BDashe 0 #1 April 24, 2009 http://money.aol.com/article/top-20-best-ceos-of-all-time/444120 check it out! the Top 20 list. $10 says this article gets a tenth the coverage of the next white collar scandal.So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #2 April 24, 2009 Quote http://money.aol.com/article/top-20-best-ceos-of-all-time/444120 check it out! the Top 20 list. $10 says this article gets a tenth the coverage of the next white collar scandal. Top 20 in terms of return on investments is what it looks like. Not really certain that's the only way to judge someone, since a good chunk of the people listed are well known to be asshats.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BDashe 0 #3 April 24, 2009 True, but the goal of a company is to stay afloat and make money so everyone stays employed and more jobs are created... They do mention Ford was not exactly the biggest fan of our Jewish friends... but read all the blurbs. Like POTUS, you can't make everyone happy, and in order to run a tight ship you can't be everyone's best friend. You have to make decisions to keep the company profitable so people keep their jobs and the company continues to exist and/or expand, is that a bad thing? That is the job of the CEO. How would you quantify the best CEOs. Sounds like ya just can't win if you're in that seat. The company does well, you're a greedy @$$hole and a corporate monster. The company does bad, you're a dumb@$$ and should commit suicide because people lost their jobs.So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #4 April 24, 2009 Quote$10 says this article gets a tenth the coverage of the next white collar scandal. Why should it? Subjective articles are rarely considered newsworthy, especially when their subjects are historical, rather than current events. It's no coincidence that the term news contains the word new.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #5 April 24, 2009 QuoteSounds like ya just can't win if you're in that seat. The company does well, you're a greedy @$$hole and a corporate monster. The company does bad, you're a dumb@$$ and should commit suicide because people lost their jobs. I disagree. I think there can be a balance between being a greedy fuck and a company that's giving away for farm. Some of the pay disparity in some companies can ONLY be described as "greedy fuck" no matter how you slice it. When you couple that with also running other companies out of business, well, then the head of the company isn't just a greedy fuck, but is also doing a disservice to others. I think Walmart as a whole fits that category.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krip 2 #6 April 24, 2009 Quote Quote Sounds like ya just can't win if you're in that seat. The company does well, you're a greedy @$$hole and a corporate monster. The company does bad, you're a dumb@$$ and should commit suicide because people lost their jobs. I disagree. I think there can be a balance between being a greedy fuck and a company that's giving away for farm. Some of the pay disparity in some companies can ONLY be described as "greedy fuck" no matter how you slice it. When you couple that with also running other companies out of business, well, then the head of the company isn't just a greedy fuck, but is also doing a disservice to others. I think Walmart as a whole fits that category. MicrosoftOne Jump Wonder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #7 April 24, 2009 Several on the list actually.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BDashe 0 #8 April 25, 2009 QuoteSeveral on the list actually. Like i said, ya can't win.So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #9 April 25, 2009 >True, but the goal of a company is to stay afloat and make money . . . Agreed. > so everyone stays employed and more jobs are created... No, that's a common misconception. The goal of a company is to make money, period. If a company can double its profits in whatever term the investors prefer by laying off 2/3 of its workforce it will do so. To not do so would be nuts. >The company does well, you're a greedy @$$hole and a corporate >monster. ?? Most CEO's are not greedy assholes. >The company does bad, you're a dumb@$$ and should commit suicide >because people lost their jobs. Again, most CEO's in companies who fail are not dumbasses (although many of them are not good CEO's.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #10 April 25, 2009 Quote?? Most CEO's are not greedy assholes. But some certainly are. My personal "favorite" is actually Michael Eisner.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryzflies 0 #11 April 25, 2009 Quote You have to make decisions to keep the company profitable so people keep their jobs... Nonsense, the CEO doesn't answer to the employees, he (she) answers to the board that supposedly represents the stockholders. The workers are just another expense on the balance sheetIf you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BDashe 0 #12 April 25, 2009 Quote > so everyone stays employed and more jobs are created... No, that's a common misconception. The goal of a company is to make money, period. If a company can double its profits in whatever term the investors prefer by laying off 2/3 of its workforce it will do so. To not do so would be nuts. This is where you're wrong- that is in line with a private equity taking over a company about half the time, sure. But for the majority of companies, this is simply not the case, period. Sure, they'll streamline here or there in an economic downturn like right now, but a company who is doing things right would never have 67% extra staff in the first place. they'll have the right amount, maybe a few extra, otherwise they'll go under as labor and benefits is the highest cost in most companies. At the same time, most companies will not run so lean they can't keep staff motivated and will not be successful by overworking hteir employees. Again, you have your outliers but generally if a boss can keep from firing someone, they will, no one gets joy out of laying somebody off.So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #13 April 25, 2009 QuoteAgain, you have your outliers but generally if a boss can keep from firing someone, they will, no one gets joy out of laying somebody off. I'd be careful about speaking in absolutes.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #14 April 25, 2009 > but a company who is doing things right would never have 67% extra > staff in the first place. EXACTLY! The idea that companies will hire lots of extra people (and thus keep everyone employed) if they are doing well is nonsense. They will make as much money as possible with as few people as possible, for the reasons you listed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #15 April 26, 2009 QuoteQuoteAgain, you have your outliers but generally if a boss can keep from firing someone, they will, no one gets joy out of laying somebody off. I'd be careful about speaking in absolutes. so you are agreeing with him? since he was responding to a statement of absolutes, and he said "generally" ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #16 April 26, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteAgain, you have your outliers but generally if a boss can keep from firing someone, they will, no one gets joy out of laying somebody off. I'd be careful about speaking in absolutes. so you are agreeing with him? since he was responding to a statement of absolutes, and he said "generally" He also said, " . . . no one gets joy out of laying somebody off." I don't think that's entirely correct. I've known people in management that were happy to lay people off since it made their quarterlies look better and gave them bonuses. Hopefully there is a special place in hell for them.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #17 April 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteAgain, you have your outliers but generally if a boss can keep from firing someone, they will, no one gets joy out of laying somebody off. I'd be careful about speaking in absolutes. so you are agreeing with him? since he was responding to a statement of absolutes, and he said "generally" He also said, " . . . no one gets joy out of laying somebody off." I don't think that's entirely correct. I've known people in management that were happy to lay people off since it made their quarterlies look better and gave them bonuses. Hopefully there is a special place in hell for them. so you make generalizations about management based on your worst experiences... I've also seen employers happy to lay off someone. Because the employee was underperforming and this was an easy excuse to lay them off without cause (instead of direct firing) and to ensure they got some kind of severance, access to COBRA, etc for their transition - instead of 2 weeks notice and out the door. others make generalizations about management based on their best experiences.... We had layoffs two months ago. my VP got a couple illnesses from the stress of the process the weeks leading up to it - he hates laying off friends and coworkers he's been working with for decades. I've worked with and for this guy for years and he genuinely cares for his teams - this is a fortune 100 company so you'd assume he's pure evil already one manager quit beforehand because he just couldn't lay any of his employees off this time why assume this isn't the same moving up the food chain? Why assume it's not? Seems we'd really want to take it one person at a time since we're all different. etc etc for that matter, when I think of CEOs I tend to associate that with medium sized business owners that I personally know that have a staff of less than 100 people and know them all personally I suppose you think of CEOs only as the major conglomerate leaders I'd bet my category of CEOs is much more prevalent in the real world than your sampling. I'd even bet a few of the big guys are also actually humans too and hate the process as well. And what about layoffs? if the company isn't profitable, and it's too big, do you think it's better to drop 10%..20% or just wait to fail and put 100% out of work? I've been layed off before - it sucks I've had to lay off employees before - it sucks worse So how do you handle the CEO of some 'green' company that agrees with your politics, he might wear dirty t-shirts to work and act really cool and PC all the time. If he lays off people to keep his hemp placemat business running, is that ok? (ok, that was just a random jab to make you "sigh") ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #18 April 27, 2009 >I've known people in management that were happy to lay people off >since it made their quarterlies look better and gave them bonuses. I have honestly never met anyone who was "happy to lay people off." However, I know a lot of people who have had to lay employees off for the good of the company. Indeed, they often get the bigger bonuses because they are willing to make the hard decisions. The purpose of a company is to make money, not to provide jobs. They are a side effect of a company's need to get certain tasks completed, not their raison d'etre. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #19 April 27, 2009 QuoteI have honestly never met anyone who was "happy to lay people off." You then are fortunate. I've heard people in management actually brag about it.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
