I hate to agree with her...

[freeflybella 0]

Obscurity is not a geographical term.

She was yanked into the limelight so fast she wasn't even properly vetted. To me that means she was an unknown on the national stage. To me that means she was a knee-jerk reaction.

So what possible reason did they have to do that other than "the women vote". It was shallow and insulting.

Once there, on the national stage, she proved over and over again that she was unqualified to hold the position for which she was running.

I live in Philadelphia. Before that, Richmond, Va. Westerville Ohio, San Francisco, Fort leavenworth, Fort hood, Berlin Germany, Fort Dix, Benning and Rucker. I've lived a lot of places and met a lot of people. I don't care where you come from. I never said:

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one must hail from a large, "important," wealthy, and left-leaning state to be qualified for national office.

I voted for Obama. He's none of that.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[TomAiello 26]

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...she proved over and over again that she was unqualified to hold the position for which she was running.

That is your (political) opinion.

Fortunately, we live in a democracy, and the qualifications for holding office are well documented. Whether or not you, individually, feel that someone is good enough to be elected isn't relevant. The electorate still gets to speak, even if they don't know what's good for them.

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one must hail from a large, "important," wealthy, and left-leaning state to be qualified for national office.

I voted for Obama. He's none of that.

He's not from a large, wealthy and left leaning state? Where is Chicago, anyway? Idaho?

And while we're at it, how exactly is being a third of the way into your first term as a senator any less "obscure" than being a governor?

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[freeflybella 0]

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...she proved over and over again that she was unqualified to hold the position for which she was running.

That is your (political) opinion.

True.

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Whether or not you, individually, feel that someone is good enough to be elected isn't relevant.

Sure it is. And if enough people think like me, then she won't be elected.

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He's not from a large, wealthy and left leaning state? Where is Chicago, anyway? Idaho?

Last I heard he was from Hawaii. And not wealthy. Clinton was from Arkansas. The Bush family was wealthy. I don't get your point here. I think maybe you mean I require my candidates to be smart. I guess I do. But I don't think that's arrogant. I think thinking you can capture women's votes by nominating a woman solely because she's a woman is arrogant.

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And while we're at it, how exactly is being a third of the way into your first term as a senator any less "obscure" than being a governor?

My response wasn't about her obscurity per se. Had she been brilliant or knowledgeable or informed it wouldn't be an issue. The fact that she was obscure and doofy and not knowledgeable and uninformed means that she was chosen because she is a woman.

Long way to get back to my original point.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[TomAiello 26]

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Last I heard he was from Hawaii.

I'm pretty sure that last he heard he was from Chicago. In general, I think that where someone is "from" is where they have lived and worked for the last several years (or decades), rather than a place they were born in and shortly left.

As an example, where do you think Sarah Palin is from? I think she's from Alaska, even though she was born in Idaho.

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And not wealthy.

Illinois is not a wealthy state?

I said that candidates did not have to be from large or wealthy states to be considered "qualified." You responded that you had voted for Obama, who was not from a large, wealthy state.


But, if you really mean he wasn't personally wealthy, I think he'd disagree with you. As I recall, Obama defines "wealthy" as a person making over $250,000 per year, which is about a quarter of Obama's income from last year.

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The fact that she was obscure and doofy and not knowledgeable and uninformed means that she was chosen because she is a woman.

Why is it that you focus so immediately on her gender?

Personally, I think she was chosen because she was (a) young, (b) attractive (those two qualities were intended to help in the campaign against the young, attractive Barack Obama) and (c) an evangelical christian (which quality was intended to motivate a part of the Republican base that McCain doesn't appeal to, but which he knew was critical to Bush's electoral success).

Was there another young, attractive, evangelical christian potential candidate? I think the only other Republican who could have fit that bill even marginally was Bobby Jindal, and, let's face it, he's not nearly so attractive as Sarah Palin, and catholics aren't exactly evangelical.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[mnealtx 0]

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Last I heard he was from Hawaii.

Hawaii is part of Illinois, now? Won't Senator Inouye be surprised.

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And not wealthy.

How is making $4.2 MILLION in 2007 defined as "not wealthy" by any stretch of the imagination?

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My response wasn't about her obscurity per se.

Then why do you keep mentioning it (including in this post)?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[lawrocket 3]

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>some how I just KNEW Hilary was an exception ...

She became an exception as soon as she ran for office. Saying you can't criticize her is like saying you can't criticize Bill Clinton because he's Hillary's family.

Not quite the same. I recall the hearings in Congress about the parents advisory committee on music in the 80's. Tipper Gore took a leading role in it.

Dee Snider came in to testify. He was asked about his song lyrics that Tipper Gore claimed to depict sadomasochistic sex. He responded that it was about his guitarist getting ready for throat surgery. And then mentioned the obvious - that it takes sick and perverted thoughts to find that meaning.

A Congressman inyerjected about the attack on the Senator's wife. Dee fired back that she is a person, Tipper Gore, who made these accusations. He is not discussing her as Senator Gore's wife but as Tipper Gore - the person making the allegations.

Hillary - fair game.
McCain's daughter - fair game.
Chelsea - hands off.

When a political family member injects himself or herself it's fair game. When they are victimized by accident of birth, that's fucked up.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kelpdiver 2]

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But Sarah Palin is 100% right. David Letterman owes women everywhere a BIG apology over his remarks.

"During his opening monologue on CBS’ “Late Night” Monday, Letterman poked fun at Palin’s visit with her family to a New York Yankees game this past weekend. “There was one awkward moment during the seventh inning stretch,” Letterman said. “Her daughter was knocked up by Alex Rodriguez.”"
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31275358/ns/today_people/

Apologize for what?

She wants to be President still, in spite of gross incompetence, but still thinks the press needs to treat her softly. I bet Karl Rove loves the irony of it.

[billvon 3,111]

>but still thinks the press needs to treat her softly.

The press (even entertainers) should show her no mercy; make as many "I can see Russia from my house!" jokes as you want. But out of common decency, they shouldn't press attacks on her 14 year old daughter. (IMO of course.)

[likearock 2]

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I didn't like Letterman's jokes. But I think has been blown way out of proportion and is yet another tool to keep the Palins in the news.

I'd say a bigger reason was to keep Letterman competitive with Conan. Interesting with all his remarks about sluts, he is the ultimate ratings whore.

[freeflybella 0]

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>but still thinks the press needs to treat her softly.

The press (even entertainers) should show her no mercy; make as many "I can see Russia from my house!" jokes as you want. But out of common decency, they shouldn't press attacks on her 14 year old daughter. (IMO of course.)

I'm absolutely convinced he was not talking about her 14 year old daughter. I absolutely believe him that he (they, his writers) thought the 18 year old was with her.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[Andy9o8 2]

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He also said that Palin looked like a "slutty flight attendant."

Well, she does. And besides, what guy doesn't have "slutty flight attendant" fantasies? I certainly do. And so do you.

It's also an insult to flight attendant's.

It's also an insult to self-respecting sluts.

[kelpdiver 2]

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>but still thinks the press needs to treat her softly.

The press (even entertainers) should show her no mercy; make as many "I can see Russia from my house!" jokes as you want. But out of common decency, they shouldn't press attacks on her 14 year old daughter. (IMO of course.)

She made her family a bit part of the campaign, and can't be shocked when history backfires. It was a joke - perhaps in poor taste, but we have centuries of history of that in politics.

[Royd 0]

There only seems to be one liberal, who has perfected the art of the apology.

[Royd 0]

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But "Letterman owes an apology to everyone in America"? Don't you guys think that's a bit of an over reaction? Comedians are going to tell tasteless jokes and I'm willing to bet that most people in this forum laugh their asses off at most of them. He stepped over the line in a misstep and apologized. To brand him as the shame of a nation is overkill.

Have we forgotten Imus, and "Nappy headed ho."?

Slutty stewardess, nappy headed ho. Not much difference.

[Royd 0]

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I don't think anyone really cares about Bristol. Talking about her un-wed pregnancy is an easy way to confront one Republican value that doesn't work.

Pray tell, what is the Democrat value that works? Kill 'em and flush it down the toilet?

[Royd 0]

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She was yanked into the limelight so fast she wasn't even properly vetted. To me that means she was an unknown on the national stage. To me that means she was a knee-jerk reaction

Do ya really want to travel down that road?

[Royd 0]

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I think thinking you can capture women's votes by nominating a woman solely because she's a woman is arrogant.

Does that include women nominated to the supreme court?

[Muenkel 0]

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I absolutely believe him that he (they, his writers) thought the 18 year old was with her.

And people say Palin is stupid.

BTW: Before I'm accused of a PA toward freeflybella, my comment was directed at Letterman believing he was joking about the 18 year old. The man has been a professional comedian for as long as Palin has been alive. He knows how to make a joke work and he knows to do his research so the joke does work. I'm not buying that he and his writers thought it was Bristol. On a side note, the show is filmed approximately 6 hours before it is aired. I find it hard to believe that noone on his staff or the editorial staff of CBS picked up on this.

_________________________________________
Chris

[Andy9o8 2]

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I think thinking you can capture women's votes by nominating a woman solely because she's a woman is arrogant.

Does that include women nominated to the supreme court?

BWAHAHAHAAA!!!!

I'll match Sotomayor's resume and qualifications to be a SCOTUS justice against Palin's resume and qualifications to be President-in waiting any fucking day of the week, pal. Make my day.

[Andy9o8 2]

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I don't think anyone really cares about Bristol. Talking about her un-wed pregnancy is an easy way to confront one Republican value that doesn't work.

Pray tell, what is the Democrat value that works? Kill 'em and flush it down the toilet?

No. Sensible and realistic sex education and birth control, as contrasted with "just say no", and the idiotic presumption that education about and access to birth control is the devil's gateway to promiscuity.

[Royd 0]

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I don't think anyone really cares about Bristol. Talking about her un-wed pregnancy is an easy way to confront one Republican value that doesn't work.

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Pray tell, what is the Democrat value that works? Kill 'em and flush it down the toilet?

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No. Sensible and realistic sex education and birth control, as contrasted with "just say no", and the idiotic presumption that education about and access to birth control is the devil's gateway to promiscuity.

It's an education system controlled by liberals, for the purpose of turning children's brains in that direction... How is that working for us, now?

[kelpdiver 2]

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It's an education system controlled by liberals

Really? You might not have noticed the trend with school boards the past two decades then.

If liberals were in charge, we wouldn't keep seeing ID debates.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Pray tell, what is the Democrat value that works? Kill 'em and flush it down the toilet?

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No. Sensible and realistic sex education and birth control, as contrasted with "just say no", and the idiotic presumption that education about and access to birth control is the devil's gateway to promiscuity.

It's an education system controlled by liberals, for the purpose of turning children's brains in that direction... How is that working for us, now?

Hey, I'd think you'd welcome that: The result should be that liberal sexually-irresponsible teens will have lower birthrates due to successful artificial birth control programs, than conservative sexually-irresponsible teens will using the keep-'em-ignorant abstinence-only approach. So, in another 20 or 30 years, the conservatives just might have a shot at winning back Congress and the White House.

[Lefty 0]

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Hey, I'd think you'd welcome that: The result should be that liberal sexually-irresponsible teens will have lower birthrates due to successful artificial birth control programs, than conservative sexually-irresponsible teens will using the keep-'em-ignorant abstinence-only approach. So, in another 20 or 30 years, the conservatives just might have a shot at winning back Congress and the White House.

James Taranto of the WSJ calls that the "Roe Effect". Although, I think he's talking more about abortions than birth control per se. Interesting theory.

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[JohnRich 4]

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I'm absolutely convinced he was not talking about her 14 year old daughter. I absolutely believe him that he (they, his writers) thought the 18 year old was with her.

So it's NOT okay to call her 14-year-old daughter a slut.
But it IS okay to call the 18-year-old daughter a slut?