billvon 3,116 #126 April 28, 2009 >Charging them extra may just cause serious problems with their >employers who are picking up the tab. Or it might cause companies to choose less-large people to send on such trips. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #127 April 28, 2009 >I am always curious why so many men want to date a "woman" who >more closely resembles a young boy. Perhaps some men are more interested in the contents than the package. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #128 April 28, 2009 Quote >I am always curious why so many men want to date a "woman" who >more closely resembles a young boy. Perhaps some men are more interested in the contents than the package. Anthropological studies show Amazon's comment is wrong - men tend to be physically attracted to women with a certain proportionality of waist to hips (amongst other features) - the ratio stays the same over time, but the baseline moves. Likely has to relate to unconscious bias towards perceived: fertility (nubile/young is always common) status (what indicates success in life) other stuff (face shape, etc) back in the really poor times, the plumper women were considered desirable and the more athletic types and skinny types less so - likely the plumpness was associated with wealth and prosperity in the 60's (?) the really skinny ones were popular - I don't know, wasted out drug abusers was popular? or people too busy/active to bother eating indicates prosperity? today we see more and more of the athletic types are popular - maybe being able to afford a gym membership or trainer is a sign of prosperity.....??? thus leaving the rest to be brown nosed by the PC and/or the desparate and less desirable males.....but that waist to hip ratio still followed through mostly (Marilyn Monroe, Twiggy, etc) there's similar analogies for men, of course ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #129 April 28, 2009 QuoteI am always curious why so many men want to date a "woman" who more closely resembles a young boy. Most models certainly do not have the body, breasts and hips that most societies deem as the qualities of a woman. What? Seems to me that the models that are ultra skinny are the ones doing women's fashion/runway type stuff. The audience for that type of model is women! The female models for the male audience most definitely do not resemble a young boy - not at all.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #130 April 28, 2009 Glad to hear your story Marg. ThanksWhen an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #131 April 28, 2009 Quote>Charging them extra may just cause serious problems with their >employers who are picking up the tab. Or it might cause companies to choose less-large people to send on such trips. It's often working instead of working out that got that company its large people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #132 April 29, 2009 Quote>Charging them extra may just cause serious problems with their >employers who are picking up the tab. Or it might cause companies to choose less-large people to send on such trips. Are you saying that this may cause companies to discriminate against large people? What if the comany's best sales person is obese? _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #133 April 29, 2009 >What if the comany's best sales person is obese? Then they might decide that his extra talent is worth the extra cost. It benefits him in that case; he gets extra room so he fits more comfortably and is more rested when he starts selling! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #134 April 29, 2009 True! Correct me if I'm wrong. Did you suggest that it was OK for a company to discriminate against large people due to the extra cost of sending them on a business trip? _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #135 April 29, 2009 >Did you suggest that it was OK for a company to discriminate against >large people due to the extra cost of sending them on a business trip? ?? Not at all. They can choose to send whoever they like. Of course, factors like their sales talent, the cost involved in sending them, the time away from the home office and their desire (or lack thereof) for travel may well play into the decision on who to send. (You're not suggesting that companies should discriminate against poor salesmen, are you?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #136 April 29, 2009 I didn't think that's what you meant. I think I just didn't comprehend your point. As for poor salesmen: Their job security should be based on their performance. If they cannot make their goals then they run the risk of being reassigned or let go. That has nothing to do with discrimination. _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #137 April 29, 2009 QuoteQuoteI am always curious why so many men want to date a "woman" who more closely resembles a young boy. Most models certainly do not have the body, breasts and hips that most societies deem as the qualities of a woman. What? Seems to me that the models that are ultra skinny are the ones doing women's fashion/runway type stuff. The audience for that type of model is women! The female models for the male audience most definitely do not resemble a young boy - not at all. +1 -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #138 April 29, 2009 Quote Quote Quote I am always curious why so many men want to date a "woman" who more closely resembles a young boy. Most models certainly do not have the body, breasts and hips that most societies deem as the qualities of a woman. What? Seems to me that the models that are ultra skinny are the ones doing women's fashion/runway type stuff. The audience for that type of model is women! The female models for the male audience most definitely do not resemble a young boy - not at all. +1 Gee you guys certainly don't pay attention to most of the models and actresses out thereAll you need to look at is the responses to the "Who do you think is Hot" threads in the Bonfire... The responses... are instructive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #139 April 29, 2009 So you are saying women like Jessica Alba, Jessica Biel, Halle Berry, etc are shaped like boys? (sorry for the spellings) What is your idea of how a 'real' woman is shaped? Rosanne Barr? John Goodman? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gmanpilot 0 #140 April 29, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote I am always curious why so many men want to date a "woman" who more closely resembles a young boy. Most models certainly do not have the body, breasts and hips that most societies deem as the qualities of a woman. What? Seems to me that the models that are ultra skinny are the ones doing women's fashion/runway type stuff. The audience for that type of model is women! The female models for the male audience most definitely do not resemble a young boy - not at all. +1 Gee you guys certainly don't pay attention to most of the models and actresses out thereAll you need to look at is the responses to the "Who do you think is Hot" threads in the Bonfire... The responses... are instructive. I'm not sure if I understand your point or not, but if your contention is that men prefer a boyish, runway body like Kate Moss to a womanish, swimsuit body like Heidi Klum, you cannot be more mistaken. I don't know of a single dude who would prefer the former to the latter. Seriously, not one._________________________________________ -There's always free cheese in a mouse trap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #141 April 29, 2009 QuoteKate Moss to a womanish, swimsuit body like Heidi Klum, you cannot be more mistaken. I don't know of a single dude who would prefer the former to the latter. Seriously, not one. nonsense, In Amazon world, Heidi Klum has an anorexic boy body - Beatrice Arthur - now that's what she wants us to call a WOMAN ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #142 April 29, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Seems to me that the models that are ultra skinny are the ones doing women's fashion/runway type stuff. The audience for that type of model is women! The female models for the male audience most definitely do not resemble a young boy - not at all. +1 I'm not sure if I understand your point or not, but if your contention is that men prefer a boyish, runway body like Kate Moss to a womanish, swimsuit body like Heidi Klum, you cannot be more mistaken. I don't know of a single dude who would prefer the former to the latter. Seriously, not one. nonsense, In Amazon world, Heidi Klum has an anorexic boy body - Beatrice Arthur - now that's what she wants us to call a WOMAN Guys … I understand what you’re trying to say. Heidi Klum, however, may not be the best model (case) to put forward. Depends on when you’re talking about her. At the height of her swim suit model days, like when she’s in Sports Illustrated Swimsuit edition, arguably more for men than women, her BMI was 17.6 (5'9", 119 lbs). That puts her in the category of “underweight” and 0.1 units from “anorexic.” A BMI of below 18 is associated with significant functional consequences. By comparison, Kate Moss (5'7", 105 lbs.) had a BMI of 16.4, and Adriana Lima (5'10", 112 lbs.) has BMI of 16.1. More recently, some estimates put Klum’s weight closer to 140 lbs, i.e., after multiple children and transitioning from modeling to television host. That corresponds to a BMI of 20.7. That’s healthy. The healthy weight range for a 5’9” woman extends to 169 lbs (per BMI). Reading what some folks on dz.com comment, a 5’9” women of 169lbs would likely be called obese. To be consdiered "obese" by BMI, a 5'9" woman would have to weigh more than 203 lbs. Tried to find a weight for Bea Arthur (5'9" or 5'10", seems to vary depending on source.) to do a BMI calculation. Couldn't. Throughout most of career, it does not seem to be reasonable to call her "obese" or really, even "overweight." BMI’s are hardly a perfect measure and is particularly problematic measure especially for athletic, muscular folks. /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gmanpilot 0 #143 April 29, 2009 Quote QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Seems to me that the models that are ultra skinny are the ones doing women's fashion/runway type stuff. The audience for that type of model is women! The female models for the male audience most definitely do not resemble a young boy - not at all. +1 I'm not sure if I understand your point or not, but if your contention is that men prefer a boyish, runway body like Kate Moss to a womanish, swimsuit body like Heidi Klum, you cannot be more mistaken. I don't know of a single dude who would prefer the former to the latter. Seriously, not one. nonsense, In Amazon world, Heidi Klum has an anorexic boy body - Beatrice Arthur - now that's what she wants us to call a WOMAN Guys … I understand what you’re trying to say. Heidi Klum, however, may not be the best model (case) to put forward. /Marg Sure it is, especially to debunk a misplaced contention that men prefer women who look like young boys. All I know is she looks pretty good to most of us guys. In fact, I recon just about everybody would consider any swimsuit/victoria's secret model more attractive than a Kate Moss type. ymmv_________________________________________ -There's always free cheese in a mouse trap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #144 April 29, 2009 Quote All you need to look at is the responses to the "Who do you think is Hot" threads in the Bonfire... The responses... are instructive. "The cock wants what the cock wants." (Scientific explanation brought to you by Doug from Weeds. ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #145 April 29, 2009 QuoteIt sounds like you have been skinny all your life. What do you really know about weight loss, or the problem of obesity? It may be a choice to remain at a certain weight, for most people. For many it isn't as simple as that. It is like telling an alcoholic or drug addict that the solution is simple....just quit using or drinking. What could be simpler than that. I strongly disagree. I've always been fit (not skinny). You don't have to be obese to know about obesity any more than you have to be insane to know about mental health. I used to eat like a horse. But seeing as I engaged in significant physical activity almost every day, it was never a problem - more like a requirement. With age however, I have slowed down. I actually went over 200 pounds about 3 years ago. Know what I did? Started eating less. The gall of me to take charge in plain sight of a world of victims heh? Had my annual physical a couple weeks ago. My bad cholesterol has crept out of the ideal range for the first time ever. Guess what I'm going to do? Hint: It starts with "Make some" and ends with "dietary changes." The victim mentality that equates accomplishing something that is not easy (or is not truly desired) with the words "can not" instead of "will not" has pretty much become the norm. The percentage of people who truly can not lose weight is very very small. Or perhaps you think there is some change to the human genome that has caused the epidemic of obesity? I think it is pretty clearly a behavioral issue; one of beliefs and desires. I will give you that it is similar to addiction in that it is all in the mind - the brain wants to eat even though there isn't a physical need - but awareness is still there, and choosing to do what you know is unhealthy because the short term pleasure has been chosen over long-term health does not absolve people of choice or the responsibility of the consequences. I believe it is fairly simple. For some the "pain" of denying pleasure thru overeating is more overwhelming than the pain of being obese. For others the consequences of being obese override the joy of "pleasure consumption."" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,588 #146 April 29, 2009 QuoteIt may be a choice to remain at a certain weight, for most people. For many it isn't as simple as that. It is like telling an alcoholic or drug addict that the solution is simple....just quit using or drinking. What could be simpler than that.QuoteI strongly disagree. I've always been fit (not skinny). You don't have to be obese to know about obesity any more than you have to be insane to know about mental health.Everyone has their problems. It's easy to be happy, just don't be sad. But it doesn't work that way for some people, just as a simple statement of "don't eat so much" or "don't drink so much" is much harder for some people to follow than others. Try asking someone who's mentally retarded to just try a little harder to read. Their makeup is different. No, I don't think that everyone's makeup is different now from what it was 50-80 years ago. But I do think that our American lifestyle, with its dependence on cars and machines, and the status that derives from them as well, makes obesity a likely problem. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #147 April 29, 2009 I found this article..interesting... It even has pictures for the guys claiming that which is not in evidence. http://www.diet-blog.com/archives/2007/04/15/female_body_shape_in_the_20th_century.php Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #148 April 29, 2009 Quote Or perhaps not - I haven't been able to get a straight answer on the utility of BMI for athletes. That is, is there still a health consequence from carrying extra muscle? We do know that lower calories lifestyles are associated with a longer, if less pleasant lifespan. By lower, I mean say 1500 cal/day instead of 2500. This is a much less active lifestyle. As for the use of ketchup on pork - the versatility of tomatoes is unquestionable and healthy. I've never read anything that supports any claim that being muscular and having low body fat can be detrimerntal to a person's health. Being that way does put a person far enough outside the normal ranges that the standard formulas do not apply, but they can in no way be said to be unhealthy. (Different story of course if they got that way using steroids). I've seen a few psuedo-scientific or naysayer (those envious of fit people) claims about negative consequences to being fit. Never seen a single serious study that backs them up. Interesting you mention pleasant. I think it really does boil down to that. As I mentioned in another post, it is a matter of eating pleasure overriding the joy of being fit. Heck, maybe the other end of the spectrum is that there are people who actually get no happiness from being fit, so there is no point denying the pleasure of eating shitloads of food. As for the ketchup; if your tomatoes taste like ketchup - you need to change grocers.BTW - If you truly fall into the category of athlete, I wouldn't give BMI a second thought. No reason to even measure it." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #149 April 29, 2009 QuoteI found this article..interesting... It even has pictures for the guys claiming that which is not in evidence. http://www.diet-blog.com/archives/2007/04/15/female_body_shape_in_the_20th_century.php I could use some cheese to go with all this whine. Do you have a point or are you just attempting to hate on men again?"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #150 April 29, 2009 QuoteEveryone has their problems. It's easy to be happy, just don't be sad. But it doesn't work that way for some people, just as a simple statement of "don't eat so much" or "don't drink so much" is much harder for some people to follow than others. Try asking someone who's mentally retarded to just try a little harder to read. Their makeup is different. No, I don't think that everyone's makeup is different now from what it was 50-80 years ago. But I do think that our American lifestyle, with its dependence on cars and machines, and the status that derives from them as well, makes obesity a likely problem. Wendy P. I completely acknowledge and empathize with the difficulty of some tasks - but stop short of accepting them as not possible. Too many people have pulled it off for it to not be about fortitude and attitude. As for the mentally retarded; not sure where I'd draw the exact line, but somewhere around the point where awareness fades also goes the responsibility for behavior. I am a hard core Responsibilitist, but make big concessions to the very young and the mentally infirm. So that would be my take on the cushy lifestyle afforded by modern technology. Unless a person is ignorant or unaware of the effect, then it simply becomes another thing you take into account when acting out your life. Yes, everybody has the nuerosis. I think we should start a WHAT'S MY NUEROSIS? thread." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
