0
quade

So . . . just how much ammo should you be allowed to store at your home?

Recommended Posts

Quote

>Shockingly, perhaps, there are actually some people posting on these
>forums who have expertise in the things they are posting about.

Even more shockingly, there are people who actually put out fires who know something about dealing with burning explosives! Hard to believe, I know . . .



FWIW, smokeless powder is not an explosive - it is a propellant. It does not explode, it burns (very rapidly, but burn it does).

The lead styphnate in primers qualifies as an explosive, but it is such a small percentage of the overall mass of ammunition that its effect is marginalized.

Having been a fireman (with a volunteer company), I can assure you that I know a hell of a lot more about the characteristics of burning ammunition from my experience as a firearms instructor and handloader than do 99% of firefighting personnel out there.

As an aside, composition C-4 burns quite nicely if ignited by flame in the open, and works great for heating C rations. The important thing to remember is to let it burn out by itself - if you try to stamp it out, it remembers that it is high explosive immediately.


BSBD,

Winsor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

FWIW, smokeless powder is not an explosive - it is a propellant. It does not explode, it burns (very rapidly, but burn it does).



It only burns rapidly when contained inside a case, and ignited by a quick primer flash.

When you pour gunpowder out on the ground and light it with a match, it burns so slow it's boring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

>Was there any damage to neighboring property caused by explosives?

Given that police evacuated nearby homes, clearly they thought there was a risk of damage or injury to neighboring property. In this case, however, I would assume that the permitting process worked as intended, and there were enough safeguards in place (physical distance, fire alarms, container material, whatever) to mitigate the risk.




Unlike the guy down the block from me that had a couple spare propane tanks in his garage...now THAT was an explosion! B|










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

FWIW, smokeless powder is not an explosive - it is a propellant. It does not explode, it burns (very rapidly, but burn it does).



It only burns rapidly when contained inside a case, and ignited by a quick primer flash.

When you pour gunpowder out on the ground and light it with a match, it burns so slow it's boring.



Hmmm, doesn't seem like it needs to be set off by a "quick primer flash" as long as it's in a container. It doesn't seem to need to be packed into the container either. As for being "so slow it's boring" . . . yeah, maybe in small amounts in a line.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-IRI1bA5jw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJp6VZeImiE

I dunno . . . looks kinda exciting to me and I'm not thinking the video lies here too much either. I think 1 kilo of it made an ok boom and that's only 1/3 (or thereabouts) of the 8 pounds you were talking about and quite a bit less than the 40 you say is allowable.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Quote

FWIW, smokeless powder is not an explosive - it is a propellant. It does not explode, it burns (very rapidly, but burn it does).



It only burns rapidly when contained inside a case, and ignited by a quick primer flash.

When you pour gunpowder out on the ground and light it with a match, it burns so slow it's boring.



Hmmm, doesn't seem like it needs to be set off by a "quick primer flash" as long as it's in a container. It doesn't seem to need to be packed into the container either. As for being "so slow it's boring" . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJp6VZeImiE

I dunno . . . looks kinda exciting to me and I'm not thinking the video lies here too much either.




Jeezuss. Learn about guns before talking about them....

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Jeezuss. Learn about guns before talking about them....



Who's talking abut guns? I believe JR was talking about gunpowder.

Do you have evidence that maybe the guys on Mythbusters were not telling the truth about how this stuff behaves?

If so, please, SHOW me.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

As much as you fukin' want.....



So you feel like you should be able to have any quantity of any substance on your property?

I'm not so sure the rest of the world agrees with you.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Jeezuss. Learn about guns before talking about them....



Who's talking abut guns? I believe JR was talking about gunpowder.

Do you have evidence that maybe the guys on Mythbusters were not telling the truth about how this stuff behaves?

If so, please, SHOW me.



Mythbusters was using Black Powder (real BP, not Pyrodex). JR was talking about Smokeless Powder. Big difference. Do a little research.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

As much as you fukin' want.....



So you feel like you should be able to have any quantity of any substance on your property?

I'm not so sure the rest of the world agrees with you.



Serious question: How many propne tanks (or total propane) do you think you should be allowed to store in your home?

Would you equate the potential fire hazard from gunpowder to propane, or are you more worried about the gunpowder, even if the hazard is the same?
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Jeezuss. Learn about guns before talking about them....



Who's talking abut guns? I believe JR was talking about gunpowder.

Do you have evidence that maybe the guys on Mythbusters were not telling the truth about how this stuff behaves?

If so, please, SHOW me.



The Mythbuster guys clearly stated that it was Blackpowder not smokeless.

Blackpowder is classed as an explosive.

Smokeless is a propellant.

For what it's worth, loaded ammunition - packed in boxes for commercial sale - ISN"T CONSIDERED AS HAZMAT by the DOT.

No shit. Look in the hazmat guide.

I pulled a load of 34,000 pounds of loaded ammo from the Federal plant in Anoka MN down to a "large retail distribution center".
I couldn't believe it at first, but after looking through my book, and a 10 minute phone call to my safety department, I rolled down the road with no placards whatsoever.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

loaded ammunition - packed in boxes for commercial sale - ISN"T CONSIDERED AS HAZMAT by the DOT.



Correct. You can have ammo delivered to your home without a hazmat fee. All it requires is an "ORM-D" sticker, indicating that it's classified as "other related material - category D". The airlines even allow loaded ammo in the cargo hold during flights, when packed in original containers.

Boxes of primers, on the other hand, do require a hazmat fee. A primer is just a fancy version of a cap, as used in a child's cap gun - when it's struck sharply, it produces a bang and a flash. They are packaged to prevent them from bumping into anything during shipping and handling, with each tiny little cup in its own separate compartment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

FWIW, smokeless powder is not an explosive - it is a propellant. It does not explode, it burns (very rapidly, but burn it does).



It only burns rapidly when contained inside a case, and ignited by a quick primer flash.

When you pour gunpowder out on the ground and light it with a match, it burns so slow it's boring.



If all you guys want to get technical, you can play the same games with ANFO. Prilled ANFO does not detonate, it deflagrates. Even confined.
Remster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I never could figure out how some of those little guys get flipped upside down without falling out of the package. Makes putting them in the auto-primer so damn time consuming.[:/]



Don't you have a primer flip tray? It's a dish that has a top and a bottom, with one side containing a bunch of grooves. You dump the primers into the grooved dish, and shake them around. The grooves cause the upside-down primers to flip right-side up. Then you put the lid on, which holds them in place, and flip the whole tray over. Remove the top (formerly the bottom), and now the primers are all oriented correctly for loading into the feed tubes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

And uranium! Try to burn uranium, and not much happens. Therefore it is safe to store in any quantity!



Have you taken over kallend's job of posting ridiculous anti-gun messages? Come to think of it, you're a lot like him - he too professed to support gun ownership, while speaking out against it at every opportunity in gun threads. He too knows that many of his arguments are ridiculous, but makes them anyway in the hopes of fooling some people. Don't ruin your reputation by stooping to kallend tactics.

If you have some argument as to why gunpowder is unsafe to store in the home, then make it. But comparing it to uranium does you no good.

The fact is, the difference in burn rates between black powder and modern gunpowder is vast. Trying to dismiss that as just a "technicality" shows that you aren't reasonable.

"All parachutes are equal!" That's the kind of stupid argument an uninformed whuffo would make. You are speaking like a gun whuffo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

. . . job of posting ridiculous anti-gun messages?



Bill's example isn't anti-gun, it's anti-you-can-have-anything-in-any-quantities-you-want-in-a-residential-section.

I think it's reasonable to restrict certain amounts of certain items because when they're gathered together in a pile, they're more dangerous than when spread out. This applies to a lot of substances.

A gallon jug of pool chlorine is "fairly" harmless, but to have a 30' shipping container full of it in your backyard would be a concern.

A 5 gallon propane tank hooked up to your barbeque, fine. A 5,000 gallon propane tank in a residential neighborhood; that's a problem.

There's a reason why people keep fireproof containers for oily rags.

There's a reason why animal control gets involved with crazy cat ladies.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

I never could figure out how some of those little guys get flipped upside down without falling out of the package. Makes putting them in the auto-primer so damn time consuming.[:/]



Don't you have a primer flip tray? It's a dish that has a top and a bottom, with one side containing a bunch of grooves. You dump the primers into the grooved dish, and shake them around. The grooves cause the upside-down primers to flip right-side up. Then you put the lid on, which holds them in place, and flip the whole tray over. Remove the top (formerly the bottom), and now the primers are all oriented correctly for loading into the feed tubes.


LOL. You're assuming my press has a feed tube. Mine is a single stage RCBS. I prime the brass with a hand held priming device I picked up at Sportsmans. It has a tray on top but you have to put in all the primers facing up before you put the lid on it. For some reason every time I look at getting a multi-stage press I always opt out for more bullets, powder, and primers.
Muff #5048

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
>he too professed to support gun ownership, while speaking out against
>it at every opportunity in gun threads.

If you think I am "speaking out against gun ownership" you're so far to the right you can't even see the center any more.

>If you have some argument as to why gunpowder is unsafe to store in
>the home, then make it.

Properly stored, and with the proper permits in place - it is not too dangerous to store in a populated area. In this case, there was a fire and no one was seriously injured. The system worked; police, firefighters and EMS were able to contain the damage and put out the fire.

That, of course, does not equal "you can store as much propellant/explosive as you like anywhere you like, any way you like."

>The fact is, the difference in burn rates between black powder and
>modern gunpowder is vast. Trying to dismiss that as just a "technicality"
>shows that you aren't reasonable.

The fact that you think I called it a "technicality" indicates that you're not even reading the discussion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

A 5 gallon propane tank hooked up to your barbeque, fine. A 5,000 gallon propane tank in a residential neighborhood; that's a problem.



What about 1000 gallons?

Seriously, I'm curious where you'd draw the line.
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

It does not explode, it burns (very rapidly, but burn it does).



Would you be so kind as to explain the difference for us? What, precisely, makes the chemical reaction of an explosion different from the chemical reaction of a "rapid burn?"
Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0