Andy9o8 2 #51 June 5, 2009 Quote Quote Flat earth people are idiots. They are wrong. Round earth is the truth. Any chance you could modernize your example? It's more than 3 centuries out of date. Nope. The Earth has been round for longer than that. I think. Sigh. Fine. [cough!!]evolution![/cough!!] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #52 June 5, 2009 QuoteQuoteFlat earth people are idiots. They are wrong. Round earth is the truth. Any chance you could modernize your example? It's more than 3 centuries out of date. are you saying that there aren't people who still believe the earth is flat?-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #53 June 5, 2009 I do not dislike her any more than any other politician I've met or seen in person. I think when you see them speak unedited and relatively unrehearsed, on a topic you know enough about to identify the bullshit - only then do you get a true measure. In her early days as First Lady when she was trying to garner support for her vision of health care reform she was obviously parroting her advisors; and stumbling badly during panel discussion and Q&A time. The nearly unbelievable insincerity of her pitches for votes in her Senate race were pretty over the top too. Again, nothing they don't all appear to be doing; so I dislike her the same as all professional politicians." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #54 June 5, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Flat earth people are idiots. They are wrong. Round earth is the truth. Any chance you could modernize your example? It's more than 3 centuries out of date. Nope. The Earth has been round for longer than that. I think. Sigh. Fine. [cough!!]evolution![/cough!!] You guys are _misunderestimating_ the idiocy of some of our contemporary men. http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/ http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_SocietyRemster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #55 June 5, 2009 QuoteYou guys are _misunderestimating_ the idiocy of some of our contemporary men. http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/ http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society But, geologists tell us the earth is made out of 'plates' it's peer reviewed ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #56 June 5, 2009 QuoteFlat earth people are idiots. They are wrong. Round earth is the truth. See, i can say that and you might agree....but they wouldn't. They'd say, "you're mean and arrogant! you should say 'flat earth people profess opinions that i disagree with!'" And of course, you could righteously say "You're ignorant." Or stupid. Fact means nothing. I did a quick yahoo search for "'Proposition 8' and 'ignorant'" and came up with 359,000 hits. "Ignorant" means: (1) Lacking education or knowledge; (2) Showing or arising from lack of education or knowledge; and (3) Unaware or uninformed. Were those who voted "Yes" on 8 uneducated? Certainly not all of them! I'd think a rather large percentage are educated. I am sure a very large portion of my classmates voted Yes on Prop. 8. Did they lack knowledge? Some of them, yes. But I also believe that a number of them knew that they were banning gay marriage in California - which is exactly what they wanted to do. "Ignorance" was not a reason for the passage of Prop. 8. Subjective personal beliefs and disagreement was the reason for the passage. Thus, for a person to allege "ignorance" on the Passage of Pro. 8 would require this thought process: "Those who voted for Prop. 8 are ignorant." "Ignorant means they are uneducated and unknowing." "Those who are educated and knowledgeable would not vote for Prop. 8." Either: "I am educated and knowledgeable, therefore I voted against Prop. 8" or "I voted against Prop. 8, therefore I am educated and knowledgeable." Again, when personal subjective belief is put forth as objective fact, to me it indicates a break from reality. It also creates a presumption of arrogance that a person perceives him or herself as such an authority that the person would couch subjective beliefs into objective terms. "The earth is round. I can prove it." - Factual. Not arrogant. "The earth is round. You're ignorant." - Fact. Then opinion. (How do we know the person is ignorant. This person may be armed with all knowledge needed.) In which case the person who is "arrogant" may himself or herself be "ignorant." My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #57 June 5, 2009 QuoteI think this would count as an example of vituperative hatred. I think you would be wrong. But I understand that this thread is based on the assumption that you believe so many despise her for reasons that are not warranted, so your misreading of my reply is expected. I don't even see how "vituperative" and "hatred" make sense put next to each other - seems like it isn't a proper modifier for hatred. QuoteDo you have any basis for your assertion? On the subject of Hillary cheating on Bill, just what I've seen reported over the years, I don't know if anything has been as solid as Bill's infidelity. On the subject of Bill cheating on Hillary, that is so widespread, after the interview with both of them before Bill was first elected, we were supposed to believe that there wouldn't be any more cheating, it continued. He had state troopers bringing girls to him, even the white house staff tried to assist Hillary's efforts to keep him away from Monica Lewinsky. I read the testimony in the Lewisnsky and Jones cases, and it was obvious that Hillary and the White House staff had among their duties to try and control Bill's cheating, Hillary was completely aware that he kept doing it. I simply think that either she didn't care and was still true to him (unlikely), or that she was much more discreet with her other interests. Of course that is their business, I don't care if they have an open marriage, but for Hillary to play the "stand by your man" junk is really insulting. Those kind of insults contribute to people despising her. You wanted to know "What it is about Hillary Clinton", it seems like you've had a lot of people describe it to you, doesn't it seem like it is reasonable? Do you think it is just a partisan issue?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #58 June 5, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteYet, strangely, most people know exactly what he is talking about. That would be expected in a nation where so many people are proud of their ignorance. Your opinion, obviously...and an elitist one at that, unless you're including yourself as one of those who are "proud of their ignorance". Sure, my opinion is an elitist one. I strongly believe that more education is superior to less education. I've encountered far too many uneducated people in this country who lack the good sense to recognize themselves to be morons.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #59 June 5, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteYet, strangely, most people know exactly what he is talking about. That would be expected in a nation where so many people are proud of their ignorance. So ignorance is when people know? ??? Translation, please?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #60 June 5, 2009 QuoteI think "ignorant" is being redefined as "people with whom I disagree." Not by me, it isn't.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #61 June 5, 2009 Quoteahhh...but what, then, is "opinion?" would me saying people who hold the "opinion" that the earth is flat are ignorant and unworthy of a response make me an Ivory tower Elitist? If so, then i guess I am. Are you trying to compete with Billvon for really crappy analogies? You are doing very well.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,588 #62 June 5, 2009 QuoteBut I understand that this thread is based on the assumption that you believe so many despise her for reasons that are not warranted, so your misreading of my reply is expected.No, I asked because I don't understand. The fact that I don't necessarily agree is irrelevant -- I'm interested in understanding. Lawrocket got me to understand one of the rationales for wanting Clinton impeached. Not sure I agree now, but I understand it in a legal and legitimate way -- it wasn't based on feelings, it was based on fact and precedent. And thanks, lawrocket. That's what I'm looking for. QuoteI don't know if anything has been as solid as Bill's infidelityThere is little as solid as that Bill Clinton cheated on his wife. Even my father accepted that (and trust me, he really, really liked Bill Clinton). I haven't seen anything but "she must be" about Hillary and cheating. Never seen anything resembling a date or data. And I'm not sure where I'm telling people they're wrong. I did ask you if you had a basis; I probably could have left out the crack out about your comment exemplifying vituperative hatred. But it really is the basis I'm looking for. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #63 June 5, 2009 QuoteWere those who voted "Yes" on 8 uneducated? Certainly not all of them! Right. Some were just bigoted. Others, OTOH, voted for Proposition 8 because the think that homosexuality is a choice, homosexuality leads to incest, or any one of many other false claims made out of ignorance (or perhaps bigotry, in some cases). QuoteI'd think a rather large percentage are educated. One can be educated and ignorant simultaneously. You're educated. I'm quite sure I could find a topic or two about which you are ignorant.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #64 June 5, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteYet, strangely, most people know exactly what he is talking about. That would be expected in a nation where so many people are proud of their ignorance. Your opinion, obviously...and an elitist one at that, unless you're including yourself as one of those who are "proud of their ignorance". Sure, my opinion is an elitist one. I strongly believe that more education is superior to less education. I've encountered far too many uneducated people in this country who lack the good sense to recognize themselves to be morons. You'd think someone who feels so strongly about education would know the difference between a moron and an ignoramus. We are all ignoramuses. To think otherwise is lacking humility.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #65 June 5, 2009 QuoteSome were just bigoted. Right. Some were highly educated and not bigoted. Some actually saw thing like, "Gay marriage may be illusory because there are still issues of federal law that do not apply to same sex couples, thus meaning that gay marriage is unworkable with the federal system. Gay marriage may cause tremendous issues with administration of justice because these issues are not resolvable at state level." I personally don't think it's enough but the argument has merit. QuoteOne can be educated and ignorant simultaneously. You're educated. I'm quite sure I could find a topic or two about which you are ignorant. Absolutely. I'm sure you could find thousands within a span of just a couple of hours. Would you therefore admit to being ignorant as to the nature of the feelings of many of those who voted "Yes" on 8? I do. I am ignorant as to the reasons why everybody except me and perhaps a handful of others voted why they did. I think, however, that blanket allegations of ignorance are a form of ignorance. I myself am content with merely stating, "I disagree with Proposition 8 and vote 'No.'" Some may then allege that I am a queer lover. They may allege that I am ignorant. Anyone who would allege to know anybody's motivations is probably ignorant. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #66 June 5, 2009 QuoteLawrocket got me to understand one of the rationales for wanting Clinton impeached. Not sure I agree now, but I understand it in a legal and legitimate way -- it wasn't based on feelings, it was based on fact and precedent. And thanks, lawrocket. Yes. And if you'll recall, it wasn't a reason that was ever brought up by anyone. The impeachment as performed was a travesty. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #67 June 5, 2009 Quote You guys are _misunderestimating_ the idiocy of some of our contemporary men. http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/ http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society Wiki describes the membership of that society as 3000 people. Not exactly an army of idiots. Dwarfed by the much more relevant example of ID nuts railing against evolution, or the dumpster hippies going on about 9/11 conspiracies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #68 June 5, 2009 QuoteQuoteSome were just bigoted. Right. Some were highly educated and not bigoted. Some actually saw thing like, "Gay marriage may be illusory because there are still issues of federal law that do not apply to same sex couples, thus meaning that gay marriage is unworkable with the federal system. Gay marriage may cause tremendous issues with administration of justice because these issues are not resolvable at state level." OK, that covers the 3000 members of the Flat Earth Society. No one voted for it for those reasons. Most yes voters were anti-gay. A good chunk after that did what their religion/pastor told them to. A significant enough portion (to pass 50%) are content for gays to exist elsewhere, preferably in the closet, but were afraid of the lies that their children would have to go to gay weddings and learn about dildos. Possibly a small number thought they were voting for gay marriage, but that level of ignorance came from not reading the ballot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #69 June 5, 2009 QuoteYou'd think someone who feels so strongly about education would know the difference between a moron and an ignoramus. I'm fully aware of the difference. I merely pointed out that the two sets are not mutually exclusive.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #70 June 5, 2009 QuoteWould you therefore admit to being ignorant as to the nature of the feelings of many of those who voted "Yes" on 8? I never claimed to know the feelings of everyone who voted "Yes" on 8. It is entirely possible that some based their affirmative vote on reasons that were based in neither bigotry or ignorance. I have yet to hear an example of such a reason, but I readily acknowledge that the possibility exists. QuoteAnyone who would allege to know anybody's motivations is probably ignorant. Agreed. Of course, that's different from characterizing motivations that have been made known, as I'm sure you are aware. Recognizing that something is a text book example of bigotry, for example, is actually the opposite of ignorance. Not recognizing it as bigotry would be ignorance.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #71 June 5, 2009 QuoteQuoteYou'd think someone who feels so strongly about education would know the difference between a moron and an ignoramus. I'm fully aware of the difference. I merely pointed out that the two sets are not mutually exclusive. So what level of education would you deem someone to not be a moron or even your equal?www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #72 June 5, 2009 QuoteSo what level of education would you deem someone to not be a moron or even your equal? ??? That's not a sufficient metric for such purpose.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #73 June 5, 2009 Quote I've encountered far too many uneducated people in this country who lack the good sense to recognize themselves to be morons. Then help me understand the above quote because on the surface it appears to be an ignorant assed statement. uneducated = moron Now what level of education makes one not a moron?www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #74 June 5, 2009 Quote Quote I've encountered far too many uneducated people in this country who lack the good sense to recognize themselves to be morons. Then help me understand the above quote because on the surface it appears to an ignorant assed statement. uneducated = moron Now what level of education makes one not a moron? One cannot logically infer uneducated = moron from my statement.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #75 June 5, 2009 Quote Quote Quote I've encountered far too many uneducated people in this country who lack the good sense to recognize themselves to be morons. Then help me understand the above quote because on the surface it appears to an ignorant assed statement. uneducated = moron Now what level of education makes one not a moron? One cannot logically infer uneducated = moron from my statement. Then wtf was it you were infering?www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
