What is it about Hillary Clinton

[wmw999 2,589]

That inspires such vituperative hatred among some? I mean, every single politician out there wants power -- it's what the game is about. I thought she was the wrong candidate for President.

But what exactly is it? There have been other women who were powerful, well-educated, arrogant, manipulative, intelligent, and many other things that would appear to describe her.

Is she really worth all the bile?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[downwardspiral 0]

she's an intelectually agile politician.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[billvon 3,119]

To many, she is a proxy they can use to attack Bill Clinton, who was one of the more successful, popular presidents in recent history. The endless CDIF's are a good example of the level of anger many conservatives feel towards him.

He's not going to run for office again, so attacks on him are now wasted. But by attacking his wife, they can express their anger towards Clinton while simultaneously (they hope) prevent her from attaining any higher office.

[downwardspiral 0]

I think Hilary can stand on her own merit.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[rehmwa 2]

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To many, she is a proxy they can use to attack Bill Clinton, who was one of the more successful, popular presidents in recent history. The endless CDIF's are a good example of the level of anger many conservatives feel towards him.

OH, so that's it! So then the whole "Bush did it first" is what the left is going through?

ok, that makes a lot more sense


anyway, what's the deal about Hillary

Hillary was a child actor of unique appearance and ability. She starred in many films growing up and turned into a nice young woman. At some point, she decided to get a nose job. We don't see her much in movies any more.

I can't recall if it's the Duff girl - cute
or the Swank girl - horsefaced, but with some acting awards

we are talking about

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[mnealtx 0]

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The endless CDIF's are a good example of the level of anger many conservatives feel towards him.

Um, no - project much? The 'endless CDIF's" are/were in response to the howls of outrage over something Bush or the Reps did while pointedly IGNORING the fact that Clinton or the Dems had been doing the exact same things without a peep of protest from the left.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Beachbum 0]

I have to respect her intelligence and abilities in the political arena, but I don't have to like the way she manages to come across as so incredibly smug a lot of the time. That is enough to make me dislike anyone (as if just being a politician wasn't already enough to do that!!). Yes, for a lot of people, it may be related to Bill, but I don't believe that applies to most. I think she generates the dislike all on her own.

As long as you are happy with yourself ... who cares what the rest of the world thinks?

[billvon 3,119]

>So then the whole "Bush did it first" is what the left is going through?

Basically, yes. If Laura Bush ran for president, I'd expect the same sort of reaction from the left.

[TomAiello 26]

I wonder if it has to do with the impression that she wasn't elected, but rather gained political power as the spouse of an elected official. Her first introduction to the national stage was on that basis, and to make things worse, was on a highly contentious issue (healthcare).

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[wmw999 2,589]

That makes sense. Of course, we don't have the same stigma when it comes to father/son (and maybe father/daughter) power stuff.

Kennedy making his brother Attorney General was pretty doubtful, and would have really raised a shitstorm these days.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Andy9o8 2]

It's probably because she's a woman over 40 with brains, an advanced degree, and a short, sandy-colored hairstyle.

[wmw999 2,589]

Whew -- over 40, some brains, short sandy-colored hair, but only a bachelor's

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rehmwa 2]

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It's probably because she's a woman over 40 with brains, an advanced degree, and a short, sandy-colored hairstyle.

and cheeks that have expanded every single year since she came into public view - don't forget that - chipmunks are in awe

so should we all

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[mnealtx 0]

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It's probably because she's a woman over 40 with brains, an advanced degree, and a short, sandy-colored hairstyle.

Not at all - it's because she endangers everyone around her - just ask Sinbad.

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As Sinbad put it: "What kind of president would say, 'Hey, man, I can't go 'cause I might get shot so I'm going to send my wife...oh, and take a guitar player and a comedian with you.'"

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Andy9o8 2]

I fail to see the connection.

[TomAiello 26]

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That makes sense. Of course, we don't have the same stigma when it comes to father/son (and maybe father/daughter) power stuff.

Hard to say, because in most of those cases (the Bushes, most of the Kennedy clan, Nancy Pelosi, etc) the child achieved elected office before being handed a power position.

Also, we, as a society, may be more prepared to accept a bias for the children of a powerful person, where a spouse draws a "gold-digger" reaction.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[rehmwa 2]

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I fail to see the connection.

She's the one on the right.

It was brief stint at child acting - until her voice changed

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Andy9o8 2]

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That makes sense. Of course, we don't have the same stigma when it comes to father/son (and maybe father/daughter) power stuff.

Kennedy making his brother Attorney General was pretty doubtful, and would have really raised a shitstorm these days.

Or a spouse (usually wife) succeeding a spouse. Example, Gov. George Wallace (Ala.) was constitutionally limited to single, non-consecutive terms. So, upon mandatory office-leaving, his wife succeeded him. She died in office; but after the Lt. Gov. completed the term, Wallace succeeded her back into that office again.

Bobby Kennedy's ascension to AG at age 35 actually did cause a shit-storm, but because JFK was wildly popular, it wasn't big enough to put the kabash on it. (Yes, today it would have been worse.)

It was also a pretty big shit-storm when Ted Kennedy, just aged 30 and never having held any office, ran for US Senate in 1962. In a debate, his opponent quite rightly stung him by pointing out that, but for his family name, his candidacy would have been "a joke". But alas, Old Joe's money and JFK's popularity (in that order) won the day again.

[lawrocket 3]

Here are my issues with her.

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There have been other women who were powerful, well-educated, arrogant, manipulative, intelligent, and many other things that would appear to describe her.

Indeed. Notably, to me, is the "arrogance." She comes off as arrogant. She comes off as the sort who is absolutely convinced of her own superiority. It is her approach to things. Her demeanor.

To me, it started with the Tammy Wynette comment about not just standing by her man. Which she did. And her comments that were derisive of women who stayed home and baked cookies.

Now, some take issue with her role in policy. I don't - it seems that Bill Clinton trusted her. It was partly her arrogance that was seized upon in opposing her national healthcare plan. Of course, this was a prime mover in the 1994 GOP electoral landslide. Recall that she an BNill Clinton were pretty much hated - I think her approval rating was below 40% in those elections.

Then let us move to Lewinsky and the "vast right--wing conspiracy." No, it wasn't a conspiracy. It turned out to be true. And she stood by her man.

Then there is the carpetbager assertion. Yes, what she did was allowed, but there seems to be some credibility in the assertion. Regardless, the voters in the cities won out and elected her.

Now, as a senator she's probably done a good job representing her constitutents.

During the primary campaign, she race baited. Again, I viewed her campaign's undertone as, "The Democratic Party owes Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton owes me."

Now, while I thought she did a good job as senator (just because I disagree with her policies doesn't mean I think she did a bad job) I have yet to see anything from her that approaches making a deal. Perhaps she learned from her time as First Lady that many things cannot be pushed (i.e., my personal opinion that Clinton's timetable on getting a peace deal between Israel and Palestine ended up making things worse).

My criticism of Condoleeza Rice is that she never seemed to be able to make a deal. Can Hillary?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[lawrocket 3]

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Of course, we don't have the same stigma when it comes to father/son (and maybe father/daughter) power stuff.

That is certainly true of many.

Still, there is an amalgam of factors. I've stated my own. Michelle Obama is actually a pretty close parallel in terms of career development, education, age, etc. But Michelle Obama lacks the coarseness and outward arrogance of Hillary Clinton.

It's that kind of thing. Yes, it's personality.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[sundevil777 102]

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To many, she is a proxy they can use to attack Bill Clinton, who was one of the more successful, popular presidents in recent history. The endless CDIF's are a good example of the level of anger many conservatives feel towards him.

He's not going to run for office again, so attacks on him are now wasted. But by attacking his wife, they can express their anger towards Clinton while simultaneously (they hope) prevent her from attaining any higher office.

That is really a bunch of fucking crap! If you're going to speculate about what motivates others to do things, please admit you are speculating, instead of claiming that you actually know anything about it.

She is intensely disliked by many, many people that worked with her, people that were liberal democrats. What they describe about her has nothing to do with her husband, it has to do with her, and goes beyond what these political insiders see in other politicians, even those with large egos.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[billvon 3,119]

>That is really a bunch of fucking crap!

Wow, didn't know it would get you so angry! Perhaps there's more to it than I thought . . .

>What they describe about her has nothing to do with her husband . . .

If that were true, then no one would have been discussing the problems of a "Clinton dynasty." In fact (not speculation) many conservatives were discussing just that. So your statement is provably untrue.

Now, does that mean that all conservatives feel the same way? (or even liberals who don't like her) Not at all. It's just one potential cause.

[happythoughts 0]

The main problem seems to be a difference in ethics.

During her election, people with ethics pointed out her weekly
lies and blatant use of racism in her campaign.
She lies. She has always lied. She has a history of it.
It is the major theme of her life.

During her campaign, there were so many SC threads about the different lies that they had to be consolidated.

People without ethics seem to be ok with her lies.

I don't think that she can tell the difference any more.

[sundevil777 102]

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>What they describe about her has nothing to do with her husband . . .

If that were true, then no one would have been discussing the problems of a "Clinton dynasty." In fact (not speculation) many conservatives were discussing just that. So your statement is provably untrue.

I think the Clinton dynasty has nothing to do with it. A dynasty in general will be resented, but the dislike of Hillary is very personal, about her personality.

What I said was not that conservatives dislike her, it was that liberal colleagues dislike her. If her allies, those that would normally be inclined to like her think she's awful, why should it be any surprise that adversaries agree?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[kelpdiver 2]

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But what exactly is it? There have been other women who were powerful, well-educated, arrogant, manipulative, intelligent, and many other things that would appear to describe her.

Lawrocket covered most of the bases - it started back with the cookies crack that established her as an elitist bitch who believed herself above the commoners. This was before Bill even took office, and before his successful Administration required other tactics. Once you set a bad impression, every little action just reinforced the original opinion.

Then there was her consideration as First Lady as being Co-President. That seemed to rub a lot of people badly. Some sexism in this, but historically the FL is not an active player, not elected by the people. And of course the issue of health care reform was rather polarizing and it failed, so both sides of the issue weren't happy with her.

Next you have the power abuses - that early firing of the travel office people. A few years later, some punk kid at the Daily Cal wrote a column talking about hassling Chelsea since she was going to Stanfurd. The usual hot air about a rival. Secret Service showed up promptly at the door.

Anti-intellectualism has also been on the rise. She's a smart lady, but certainly not a charismatic one. She's not Bill, though I wonder if America would have liked him less if he weren't a bit fat and in love with McDonald's. Seems to take the edge off his attribute as a smart (ass). The last Bush clearly dumbed down his speech to look like a regular Texan, not the son of a Maine dynasty.

She has to (grossly) embellish the truth for reasons that escape everyone else. The sniper story just reinforced the long running viewpoints. The carpetbagging to NY was disgraceful. She never held office before, but viewed that seat as a given. Not quite the same story for someone like Feinstein, who had to take over as mayor in the aftermath of a bloodbath.