DHS - What to do in a public shooting

[JohnRich 4]

The Dept. of Homeland Security has a new "flip book" to guide your actions on how to respond if someone is running amok and shooting people in public or at work:

http://www.lpinformation.com/Portals/0/DHS_ActiveShooter_FlipBook.pdf

I particularly like this part, to be used when running or hiding fails:

Take action against the active shooter. As a last resort, and only when your life is in imminent danger, attempt to disrupt and/or incapacitate the active shooter by:
• Acting as aggressively as possible against him/her
• Throwing items and improvising weapons
• Yelling

So if other people's lives are in imminent danger, screw them. Only take action when he comes for YOU.

Throwing things and yelling? Yeah, that's gonna work real well against a murderous gunman.

Improvising weapons? Hey, I've got an idea. How about we not ban legal concealed handguns from public places and at work, so that we don't have to "improvise". I think it would be much better to have an actual real weapon handy! Then we wouldn't have to worry about trying to stab the bad guy with an ink pen to save our lives.

I like the way they frame everything with the presumption that we are all sheep for the slaughter. They certainly wouldn't want to presume that the citizenry should be allowed the means to fight back effectively!

I would add this to the advice:

• Get a concealed handgun license.
• Shoot the bastard!

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Throwing things and yelling? Yeah, that's gonna work real well against a murderous gunman.

Having been disarmed by my government I'm going to use the only tool available to me: my cellphone.

My first obligation is to my family. If I'm killed the people who get saved aren't going to replace the millions of dollars in income my family looses. If I'm just injured disability doesn't cover it. My family would miss me too. It's not right for me to place other peoples' welfare ahead of my own family's by risking unarmed defense or improvised weapons.

The National Crime and Victimization Surveys show that resisting with a firearm results in the lowest injury and crime completion rates; but when you can't do that the safest thing is running away. Decent people will call 911 too.

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Improvising weapons? Hey, I've got an idea. How about we not ban legal concealed handguns from public places and at work, so that we don't have to "improvise". I think it would be much better to have an actual real weapon handy! Then we wouldn't have to worry about trying to stab the bad guy with an ink pen to save our lives.

That makes people uncomfortable and its more important the voters feel good than actually be safe.

A lot of the politicians are also elitists who don't trust armed people outside the ruling class and their body guards.

[billvon 3,108]

>So if other people's lives are in imminent danger, screw them. Only
>take action when he comes for YOU.

Basically, yes. Being Rambo works great in the movies. In the real world, denying killers targets is a better plan.

>Throwing things and yelling? Yeah, that's gonna work real well against a
>murderous gunman.

I bet even the best-armed evil terrorist in the world would be momentarily distracted by a baseball bat in the head, or a steak knife through the eye. Contrary to pop culture, carrying a gun does not make you immune to such things.

>I think it would be much better to have an actual real weapon handy!

That's great! And if you are ever in a crashing airliner, just open the door, jump out and deploy your parachute.

However, it still makes sense to tell people how to brace for a crash landing - because not everyone has a parachute on an airliner.

[rhaig 0]

difference being my handgun killing an active shooter may save more lives than my own. The rig on your back jumping out of an airliner (nice fiction bill) will save your ass, not anyone elses.

Not everyone needs a concealed handgun. Just a few armed and trained individualsare enough. A few (or even one) carrying CHL holder can ruin a shooter's day and save a bunch of sheeple.

--
Rob

[Belgian_Draft 0]

"Throwing things and yelling? Yeah, that's gonna work real well against a murderous gunman. "
If you are his lone target, probably not. But it would take a well trained and diciplined gunman to continue any kind of aimed fire when half a dozen people start throwing anything they can at him. Might just buy enough time for a couple would be victims to escape.

"• Get a concealed handgun license.
• Shoot the bastard!"

Sounds good to me. But you best set your own gun on the ground as soon as the gunman is neutralized lest somebody else thinks you're a bad guy too.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[billvon 3,108]

> The rig on your back jumping out of an airliner (nice fiction bill) . . .

I like that particular bit of fiction! It's almost as much fun to consider as the Rambo story, where a brave bystander braves a murderous killer, pulls out his gun, shoots him dead, and earns the accolades of all the people he just saved.

> A few (or even one) carrying CHL holder can ruin a shooter's day and
>save a bunch of sheeple.

Well, in that case, consider the DHS advice as intended for those sheeple you look down on, rather than yourself.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Hey Bill, please tell all of us what it is like to be shot at.


I am all ears.

Then you can tell us how you can approach with a steak knife, a shrimp fork, or a plate of quiche.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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> The rig on your back jumping out of an airliner (nice fiction bill) . . .

I like that particular bit of fiction! It's almost as much fun to consider as the Rambo story, where a brave bystander braves a murderous killer, pulls out his gun, shoots him dead, and earns the accolades of all the people he just saved.

> A few (or even one) carrying CHL holder can ruin a shooter's day and
>save a bunch of sheeple.

Well, in that case, consider the DHS advice as intended for those sheeple you look down on, rather than yourself.

It is not fiction Bill a woman did that in her own church.

She did stop someone bent on killing as many as possible with the use of her own concealed gun.

[rehmwa 2]

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Then you can tell us how you can approach with a steak knife, a shrimp fork, or a plate of quiche.

quiche is a legitimate weapon - when the attacker starts to retch and throw up, walk up and hit him in the back of the head

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 3,108]

>when the attacker starts to retch and throw up, walk up and hit him in
> the back of the head.

With what? He will have eaten your weapon at that point. Unless you have a banana you're out of luck.

[rhaig 0]

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Hey Bill, please tell all of us what it is like to be shot at.


I am all ears.

Then you can tell us how you can approach with a steak knife, a shrimp fork, or a plate of quiche.

hey.... nobody mentioned quiche. That's some scary shit. I'd run from that.

--
Rob

[rhaig 0]

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>when the attacker starts to retch and throw up, walk up and hit him in
> the back of the head.

With what? He will have eaten your weapon at that point. Unless you have a banana you're out of luck.

what about a pointed stick?!?

--
Rob

[TomAiello 26]

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>when the attacker starts to retch and throw up, walk up and hit him in
> the back of the head.

With what? He will have eaten your weapon at that point. Unless you have a banana you're out of luck.

Tofu.

Doesn't everyone carry a Back Up Tofu?

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[mnealtx 0]

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>So if other people's lives are in imminent danger, screw them. Only
>take action when he comes for YOU.

Basically, yes. Being Rambo works great in the movies. In the real world, denying killers targets is a better plan.

Wow, so they're going to close all the schools, the shopping malls, etc etc etc?

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>Throwing things and yelling? Yeah, that's gonna work real well against a >murderous gunman.

I bet even the best-armed evil terrorist in the world would be momentarily distracted by a baseball bat in the head, or a steak knife through the eye. Contrary to pop culture, carrying a gun does not make you immune to such things.

You forgot the 90-year old grandma judo-flipping the gunman, I believe.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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It's almost as much fun to consider as the Rambo story, where a brave bystander braves a murderous killer, pulls out his gun, shoots him dead, and earns the accolades of all the people he just saved.

Still better than waiting to be killed, like at VT.

Here's a "Rambo" (sorry, "Rambette") story for you, Bill:

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A Richmond woman thwarted a break-in early Friday by firing a warning shot from a gun.

"She confronted him at the door," Richmond Police Chief Kris Wolski said Friday. "She fired one shot to scare the person off."

Wolski doesn't think the incident is linked to a series of home invasions and sexual assaults of women that have plagued Richmond for about two years.

The 41-year-old female resident in the 200 block of North 21st Street heard a noise and rushed to get the semiautomatic gun, he said. Wolski said her possession and use of the gun was lawful.

Police were called to the scene at 1 a.m. The suspect was wearing a baseball cap under a hoodie, but that's about all the victim could see, Wolski said.

"Hopefully the neighbors saw something," he said. "We're doing more scene processing and getting statements."

At least eight attacks have been attributed to a man who stands about 5 feet 5 inches and strikes in the early morning hours while wearing a mask and dark hoodie.

Four more attacks are possibly linked. His female victims have ranged from a teen-ager to an 81-year-old woman.

Wolski acknowledged that the attacks are on the minds of residents, including Friday's victim.

"She was aware of the other incidents," he said. "Everyone is at a heightened level of awareness."

The police department is getting numerous calls each day with tips about potential suspects in the attacks.

"I think we are making headway," Wolski said.

I guess she should have just waited for him to break in and then judo-flipped him - that always works!!!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 3,108]

>Wow, so they're going to close all the schools, the shopping malls, etc etc etc?

No more so than they're going to stop air travel because no one has parachutes.

>You forgot the 90-year old grandma judo-flipping the gunman,

And you forgot the loganberry wielding assailant. The next time they open a mall and some homicidal maniac comes after shoppers with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me!

[mnealtx 0]

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>Wow, so they're going to close all the schools, the shopping malls, etc etc etc?

No more so than they're going to stop air travel because no one has parachutes.

You're the one that spoke of denying the gunman of targets...that seems to be the gun-free zones, hence my list.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 3,108]

>You're the one that spoke of denying the gunman of targets...

Yep.

Let's say someone in a mall pulls a gun and starts firing into a crowd that you are part of. You have a bag of socks; no gun, baseball bat or loganberry bunch. You are near a wall. Would you:

1) step behind the wall, thus depriving him of a target or
2) remain stationary and trust the law of averages?

[mnealtx 0]

I'd judo-flip him like you did the robber - I figure with all your derisive talk about "Rambos" that you obviously know better than anyone else what is effective and what is not.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 3,108]

>I'd judo-flip him like you did the robber. . .

Looks like you are the audience that document is intended for, then!

[mnealtx 0]

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>I'd judo-flip him like you did the robber. . .

Looks like you are the audience that document is intended for, then!

Yup...I suppose we can't all be von Dammes and get all the glory for judo-flipping the gunman.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 3,108]

>Yup..

Fair enough. Thus we see the need for such a document - to reach people who haven't thought this through.

[rhaig 0]

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people who haven't thought this through.

like I said... the sheeple.

please people... for your own good... be aware. don't be sheeple

--
Rob

[kelpdiver 2]

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>I'd judo-flip him like you did the robber. . .

Looks like you are the audience that document is intended for, then!

Yup...I suppose we can't all be von Dammes and get all the glory for judo-flipping the gunman.

Didn't his wife kick the crap out of him? how could he possibly handle a gunman?

[mnealtx 0]

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>I'd judo-flip him like you did the robber. . .

Looks like you are the audience that document is intended for, then!

Yup...I suppose we can't all be von Dammes and get all the glory for judo-flipping the gunman.

Didn't his wife kick the crap out of him? how could he possibly handle a gunman?

Well, von Damme *really* wants to be like billvon, but hasn't managed it yet.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706