Baiting in Iraq

[riddler 0]

This news story is about 18 months old, but interesting tactics nonetheless:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/iraq/2003900614_iraqbait25.html

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A Pentagon group has encouraged some U.S. military snipers in Iraq to target suspected insurgents who pick up scattered pieces of "bait," such as detonation cords, plastic explosives and ammunition, a tactic that allegedly led to the killings of Iraqis, according to military court documents.

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Spec. Jorge Sandoval and Staff Sgt. Michael Hensley are accused by the military of placing a spool of wire into the pocket of an Iraqi man Sandoval had shot on April 27 on Hensley's order. The man had been cutting grass with a rusty sickle when he was shot, according to court documents.

Hensley and Sandoval have been charged with murder and with planting evidence.

And a link to a video, for those of you that have access to YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgNInWQI-qU&feature=rfw-rec-r2

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[steve1 5]

Can you imagine what kids would do if they saw something laying on the ground. They'd pick it up and then get wasted by a sniper.

I have a ton of respect for our service men. Most kill to defend themselves and their buddies. But there are always a few psycho-paths out there who never should have been allowed to enter the military. Most sniper schools are on the lookout for men like this, and try to weed them out.

I've also known some soldiers who have trained for years in the art of killing. Some of them can't wait to try out their new found skills....

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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I've also known some soldiers who have trained for years in the art of killing. Some of them can't wait to try out their new found skills....

This is a permanent problem with all military. We want to train a group of vicious, deadly protectors who will kill without question upon orders, but who really don't want to, who fit in comfortably with civilian society when not doing so. We almost never succeed.
This is also true for those who draw up military contingency plans and procure new weapons systems.

[steve1 5]

This is a bit off topic, but it ties into this subject.

I read a book recently on the psychological aspects of killing in the military and police work. It's called "On Killing". It's written by a former Airborne Ranger who later became a psychologist. It's required reading in some police academies.

It goes on to say that killing another person is not a natural act. Many soldiers just can't bring themselves to kill, even if their life is threatened in combat. In fact the vast majority of soldiers hate to kill in battle.

In W.W.II almost half of the soldiers could not even fire their weapons. If they did fire they often fired away from their intended target. I know this is contrary to what we see on TV.

In the Revolutionary War, Soldiers would line up at point blank range from each other and start firing their weapons. Hundreds of rounds were fired, but very few were killed or wounded. It wasn't because their weapons were ineffective. It was that these soldiers just couldn't bring themselves to kill the enemy.

Most humans have been conditioned not to kill each other, and to respect their fellow man.

But through more realistic training, that has changed considerably. In Vietnam the firing rates and killing statistics rose sharply. Better quality training was the key. Soldiers were better conditioned to shoot and kill the enemy. If I recall correctly, the firing rate rose to about 95% in Vietnam.

With the advent of video type realism in training, the ability of our soldiers to kill the enemy has never been higher. Todays soldier may indeed be a trained killer ready to do his job.

The book goes on to say that violent video games may be having a greater affect on our young people, than we ever imagined. Is this creating an entire generation of killers? After playing some of these games a young person's heart rate and breathing will be sped up for long periods after. They may even have problems sleeping. These games are that real. Some are very similiar to what police use in their training to kill.

The author also states that violent movies, and violent scenes in our media are also having conditioning response on all of us. Particularly our kids.

What are kids watching for hours a day on TV while parents are working? What video games are they playing for hours a day?

I think we are all being dessensitized to violence and killing....

[TomAiello 26]

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I've also known some soldiers who have trained for years in the art of killing. Some of them can't wait to try out their new found skills....

One of my friends, who was a marine captain, summarized it like this:

"It's not that I want to go to war. But imagine if you spent your whole life training to drive race cars, and the Indy 500 was going on, but you weren't there."

He actually left the marines (he was in a counter-terrorism unit that wasn't deployed to the middle east because it was considered vital to national security that it stay in the USA) and joined the FBI several years ago. When the marines started calling up reserves, he volunteered to go back on active duty and serve a tour in the middle east--but the FBI decided that keeping it's trained counter-terrorism staff was vital to national security, and refused to release him to the marine corp.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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It goes on to say that killing another person is not a natural act. Many soldiers just can't bring themselves to kill, even if their life is threatened in combat. In fact the vast majority of soldiers hate to kill in battle.

In W.W.II almost half of the soldiers could not even fire their weapons. If they did fire they often fired away from their intended target. I know this is contrary to what we see on TV.

In the Revolutionary War, Soldiers would line up at point blank range from each other and start firing their weapons. Hundreds of rounds were fired, but very few were killed or wounded. It wasn't because their weapons were ineffective. It was that these soldiers just couldn't bring themselves to kill the enemy.

Most humans have been conditioned not to kill each other, and to respect their fellow man.

But through more realistic training, that has changed considerably. In Vietnam the firing rates and killing statistics rose sharply. Better quality training was the key. Soldiers were better conditioned to shoot and kill the enemy. If I recall correctly, the firing rate rose to about 95% in Vietnam.

I am sure that training played a big part in this. But, I also wonder if their was something else playing.

In both the earlier examples of the revolutionary war and WW II, people were fighting against people that looked exactly like them. They could have been friends, brothers, family. This would create much more of an emotional attachment, and would much more prevent the villification of the enemy.

When you look at more recent wars, this is not the case. Vietnam, and later Iraq and Afghanistan provided an enemy that looked significantly different.

[steve1 5]

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[
When you look at more recent wars, this is not the case. Vietnam, and later Iraq and Afghanistan provided an enemy that looked significantly different.

That is a good point. That could be a factor in some of this. It would be easier to pull the trigger on someone who looks far different than yourself.

I don't know though. Most Iraqis look a lot like our own troops. I don't think they look far different.

Many soldiers will give a name like crout, gook, rag head, etc. to the enemy. This might make it easier to kill them....

[riddler 0]

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But there are always a few psycho-paths out there who never should have been allowed to enter the military.

I guess what bothers me about the story is the upper-eschelon ranks of the military/cia that not only condoned the behaviour, but apparently told the soldiers to do it. I have no military training, but it seems that the officers and top brass have to be the ones to set the tone of the conflict, as well as the ideals. In this case, if the story is true, it's a very pathetic way to orchestrate an occupation. I could see myself walking along a road, picking up some wire I saw - just because I was interested in what it is. I think children would be even more curious.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD