier if there were a more diversified variety of
>people that were terrorists so we wouldn't have sterotypes.
Nope. Why do you think that?
>>>>Because you are against measures that help arab terrorists avoid detection and capture.
Tell ya what. Go into any police station in the US (or France for that matter.) Look at the wanted posters. Check out how many violent criminals are wearing a hat and sunglasses, and how many are wearing burqas. Let us know what you find.
As soon as you tell me how many terrorists, wearing burqas to hide their identity, got away undetected.
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
billvon 3,090
>identity, got away undetected.
Turtle goes for the epic fail! Can't even hope to answer the question, so he asks an unanswerable one and hopes no one will notice.
nerdgirl 0
Quote>As soon as you tell me how many terrorists, wearing burqas to hide their
>identity, got away undetected.
Turtle goes for the epic fail! Can't even hope to answer the question, so he asks an unanswerable one and hopes no one will notice.
Perhaps it’s not completely unanswerable.

One can argue that any suicide/homicide bomber that successfully detonated concealed explosives did “g[e]t away undetected.” If detected, the terrorist would not have been able to execute the attack, eh? Therefore the level of successful attacks executed by individuals who used conservative Muslim dress to conceal IED or other explosives gives one a lower limit for the number that “got away undetected."
While not a burqa, abayas have been used to conceal IEDs. In 2008, there were over 30 such sucicide/homicide bombings in which explosives were concealed under abayas or other culturally-religiously obligated/encouraged/demanded dress, i.e., the “Black Moving Object” (BMO).
One individual admitted to coordinating at least 28 suicide/homicide bombings in which abayas concealed explosives.
Example of two such bombings in Iraq in 2008 that caused at least 73 deaths, which was also discussed here. There have been fewer such concealed suicide/homicide bombings this year.
It’s also been a tactic used repeatedly by Palestinian terrorists against Israel.
[smart-ass]
Perhaps getting an answer depends on who one asks, eh?

[/smart-ass]
As a civil libertarian, I dislike such restrictions on choice in personal dress. While I haven’t seen any evidence to suggest that there is a rash or severe threat of female terrorists in France using conservative Muslim dress to conceal explosives and I don’t know enough about the level of indoctrination/control of Muslim women in France by Muslim men (unlike other parts of the world), there is an operational security issue that one can consider. To pretend that it is not an operational security issue in parts of the world (again, I'm doubtful France) is lack of knowledge or denial.
Is there ever a valid reason to restrict such clothing? If concealing with abaya or burqa is an established terrorist tactic, how many dead people does one need to have before such restrictions are warranted? Some may say, it doesn’t matter. Others might say one is all it takes. I’m inclined to something less at either end of the spectrum. But it is a legitimate, imo, and interesting question w/r/t what civil liberties are groups of people willing to give up in order to increase security/decrease risk.
Also, there is also some irony, I think, that in the areas in which women are either required by law (e.g., areas under Sharia law) or induced/compelled by threat of punishment or death if they are regarded as dressing immodestly (not a lot free choice there, eh?), the basic human rights and civil liberties of half the population are often severely restricted explicitly or tacitly.
/Marg
Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying
nerdgirl 0
QuoteOne thing that struck me when I was working in London last month was the burqas everywhere.
Were they really burqas? Or were they abayas, hijabs, or other conservative Islamic clothing? I suspect you were just using 'burqa' as short-hand/subsitution for all conservative Islamic dress.
The number of women I saw in conservative Islamic dress in Brussels earlier this month was unexpected. I don't recall seeing any burqas.
/Marg
Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying
QuoteQuoteOne thing that struck me when I was working in London last month was the burqas everywhere.
Were they really burqas? Or were they abayas, hijabs, or other conservative Islamic clothing? I suspect you were just using 'burqa' as short-hand/subsitution for all conservative Islamic dress.
The number of women I saw in conservative Islamic dress in Brussels earlier this month was unexpected. I don't recall seeing any burqas.
/Marg
Thank you for the education on conservatice islamic dress. In a weird and fetishtastic way...their dress is kinda sexy.

I believe thaey have something like that - it's called "Anti-Terrorism". It is AMAZING how much a terrorist dressed up in makeup and a burqa looks just like a woman dressed up in a burqa. EXCEPT - if the thing wasn't worn, then - WOW - we could see their face.
I tell you what - If you can stop the terrorism that gave the arabs the stereotype - Burqas will be allowed again.
So go ahead and get to workl on that.
Please be sure to let us know JUST how well your ideals work saving lives that would be blown apart by terrorist acts.
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
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