Sangi 0
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I remember reading about a female F-15 driver in Saudi complaining that she was required to cover her head if she went off base. Their country right? I think any new immigrant here should be required to put on flip flops, tshirt, and shorts after they get off the plane, boat, or sneak across the border. Then, they don't eat until they complete 2 hours of English 101.QuoteQuote
Frances President Sarkozy says the burqa will not be welcome on french territory, I think it's great. Nothing worse than women looking like bee keepers.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,528105,00.html?mep
So, just so I'm clear, you think the restriction of the free practice of one's religion is "great"?
Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.
Andy9o8 2
I imagine I'm biased, but I still think the US Constitution strikes the best balance on these type of issues among all the "Western/modern" countries. And I'm pretty sure that most laws that would ban the wearing of burqas by adult civilian women in the US (exceptions aside, like workplace physical safety, etc.) would probably be eventually struck down as unconstitutional. And on balance, looking at the long-term big picture, I think that's more of a good thing than bad.
Lefty 0
QuoteSo, just so I'm clear, you think the restriction of the free practice of one's religion is "great"?
What do burqas have to do with religion?
Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin
-Calvin
How about shutting down an assembly line or requiring your co-workers to fill in while you pray?QuoteI imagine I'm biased, but I still think the US Constitution strikes the best balance on these type of issues among all the "Western/modern" countries. And I'm pretty sure that most laws that would ban the wearing of burqas by adult civilian women in the US (exceptions aside, like workplace physical safety, etc.) would probably be eventually struck down as unconstitutional. And on balance, looking at the long-term big picture, I think that's more of a good thing than bad.
Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.
in saudi a woman is not even allowed to drive a car, i highly doubt an f-15.. 
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda
QuoteQuoteSo, just so I'm clear, you think the restriction of the free practice of one's religion is "great"?
What do burqas have to do with religion?
Wearing of the burqa is an interpretation of the Islamic requirement for women to keep modest.
wmw999 2,560
Do co-workers fill in for smoking breaks for some?Quoterequiring your co-workers to fill in while you pray
How often does the "prayer break interrupting the assembly line" actually happen?
Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
well, I'm not sure whether it is a "great" thing, but I wouldn't want to see such a ban here in the USA.
I guess if your country doesn't have a statement in its constitution that protects religious practices, then such a ban is OK there.
I guess if your country doesn't have a statement in its constitution that protects religious practices, then such a ban is OK there.
Speed Racer
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QuoteDo co-workers fill in for smoking breaks for some?Quoterequiring your co-workers to fill in while you pray
How often does the "prayer break interrupting the assembly line" actually happen?
Wendy P.
I would suppose that would depend on what shift you're working and how many hours. There are five prayer times during the day. I would guess that the average workday would include 2-3 prayers, unless it's an excessively long shift.
not all muslims stop work & pray 5 times a day. At least not the muslims I have seen/worked with.
Speed Racer
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nigel99 586
QuoteDo co-workers fill in for smoking breaks for some?Quoterequiring your co-workers to fill in while you pray
How often does the "prayer break interrupting the assembly line" actually happen?
Wendy P.
Earlier this week I was phoned by another small business man wanting a reference for an ex-employee who is a Muslim. The guy asking for the reference was genuinely and extremely worried that the potential employee would want to pray 5 times a day and the disruption this would cause. While completely non-pc I can understand where he was coming from and as this youngster used to disappear off site for 2 or 3 hours on a Friday un-announced something I can sympathise with.
Lastly I don't see any difference between smoke breaks and prayer breaks and neither are acceptable IF you don't carry your weight. While all generalisations are dangerous and unfair to some personal experience of smoke breakers have been people quite happy to sit and chat outside for 20-30 minutes, while arriving at 9am and leaving at 5 on the dot. (Same goes for web-surfers who have to switch screen every time you walk into the office).
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.
wmw999 2,560
And that's really the deal. Evaluate situations as individual, rather than making a lot of assumptions. And remember that breaks, and not religion, is the topic of discussion in the workplace.
There's nothing illegal about stating a company's breaks policy when someone is being hired. But it's not kosher to enforce it inconsistently, and it's a sign of a good employer to be flexible where it doesn't impact their business untowardly.
If you had an employee who needed to take medication and sit down for 10 minutes after taking the medication, what would be the reaction?
Wendy P.
There's nothing illegal about stating a company's breaks policy when someone is being hired. But it's not kosher to enforce it inconsistently, and it's a sign of a good employer to be flexible where it doesn't impact their business untowardly.
If you had an employee who needed to take medication and sit down for 10 minutes after taking the medication, what would be the reaction?
Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
QuoteThe "free practice" is not so free when a female is treated as chattel since childhood. One could say Jim Jone's followers were practicing free choice. The sooner we rid mankind of middle age thinking, the better off we will be.
But banning burqas is fixing the problem... how?
Would banning swastikas wipe neo-nazism off the face of the earth?
Let's ban dying dying from low turns next, that'll fix many problems.
"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."
nigel99 586
QuoteAnd that's really the deal. Evaluate situations as individual, rather than making a lot of assumptions. And remember that breaks, and not religion, is the topic of discussion in the workplace.
There's nothing illegal about stating a company's breaks policy when someone is being hired. But it's not kosher to enforce it inconsistently, and it's a sign of a good employer to be flexible where it doesn't impact their business untowardly.
If you had an employee who needed to take medication and sit down for 10 minutes after taking the medication, what would be the reaction?
Wendy P.
If the question was aimed at me - then well it is a pretty easy differentiator with medicine compared to smoke/prayer breaks. I wouldn't have a problem with it but if it was 10-20 minutes every 2 hours, I would expect some "give" from an employee where I would not be happy with them taking full length tea-breaks and lunch-breaks in addition to their medicine time-out, and them "clock-watching" from 9 to 5.
As a side-note we have a very strong relationship with our staff and I have had staff offer to come in at 2am on a Saturday night to help meet a deadline for Monday am, and likewise staff have worked shorter hours/days off when times have been quiet.
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.
wmw999 2,560
I took the reply to field out because I was just starting a new sub-thread in there. Not specifically to you at all.
And yeah, if the employer gives, the employee should too. And it's not always even.
Wendy P.
And yeah, if the employer gives, the employee should too. And it's not always even.
Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
TomAiello 26
Quotewell, I'm not sure whether it is a "great" thing, but I wouldn't want to see such a ban here in the USA.
I guess if your country doesn't have a statement in its constitution that protects religious practices, then such a ban is OK there.
The wearing of particular garments (black armbands, for example) can also be construed as symbolic speech, and protected on free speech grounds.
-- Tom Aiello
Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com
Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com
TomAiello 26
QuoteThe "free practice" is not so free when a female is treated as chattel since childhood.
I'm not exactly sure how that relates to this story.
Here, we're talking about the rights of adults to wear particular garments. It seems to be that it's rather paternalistic to decide that they can't wear something because it's "bad" for them. Shouldn't they be allowed to decide for themselves what they want to wear?
Is your argument that somehow by choosing to wear this specific garment, the woman is participating in her own (or other women's) oppression? And that this centralized, government oppression of her freedoms is going to cancel that out?
-- Tom Aiello
Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com
Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com
Sangi 0
What about dress code in workplaces?
How would you feel if you came to an appointment with a ninja?
How would you feel if you came to an appointment with a ninja?
"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean
QuoteWhat about dress code in workplaces?
How would you feel if you came to an appointment with a ninja?
A workplace and the federal government are two very different things.
Couldn't agree more.
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