hungarianchick 0 #26 June 12, 2009 QuoteYou seem angry. Wow. I'm curious as to how you arrived to that assumption. "I love cooking with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflybella 0 #27 June 12, 2009 QuoteWear only plant-based fibers? Ensure that those plants were grown and harvested in a way that prevented the death of other living creatures? Walk everywhere with your face covered to prevent accidental inhalation of micro-insects? Do you stare at the ground in front of you to make sure you don't step on any ants? Do you own a pet which you never treat for fleas or intestinal parasites? Do you own leather shoes, purse? Does your car have leather seats? Face it...living on this planet means destroying other life-forms, including other mammals. No way around it. Not eating meat does little in the grand sceme of things. Your reply to PLFxpert seemed like an attack on her credibility and then a dismissal of her point of view. I guess you assumed she was vegan and pushing an agenda? This is why I lamented the move of this thread to SC. Most times it's all or nothing over here. Sorry if I misinterpreted your post. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #28 June 12, 2009 QuoteI already do all that, Bill. The only way you will get me to eat a twinkie or a fast food burger is to shove it down my throat at gunpoint. My point was about all the hypocrits who claim to care about animal walfare and the environment and and when the discussion is over they drive away in their Hummers with the premium leather seats... I like to appreciate what others do more than focus on what they do not. I agree it is important to practice what you preach. To clarify my position for you (as short as possible): I do not believe humans should not eat any animals or animal by products. I especially do not believe--as long as we do--we should not use any and all of the animal by-products possible. I do believe animals deserve our respect, care and compassion. In my opinion the average American eats and wastes far too much meat and animal products. But, I am all for freedom of choice and would be against any legislation limiting the amount one can consume (though the thought makes me smile). What I advocate--plain and simple with regard to this thread--is major reform to our standard factory-farm practices. Because I grossly disagree with how most of our farm animals are bred, raised, treated & slaughtered I avoid to the best of my ability eating any animals or animal products from these places. And because I am a creature of convenience, I find it easier (and healthier) to eat a largely vegetarian diet. It seems you are of the "all or nothing" position, whereas I am of the "every little bit counts" position. I drive an SUV with leather seats. I bought it used in mint condition and got an amazing deal from the woman who previously owned it. My license plate holder says "Save a life. Opt to adopt.". And often--just driving around the beaches at less than 35 mph--my back window is rolled down and my big hound-mutt is looking out with his nose in the air trying to smell everything and being smiled at by the car behind me. I admit I love my car and would probably have it even if I did not have a big mutt. I justify it because I reduce my carbon footprint in other ways. And I am not sold on the hybrid alternative just yet, but hope the concept stays and is improved upon and to one day own a hybrid. The only way I would be caught in a "smart car" is dead. But, I digress; my original post mentioned nothing about the environment. I am happy you brought up the environmental aspect of eating less meat, however. I find there are three main reasons for eating less animals and animal products and/or caring where those things come from: 1. Health 2. Environment 3. Animal Welfare I also find that regardless of the reason from which one begins to learn and make changes to their lifestyle they soon learn and care more about the others as well.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #29 June 12, 2009 Quote I am of the "every little bit counts" position Quite frankly, if everyone were to do 1 or 2 new things to move the world toward what they considered to be a more sustainable goal, it'd be great. Whether that's the person who doesn't recycle starting to, or the heavy shopper who starts bringing their own bag, or the SUV-driver who's finally convinced of the benefits of lowering their fuel usage , it's not about anyone being perfect. And it's definitely not about making sure someone else is perfect before starting themselves. I try to buy as little factory-farmed meat as possible (not easy at the local groceries), and try to buy at least 2-3 organic or locally grown veggies/fruits whenever I go shopping. I buy cage-free eggs. It probably costs me $5-8 at most a week for this, but that's affordable for us. We compost and recycle. And, frankly, by trying to remain aware of where things come from, it makes me more conscious in general of taking care of what I have and thinking about where it came from. Which means it lasts longer, which means I have more money. I love a happy ending . If I had minimal money, I'm eat very little meat, use cloth bags (well, I do that anyway), buy more used clothes and alter them myself, and consider the gasoline and pollution I was saving as I bunched trips up so that I didn't have to drive as much. Of course, I also jump out of airplanes, and travel by air. I don't have a solar system on my house, and I drive the 3 miles to work most of the time. The only time I'll be perfect is when I'm dead -- then I'll be perfectly dead Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #30 June 12, 2009 Quote Quite frankly, if everyone were to do 1 or 2 new things to move the world toward what they considered to be a more sustainable goal, it'd be great. Whether that's the person who doesn't recycle starting to, or the heavy shopper who starts bringing their own bag I agree, and I am SO excited about my Cat Genie. It uses electricity and water to flush it, and I have no idea what the ratio of that is to the plastic bag I no longer get at the grocery, but it has saved me saying "yes" to plastic (because we used to reuse the plastic grocery bags to put the cat crap in). (BTW, I like to go use my big Costco reusable bag at my grocery. It is WAY easier to bring in a load of groceries. Quote I try to buy as little factory-farmed meat as possible (not easy at the local groceries), and try to buy at least 2-3 organic or locally grown veggies/fruits whenever I go shopping. I buy cage-free eggs. It probably costs me $5-8 at most a week for this, but that's affordable for us. We compost and recycle. And, frankly, by trying to remain aware of where things come from, it makes me more conscious in general of taking care of what I have and thinking about where it came from. Which means it lasts longer, which means I have more money. I love a happy ending Agree! And despite my mother-in-law saying consumer reports did not rate the Debbie Meyer green bags so well, I would say they are definitely worth it. My broccoli lasts three weeks! My spinach and arugula two. My apples and avocados never die before I can possibly eat them. I LOVE the green bags! Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #31 June 12, 2009 >My point was about all the hypocrits who claim to care about animal walfare >and the environment and and when the discussion is over they drive away in their >Hummers with the premium leather seats... I agree, there are a lot of hypocrites out there. But there's also value to making incremental improvements - and there are ways to get what you want and still do less damage. For example - in terms of car choice, a Yaris is a great choice. But if you have your heart set on a Hummer, you could go with these options: http://www.inhabitat.com/2009/04/28/raser-unveils-100mpg-hummer-h3/ http://www.gmhummer.com/hummerspecs/h2h/main.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nataly 38 #32 June 12, 2009 Quote >My point was about all the hypocrits who claim to care about animal walfare >and the environment and and when the discussion is over they drive away in their >Hummers with the premium leather seats... I agree, there are a lot of hypocrites out there.*** Yeah.. I once met a hard-core vegan who was very passionate about saving animals, etc, but she had the most devine (real) leather coat.. I couldn't quite reconcile the idea that eating the cow was inhumane, but skinning it was ok?!! I'm not saying you have to be a 100% purist in order to make a difference, but I did think this particular case was odd, to say the least! "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
