More "Do as I say, not as I do" from the religious right

[TankBuster 0]

Actually Clinton is a bullshit example of a lack of hipocrisy anyhow. He would never condemn bad behavior because he had a known long history of it.

Look, I know both sides like to point out the other side's moral failures, and it's really kinda sad.

A couple of points.

First, there are a lot of posters who simply love to point out a Christian's moral failures. Granted, some Christians want to claim moral high ground but they are wrong and in actuality the Bible teaches differently. We are tempted and fail at the same rate as non Christians, the difference is in our relationship with God and the result of His sacrifice. So for eduacation's sake (not necessarily you Bill) people should not equate Christianity as a statement that they will never again do anything wrong. Some infer hypocrisy simply from that.
Also, I don't think it's wrong to demand high character from one another - even though it's possible we may one day succumb to temptation or lapses in judgement.

As far as the Republican/conservative party of "family values" thing goes, I don't connect the errant behavior of a few with a failure of that platform. What I hope both parties will do is develop policy that promotes the family as key to the success of society. If the Reps want to claim to be the party of family values, fine, but the measure should be the legislation, (or lack thereof) not the moral failures of the individuals.

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[billvon 3,114]

>Look, I know both sides like to point out the other side's moral failures,
>and it's really kinda sad.

Agreed - especially when it is used to excuse someone else's failures.

>First, there are a lot of posters who simply love to point out a Christian's
>moral failures.

I don't think anyone here has pointed out his failures because he's christian. They've pointed them out because he is an outspoken member of the religious right who condemns others for the same failings. If he was Hindu and demanded other people resign because of their infidelities, and he was caught bonking the secretary, I think you'd see the same sort of complaining (from the opposite party, of course.)

>Also, I don't think it's wrong to demand high character from one another -
>even though it's possible we may one day succumb to temptation or
>lapses in judgement.

Agreed. But I would also argue that fervor in demanding certain behavior from others should be matched by fervor put into controlling your own behavior.

For a similar-but-opposite situation, consider your feelings towards Al Gore. He's doing better lately (powers his house with solar etc) but I have a feeling it still bothers you that he doesn't "practice what he preaches."

[TankBuster 0]

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I don't think anyone here has pointed out his failures because he's christian. They've pointed them out because he is an outspoken member of the religious right who condemns others for the same failings.

Again, is there an example of this, other than Craig (his own party and admitted to a crime) or Clinton, who again was not just a boinking but a boinking IN the wh WITH a subordinate and subsequent perjury?

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[billvon 3,114]

>other than Craig (his own party and admitted to a crime) or Clinton . . .

Please point out where Clinton asked someone to resign because of marital infidelities.

[Rookie120 0]

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Please point out where Clinton asked someone to resign because of marital infidelities.

They just commit suicide instead.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[LyraM45 0]

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've never heard Ensign preach, bash gays, or call anyone a sinner. Have you? If you have links to any speeches, please provide them.

Are you saying that Democrats don't take a stand on fidelity because they know one day they are likely to get caught or because they don't think it's very important?

I never said Ensign did anything in particular, but rather his party he is affiliated with is infamous for doing such.

I'm not saying Dems don't take a stand on fidelity because they're afraid they'll get caught later. I'm saying they don't take a stand on it because they're not self rightouse and keep their personal lives, well, I dunno... personal.

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

[LyraM45 0]

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I don't think anyone here has pointed out his failures because he's christian. They've pointed them out because he is an outspoken member of the religious right who condemns others for the same failings. If he was Hindu and demanded other people resign because of their infidelities, and he was caught bonking the secretary, I think you'd see the same sort of complaining (from the opposite party, of course.)

Exactly my point! (Thanks and well said, Bill! I couldn't put those words together like that exactly to make my other post understood.)

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

[TankBuster 0]

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>other than Craig (his own party and admitted to a crime) or Clinton . . .

Please point out where Clinton asked someone to resign because of marital infidelities.

Thats irrelavent, what I asked you two to do was provide an example of Ensign asking someone to resign because of infidelity alone, when criminal activity was not in question. You haven't.

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[TankBuster 0]

Sounds like you guys expect better behavior from Republicans than from Democrats. I guess that's a good thing for the Republicans. And if you ladies are thinking of marrying soon - better check party affiliation. Apparently when the Dems cheat its because they don't take the vows seriously anyhow.

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[billvon 3,114]

>Thats irrelavent . . .

Your own example is irrelevant? OK.

>what I asked you two to do was provide an example of Ensign asking
>someone to resign because of infidelity alone, when criminal activity was
>not in question.

The reason Ensign himself gave for his request was not Clinton's violation of the law, but rather because Clinton "has no credibility left."

[billvon 3,114]

>Sounds like you guys expect better behavior from Republicans than
>from Democrats.

Dude, you are completely missing the point. Ask yourself why you are more pissed off at Al Gore using lots of jet fuel vs. Rush Limbaugh using lots of jet fuel.

>Apparently when the Dems cheat its because they don't take the
>vows seriously anyhow.

Or perhaps some people realize they're not perfect, and thus spend less time telling others how they should live their lives.

[TankBuster 0]

No, Dude, you are. You guys are saying that Ensigns behavior is worse than others because he codemns others for it, yet both examples you cite the condemnation is for criminal activity. And your buddy Lyra even admits she bashes him because he's a Republican.

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I never said Ensign did anything in particular, but rather his party he is affiliated with is infamous for doing such.

You need to come to her rescue again.

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[TankBuster 0]

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Or perhaps some people realize they're not perfect, and thus spend less time telling others how they should live their lives.

Oh dude - Like telling me what kind of car to drive, how much money I can make, which doctor I can use, things like that?

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[nerdgirl 0]

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Sounds like you guys expect better behavior from Republicans than from Democrats. I guess that's a good thing for the Republicans. And if you ladies are thinking of marrying soon - better check party affiliation. Apparently when the Dems cheat its because they don't take the vows seriously anyhow.

Or maybe it’s a deterrence thing … I still remember former Rep Dick Armey’s response when asked, back in 1998, if he was in President Clinton’s place, what he would he done:

“If I were in the President’s place I would not have gotten a chance to resign. I would be lying in a pool of my own blood, hearing Mrs. Armey standing over me saying, ‘How do I reload this damn thing?’”

Maybe Republican men are just more more uh, respectful of Republican women with guns?



[And to be explicit, I am not in any way, shape, or form advocating violence by any side as a means to resolve marital or other problems.]

/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[jerryzflies 0]

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Or perhaps some people realize they're not perfect, and thus spend less time telling others how they should live their lives.

Oh dude - Like telling me what kind of car to drive, how much money I can make, which doctor I can use, things like that?

Give details of the people who have done that.

If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical.

[billvon 3,114]

>Like telling me what kind of car to drive, how much money I can make,
>which doctor I can use, things like that?

DING DING DING! Now you've got it. That's been my point all along.

[mnealtx 0]

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He's not saying that Clinton, Edwards, and Jackson were anymore right or wrong than Ensign, but the point is that Clinton, Edwards, etc didn't preach to the country about 'wholesome conservative values,' or bash gays, or point fingers and call anybody sinners,

I've never heard Ensign preach, bash gays, or call anyone a sinner. Have you? If you have links to any speeches, please provide them.

I guess you missed his comments on Clinton and Craig, both of whom he called on to resign for their pecadillos.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Ensign, let me begin with you. One of Senator Craig's advisers is quoted in The New York Times this morning as saying, "Larry was shocked by the deafening silence by some and the rush to judgment by others, even in his own leadership." Was this a rush to judgment?

SEN. ENSIGN: I don't think so, simply because Larry had admitted guilt. This wasn't like he was just charged with something, especially something that he denied. He had admitted guilt, guilt to something that I thought was not only embarrassing to himself and his family but also to the whole United States Senate. That's one of the things that I -- I'm proudest about our leadership, is the swift action, not only calling for an immediate Senate investigation, ethics investigation, removing him from his committees, but also sending the signal to him that it was probably best that he resign. It was best for himself, best for his family, and best for the institution of the Senate.

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Are you saying that Democrats don't take a stand on fidelity because they know one day they are likely to get caught or because they don't think it's very important?

Maybe it's just because they don't believe in preaching to others on moral issues, like Ensign did.

The issue is hypocrisy, not fidelity.

Indeed:

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"I think it's plain that the president should resign and spare the country the agony of this impeachment and removal proceeding," Clinton said. "I think the country could be spared a lot of agony and the government could worry about inflation and a lot of other problems if he'd go on and resign."
Hammerschmidt said after the president's revelations Monday he was not sure whether Mr. Nixon's actions legally were impeachable.
Clinton, a law professor at the University of Arkansas, said there was "no question that an admission of making false statements to government officials and interfering with the FBI and the CIA is an impeachable offense."

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jerryzflies 0]

So we're agreed that Ensign should resign. Cool.

If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical.

[mnealtx 0]

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So we're agreed that Ensign should resign. Cool.

Only if we're agreed that Clinton SHOULD have resigned.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[TomAiello 26]

Nah. The hypocrite in that case was Hilary "Stand by Your Man and Bake Him Some Cookies" Clinton.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com