winsor 236 #26 June 2, 2009 Quote>Shockingly, perhaps, there are actually some people posting on these >forums who have expertise in the things they are posting about. Even more shockingly, there are people who actually put out fires who know something about dealing with burning explosives! Hard to believe, I know . . . FWIW, smokeless powder is not an explosive - it is a propellant. It does not explode, it burns (very rapidly, but burn it does). The lead styphnate in primers qualifies as an explosive, but it is such a small percentage of the overall mass of ammunition that its effect is marginalized. Having been a fireman (with a volunteer company), I can assure you that I know a hell of a lot more about the characteristics of burning ammunition from my experience as a firearms instructor and handloader than do 99% of firefighting personnel out there. As an aside, composition C-4 burns quite nicely if ignited by flame in the open, and works great for heating C rations. The important thing to remember is to let it burn out by itself - if you try to stamp it out, it remembers that it is high explosive immediately. BSBD, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #27 June 2, 2009 QuoteFWIW, smokeless powder is not an explosive - it is a propellant. It does not explode, it burns (very rapidly, but burn it does). It only burns rapidly when contained inside a case, and ignited by a quick primer flash. When you pour gunpowder out on the ground and light it with a match, it burns so slow it's boring. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #28 June 2, 2009 Quote >Was there any damage to neighboring property caused by explosives? Given that police evacuated nearby homes, clearly they thought there was a risk of damage or injury to neighboring property. In this case, however, I would assume that the permitting process worked as intended, and there were enough safeguards in place (physical distance, fire alarms, container material, whatever) to mitigate the risk. Unlike the guy down the block from me that had a couple spare propane tanks in his garage...now THAT was an explosion! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #29 June 2, 2009 QuoteQuoteFWIW, smokeless powder is not an explosive - it is a propellant. It does not explode, it burns (very rapidly, but burn it does). It only burns rapidly when contained inside a case, and ignited by a quick primer flash. When you pour gunpowder out on the ground and light it with a match, it burns so slow it's boring. Hmmm, doesn't seem like it needs to be set off by a "quick primer flash" as long as it's in a container. It doesn't seem to need to be packed into the container either. As for being "so slow it's boring" . . . yeah, maybe in small amounts in a line. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-IRI1bA5jw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJp6VZeImiE I dunno . . . looks kinda exciting to me and I'm not thinking the video lies here too much either. I think 1 kilo of it made an ok boom and that's only 1/3 (or thereabouts) of the 8 pounds you were talking about and quite a bit less than the 40 you say is allowable.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #30 June 2, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteFWIW, smokeless powder is not an explosive - it is a propellant. It does not explode, it burns (very rapidly, but burn it does). It only burns rapidly when contained inside a case, and ignited by a quick primer flash. When you pour gunpowder out on the ground and light it with a match, it burns so slow it's boring. Hmmm, doesn't seem like it needs to be set off by a "quick primer flash" as long as it's in a container. It doesn't seem to need to be packed into the container either. As for being "so slow it's boring" . . . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJp6VZeImiE I dunno . . . looks kinda exciting to me and I'm not thinking the video lies here too much either. Jeezuss. Learn about guns before talking about them.... "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #31 June 2, 2009 QuoteJeezuss. Learn about guns before talking about them.... Who's talking abut guns? I believe JR was talking about gunpowder. Do you have evidence that maybe the guys on Mythbusters were not telling the truth about how this stuff behaves? If so, please, SHOW me.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #32 June 2, 2009 Quotejust how much ammo should you be allowed to store at your home? As much as you fukin' want..... These "in home" questions make me laugh. Don't U get it?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #33 June 2, 2009 QuoteAs much as you fukin' want..... So you feel like you should be able to have any quantity of any substance on your property? I'm not so sure the rest of the world agrees with you.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #34 June 2, 2009 Quote I'm not so sure the rest of the world agrees with you. oh...I know that...but what is the right to bear arms supposed to protect us from?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #35 June 2, 2009 QuoteQuoteJeezuss. Learn about guns before talking about them.... Who's talking abut guns? I believe JR was talking about gunpowder. Do you have evidence that maybe the guys on Mythbusters were not telling the truth about how this stuff behaves? If so, please, SHOW me. Mythbusters was using Black Powder (real BP, not Pyrodex). JR was talking about Smokeless Powder. Big difference. Do a little research. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #36 June 2, 2009 QuoteQuoteAs much as you fukin' want..... So you feel like you should be able to have any quantity of any substance on your property? I'm not so sure the rest of the world agrees with you. Serious question: How many propne tanks (or total propane) do you think you should be allowed to store in your home? Would you equate the potential fire hazard from gunpowder to propane, or are you more worried about the gunpowder, even if the hazard is the same?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #37 June 2, 2009 QuoteQuoteJeezuss. Learn about guns before talking about them.... Who's talking abut guns? I believe JR was talking about gunpowder. Do you have evidence that maybe the guys on Mythbusters were not telling the truth about how this stuff behaves? If so, please, SHOW me. The Mythbuster guys clearly stated that it was Blackpowder not smokeless. Blackpowder is classed as an explosive. Smokeless is a propellant. For what it's worth, loaded ammunition - packed in boxes for commercial sale - ISN"T CONSIDERED AS HAZMAT by the DOT. No shit. Look in the hazmat guide. I pulled a load of 34,000 pounds of loaded ammo from the Federal plant in Anoka MN down to a "large retail distribution center". I couldn't believe it at first, but after looking through my book, and a 10 minute phone call to my safety department, I rolled down the road with no placards whatsoever."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #38 June 2, 2009 Mythbusters is ENTERTAINMENT, NOT EDUCATION.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #39 June 2, 2009 Quoteloaded ammunition - packed in boxes for commercial sale - ISN"T CONSIDERED AS HAZMAT by the DOT. Correct. You can have ammo delivered to your home without a hazmat fee. All it requires is an "ORM-D" sticker, indicating that it's classified as "other related material - category D". The airlines even allow loaded ammo in the cargo hold during flights, when packed in original containers. Boxes of primers, on the other hand, do require a hazmat fee. A primer is just a fancy version of a cap, as used in a child's cap gun - when it's struck sharply, it produces a bang and a flash. They are packaged to prevent them from bumping into anything during shipping and handling, with each tiny little cup in its own separate compartment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #40 June 2, 2009 QuoteQuoteFWIW, smokeless powder is not an explosive - it is a propellant. It does not explode, it burns (very rapidly, but burn it does). It only burns rapidly when contained inside a case, and ignited by a quick primer flash. When you pour gunpowder out on the ground and light it with a match, it burns so slow it's boring. If all you guys want to get technical, you can play the same games with ANFO. Prilled ANFO does not detonate, it deflagrates. Even confined.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #41 June 2, 2009 I never could figure out how some of those little guys get flipped upside down without falling out of the package. Makes putting them in the auto-primer so damn time consuming. Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,111 #42 June 2, 2009 >If all you guys want to get technical, you can play the same games with ANFO. True. And uranium! Try to burn uranium, and not much happens. Therefore it is safe to store in any quantity! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #43 June 2, 2009 Quote I never could figure out how some of those little guys get flipped upside down without falling out of the package. Makes putting them in the auto-primer so damn time consuming. Don't you have a primer flip tray? It's a dish that has a top and a bottom, with one side containing a bunch of grooves. You dump the primers into the grooved dish, and shake them around. The grooves cause the upside-down primers to flip right-side up. Then you put the lid on, which holds them in place, and flip the whole tray over. Remove the top (formerly the bottom), and now the primers are all oriented correctly for loading into the feed tubes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #44 June 2, 2009 QuoteAnd uranium! Try to burn uranium, and not much happens. Therefore it is safe to store in any quantity! Have you taken over kallend's job of posting ridiculous anti-gun messages? Come to think of it, you're a lot like him - he too professed to support gun ownership, while speaking out against it at every opportunity in gun threads. He too knows that many of his arguments are ridiculous, but makes them anyway in the hopes of fooling some people. Don't ruin your reputation by stooping to kallend tactics. If you have some argument as to why gunpowder is unsafe to store in the home, then make it. But comparing it to uranium does you no good. The fact is, the difference in burn rates between black powder and modern gunpowder is vast. Trying to dismiss that as just a "technicality" shows that you aren't reasonable. "All parachutes are equal!" That's the kind of stupid argument an uninformed whuffo would make. You are speaking like a gun whuffo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #45 June 2, 2009 Quote . . . job of posting ridiculous anti-gun messages? Bill's example isn't anti-gun, it's anti-you-can-have-anything-in-any-quantities-you-want-in-a-residential-section. I think it's reasonable to restrict certain amounts of certain items because when they're gathered together in a pile, they're more dangerous than when spread out. This applies to a lot of substances. A gallon jug of pool chlorine is "fairly" harmless, but to have a 30' shipping container full of it in your backyard would be a concern. A 5 gallon propane tank hooked up to your barbeque, fine. A 5,000 gallon propane tank in a residential neighborhood; that's a problem. There's a reason why people keep fireproof containers for oily rags. There's a reason why animal control gets involved with crazy cat ladies.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #46 June 2, 2009 Quote Quote I never could figure out how some of those little guys get flipped upside down without falling out of the package. Makes putting them in the auto-primer so damn time consuming. Don't you have a primer flip tray? It's a dish that has a top and a bottom, with one side containing a bunch of grooves. You dump the primers into the grooved dish, and shake them around. The grooves cause the upside-down primers to flip right-side up. Then you put the lid on, which holds them in place, and flip the whole tray over. Remove the top (formerly the bottom), and now the primers are all oriented correctly for loading into the feed tubes. LOL. You're assuming my press has a feed tube. Mine is a single stage RCBS. I prime the brass with a hand held priming device I picked up at Sportsmans. It has a tray on top but you have to put in all the primers facing up before you put the lid on it. For some reason every time I look at getting a multi-stage press I always opt out for more bullets, powder, and primers.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #47 June 2, 2009 Why not just acknowledge that you got confused about the difference between black powder and gunpowder? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,111 #48 June 2, 2009 >he too professed to support gun ownership, while speaking out against >it at every opportunity in gun threads. If you think I am "speaking out against gun ownership" you're so far to the right you can't even see the center any more. >If you have some argument as to why gunpowder is unsafe to store in >the home, then make it. Properly stored, and with the proper permits in place - it is not too dangerous to store in a populated area. In this case, there was a fire and no one was seriously injured. The system worked; police, firefighters and EMS were able to contain the damage and put out the fire. That, of course, does not equal "you can store as much propellant/explosive as you like anywhere you like, any way you like." >The fact is, the difference in burn rates between black powder and >modern gunpowder is vast. Trying to dismiss that as just a "technicality" >shows that you aren't reasonable. The fact that you think I called it a "technicality" indicates that you're not even reading the discussion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #49 June 2, 2009 QuoteA 5 gallon propane tank hooked up to your barbeque, fine. A 5,000 gallon propane tank in a residential neighborhood; that's a problem. What about 1000 gallons? Seriously, I'm curious where you'd draw the line.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #50 June 2, 2009 QuoteIt does not explode, it burns (very rapidly, but burn it does). Would you be so kind as to explain the difference for us? What, precisely, makes the chemical reaction of an explosion different from the chemical reaction of a "rapid burn?"Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
