Obesity

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Ketchup contains loads of added sugars. In fact, Ketchup's only contribution is extra sugar, and some marginal amount of Vit C.

Don't forget the lycopene. My ketchup bottle says that lycopene is really good for me, and that ketchup contains a lot of it, so that must be true!

[PLFXpert 0]

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The BS Dr. Phil attitude that our country has adopted, trying to force everyone to "accept people for who they are" has created a hostile attitude towards people that try to encourage others to improve themselves while facilitating lifestyles that are not only unhealthy and dangerous but a detriment to our society as a whole.

Obesity isn't just something that must be dealt with by those who are overweight, it affects all of us

Your issue, as I see it, is being fat "in public". We have all these restrictions on smoking and drinking "in public"--among other things. But, one can not avoid seeing a fat person in public and it would be tough to avoid seeing one eating something .

For me, it is all relative. I do not care if you smoke so much as long as I do not have to walk beside you. I do not care if you drink, so long as you do not drive and such. And I do not mind-so-much if you are obese so long as I do not have to sit next to you on an airplane. I am just saying. Airplanes make me prejudice.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

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Airplanes make me prejudice.

I think that planes are a problem for anyone who is of above-average size. Hell, I'm a small person, and I find the coach seats to be uncomfortably small. I sat next to a really tall guy once (not overweight), and there was just no way he could sit in his seat without spilling over into my space a little bit. I'm sure it wasn't any more comfortable for him than it was for me.

I'm not sure what could be done about that problem though. It doesn't seem fair for the airlines to force bigger people to pay for two seats or anything like that.

But if I'm annoyed by sitting next to a large person, it's the airline I'm annoyed at for not figuring out a better solution to this common problem; I'm not annoyed at the other person for being bigger than me. (Unless they're being rude and not even trying to stay out of my space, but that applies to people of any size.)

[billvon 3,116]

>It doesn't seem fair for the airlines to force bigger people to pay for two
>seats or anything like that.

Actually it seems pretty fair to me. Charge by the pound, and use the extra money to pay for the middle seat - and put the widest people on either side of the empty seat.

[kelpdiver 2]

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>It doesn't seem fair for the airlines to force bigger people to pay for two
>seats or anything like that.

Actually it seems pretty fair to me. Charge by the pound, and use the extra money to pay for the middle seat - and put the widest people on either side of the empty seat.

Charging by the pound may have some fairness, but it's not a good business plan. Nothing could make the experience of a narrow seat with insufficient knee space enough better then to add a couple hundred angry, dangerously dehydrated (and bulk rehydrated) people on board.

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>It doesn't seem fair for the airlines to force bigger people to pay for two
>seats or anything like that.

Actually it seems pretty fair to me. Charge by the pound, and use the extra money to pay for the middle seat - and put the widest people on either side of the empty seat.

I just don't see that working very well.

And actually, I guess the airlines already have somewhat of a solution - first class. For those who can afford it, the seats are bigger and more comfortable. For those who can't afford it, we get to sit in cattle class and deal with the discomfort (or choose to not fly).

[kelpdiver 2]

OTOH, people too large to fit and use a seatbelt cannot be seated in the emergency aisle.

[billvon 3,116]

> Nothing could make the experience of a narrow seat with insufficient
>knee space enough better then to add a couple hundred angry,
>dangerously dehydrated (and bulk rehydrated) people on board.

It could be worse. You could be in the seat between two overweight, dangerously dehydrated (and rehydrated) people. I think at least one company (United) is already doing this, although their program is a little different - they charge for an entire extra seat for someone who's obese. (i.e. if their seatbelt doesn't fit or if they overhang the armrest.)

To me, that's worse. That will lead to:

-fights at the gate, where a gate agent says a passenger is obese and they say they are not

-fights on the plane, where passengers claim they are not overhanging the seat (and contort themselves to "prove" it)

-bad feelings on the plane, where passengers either have to "rat" on their seatmate or live with adipose intrusion

Having someone next to you who hates your guts (and who weighs 320 lbs) for five hours is going to be worse than sitting next to someone who used to be thirsty.

An easier solution is just to weigh everything - passenger plus luggage. If you are morbidly obese but don't want to pay, travel light. You'll get two seats and the airline will not have to pay more for the fuel to haul you around. If you're light and you want to take more luggage, then you are also good. (And if your weight embarrasses you, you can always claim "well, it's a small bag but it weighs a ton" if asked about the total.)

But if you're obese and you want to take tons of luggage, then you will pay for the fuel needed to move all that weight.

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But if you're obese and you want to take tons of luggage, then you will pay for the fuel needed to move all that weight.

Not everyone who is too big for the coach seats is morbidly obese or even overweight. There are people who weigh 200 pounds who are not overweight. It doesn't seem fair to me that they should pay almost twice as much as me to fly just because they were born a different size.

[billvon 3,116]

>It doesn't seem fair to me that they should pay almost twice as much as
>me to fly just because they were born a different size.

Is it fair that very heavy tandem students have to pay more? Is it fair that heavy pilots cannot take heavy passengers in Cessna 152's/172's? I think it's more physics than anything else.

[kelpdiver 2]

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-fights on the plane, where passengers claim they are not overhanging the seat (and contort themselves to "prove" it)

We can see how good their breathholding skills are.

[billvon 3,116]

>We can see how good their breathholding skills are.

"Stewardess! Stewardess! He breathed out; I saw him!"
"Did not."
"Did too!"

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>It doesn't seem fair to me that they should pay almost twice as much as
>me to fly just because they were born a different size.

Is it fair that very heavy tandem students have to pay more? Is it fair that heavy pilots cannot take heavy passengers in Cessna 152's/172's? I think it's more physics than anything else.

I think that commercial airlines are a little bit different than skydiving or flying small planes. (Somewhat more "necessary" at times.) But yeah, at some point - such as when it becomes a hazard (like not being able to fasten one's seatbelt), there probably should be a size limit on planes whether it is "fair" or not.

As for charging by the pound, I think that maybe a weight _range_ seating/pricing thing might work better. But I'm really not sure . . .

I guess it might annoy a bigger person that they would have to pay more, but it would also mean that they would likely have a more comfortable flight.

[kelpdiver 2]

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But if you're obese and you want to take tons of luggage, then you will pay for the fuel needed to move all that weight.

Not everyone who is too big for the coach seats is morbidly obese or even overweight. There are people who weigh 200 pounds who are not overweight. It doesn't seem fair to me that they should pay almost twice as much as me to fly just because they were born a different size.

Just ignoring the business issues of pissing off your customers, or the effort required to even implement such a plan...

It's not terribly unfair to bill by the pound. The extra weight of a 6 footer like me is weight that can't be used to stick cargo in storage. Or it's more fuel burned.

But in a 'fair' system, it wouldn't be double the weight. A full 524 passenger load might translate to 120,000lbs (230/passenger), but max takeoff weight is 910,000. Empty weight is 407,000. So most of the cost of transporting people is the fixed cost of the seat itself. not the weight of the person. I don't think you could justify even a 50% charge for double the net weight.

Outside of the US, you do see a lot of airlines that increase the luggage allowance with the upper tiers. The cheapest fares allow a single 10kg bag. Clearly the US airlines have been going this route, with first the reduction to one piece, and now none without paying $25/bag.

If they tried to do tiers of weight (< 150, < 200, < 250, > 250), they'll probably get some lawsuits, from the obese and from the tall. The latter group might manage a victory on discrimination, the former might have a harder time of it.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I guess it might annoy a bigger person that they would have to pay more, but it would also mean that they would likely have a more comfortable flight.

On what do you base that optimism?

Now that people are paying $25/bag/way, is baggage handing any better than it used to be?

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I guess it might annoy a bigger person that they would have to pay more, but it would also mean that they would likely have a more comfortable flight.

On what do you base that optimism?

Now that people are paying $25/bag/way, is baggage handing any better than it used to be?

I meant that if you are in a certain weight range, you get a certain size seat. So the larger person would likely have a more comfortable flight by having more room than they otherwise would in a smaller seat.

But again, I really don't know if that would work. Weighing people and having different-sized seating in the planes might be a bigger problem than the problem it's meant to solve.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I guess it might annoy a bigger person that they would have to pay more, but it would also mean that they would likely have a more comfortable flight.

On what do you base that optimism?

Now that people are paying $25/bag/way, is baggage handing any better than it used to be?

I meant that if you are in a certain weight range, you get a certain size seat. So the larger person would likely have a more comfortable flight by having more room than they otherwise would in a smaller seat.

But again, I really don't know if that would work. Weighing people and having different-sized seating in the planes might be a bigger problem than the problem it's meant to solve.

My expectation is we get the same seats as before, but the really big people pay for two. Them aside, we're all just as uncomfortable, but the big guys will pay more, and the 5'ers might pay slightly less. (<10% difference).

[lewmonst 0]

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Is it fair that very heavy tandem students have to pay more?

Not so in Perris anymore...

http://www.exitshot.com

[Muenkel 0]

Bill,

I can see your point of view. One thing though that no one has touched on are the large people who are travelling on business. Charging them extra may just cause serious problems with their employers who are picking up the tab.

_________________________________________
Chris

[nerdgirl 0]

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I thought about this thread this morning on my early morning flight to London. I was sitting in the aisle seat on the emergency row when a morbidly obease American lady came and sat down in the middle seat next to me. She couldn't fit properly in the seat



Still, its a piss poor situation when the Flight attendents don't ask people who are that obese to move out of the emergency exit due to the fact that they might be offended.

Single data point: On a domestic Delta flight, I’ve observed the flight attendant re-seat a guy who needed a seat-belt extender.

I gave him my aisle seat and took the middle seat so that he could have more room … it was only a short flight from ATL to Washington National. When he asked for the seat extender, the flight attendant told him he would have to move out of the exit row for safety reasons. He had a fit. Not sure if that was FAA policy, Delta policy, or just the inclination of that flight attendant – I’d guess one of the latter two.

Ended up sitting next to a prof from Georgetown who offered to take me out to dinner … couldn’t take him up on the offer as I already had plans. (I also didn’t try to reclaim my originally assigned aisle seat, either.
/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[rehmwa 2]

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>nd put the widest people on either side of the empty seat.

they would be very wide to do that

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Remster 30]

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Ketchup contains loads of added sugars. In fact, Ketchup's only contribution is extra sugar, and some marginal amount of Vit C.

Don't forget the lycopene. My ketchup bottle says that lycopene is really good for me, and that ketchup contains a lot of it, so that must be true!

I always knew you had balls. Didn't realize you also had some of the interior plumbing!

Remster

[steve1 5]

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Ketchup contains loads of added sugars. In fact, Ketchup's only contribution is extra sugar, and some marginal amount of Vit C.

Don't forget the lycopene. My ketchup bottle says that lycopene is really good for me, and that ketchup contains a lot of it, so that must be true!

I always knew you had balls. Didn't realize you also had some of the interior plumbing!

Hey, I don't think the ketchup bottle says anything about prostate cancer. It just says "lycopene good - eat lots of it." And you don't question the ketchup bottle, man.

[Amazon 7]

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Aren't a lot of models unhealthy though. Being anorexic is not being fit. It's something that can kill you.

I am always curious why so many men want to date a "woman" who more closely resembles a young boy.

Most models certainly do not have the body, breasts and hips that most societies deem as the qualities of a woman.