Another Tick on the "You were told" list

[rushmc 23]

Linked from NewsMax, report by AP

http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_secrets/2009/04/19/204634.html

Obama Breaks Promise on Government Secrecy

Sunday, April 19, 2009 10:10 AM

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WASHINGTON -- Despite a pledge to open government, the Obama administration has endorsed a Bush-era decision to keep secret key details of an FBI computer database that allows agents and analysts to search a billion documents with a wealth of personal information about Americans and foreigners.

President Barack Obama's Justice Department quietly told a federal court in Washington last week that it would not second-guess the previous administration's decisions to withhold some information about the bureau's Investigative Data Warehouse.


The Electronic Frontier Foundation, a digital rights advocacy group, had sued under the Freedom of Information Act to get records showing how the FBI protects the privacy of Americans whose personal information winds up in the vast database.


As a result, there is no public list of all the databases the FBI sucks into this computer warehouse; no information on how individuals can correct errors about them in this FBI database; and no public access to assessments the bureau did of the warehouse's impact on Americans' privacy.


"In light of all the fanfare at the highest levels of the administration about a new transparency policy, it's remarkable that not one word of additional material has been released as a result of that new policy," said David Sobel, the foundation's lawyer in the case.


The administration's handling of the decision fit a pattern that emerged this month: Highly visible announcements when Obama breaks with Bush policy in order to open hidden government files, but an almost stealthy rollout of decisions when Obama endorses secrecy.


"There has been a lack of consistency on the part of the administration when it comes to secrecy issues," said James Dempsey, vice president for public policy at the Center for Democracy and Technology, an open government advocate. "They do seem to be torn between two conflicting tendencies: One is openness and other is a control-the-news tendency. But it's still early in the administration, so I cut them some slack for not having this fully thought out yet."


Justice Department spokeswoman Tracy Schmaler offered a different explanation: "Some withholdings are necessary in order to protect privacy, national security and other interests."


There's no lack of openness when Obama changes Bush policies.


On his first day in office, Obama reversed a policy on releasing government documents so there is a "presumption in favor of disclosure." Attorney General Eric Holder promptly beat Obama's deadline by two months for issuing new guidelines that urged release unless "foreseeable harm" would result.


With a flourish, the Justice Department has opened two batches of secret legal opinions crafted to support Bush's anti-terrorism polices. Just Thursday, four Bush-era legal opinions that relaxed restrictions against torture of prisoners were made public, accompanied by a department news release and a statement from Obama.


In contrast, the decision to endorse Bush's withholding of records about the FBI's data warehouse was filed in federal court last Monday with no other public word from the current administration.


On April 3, the Obama administration issued no presidential statement or general Justice Department news release when it told a federal court in San Francisco that a lawsuit by AT&T customers to stop domestic wiretapping by the National Security Agency must be halted to avoid disclosing state secrets.


Instead, a court brief containing the decision was filed electronically with the San Francisco court at 8 p.m. EDT Friday.


Schmaler said the department had a statement prepared in case anyone called to ask about the filing. But in the NSA case, and the FBI case, the department did not follow the Bush administration practice of e-mailing reporters a copy of government briefs in newsworthy cases as soon as they are filed with a court.


During the presidential campaign, Obama said Bush invoked the state secrets privilege too often, and Holder has ordered a review of those cases. But Obama has since reasserted it in two cases where Bush earlier claimed it to prevent disclosure of his anti-terror tactics.


The NSA wiretapping case, filed shortly before Bush left office, was the first time Obama asserted the privilege on his own to try to kill a suit.


Last Monday's decision not to release additional documents about the FBI data warehouse was the first one about a pending case since Holder issued the new freedom of information standard and said Bush-era decisions involved in pending suits could be revisited.


U.S. District Judge Reggie Walton had given the government 60 days to decide whether the new guidelines might alter its position. The government's response declining to disclose more data did not say whether the Justice Department used the time to re-evaluate the Bush-era decisions.


Comparing the Obama decisions, attorney Sobel said, "The `torture' memos affected a handful of people while this database potentially affects millions of American citizens. The average American was not likely to be tortured at the Guantanamo Bay prison, but they are likely to have information about them in this massive database which remains a black hole. We don't even know what material they're collecting."


Begun in 2004, the data warehouse contains at least 53 databases that are refreshed regularly. Nearly three-quarters of the data comes from outside the FBI. Some 13,500 FBI agents, 2,000 FBI analysts and selected other federal, state and local law enforcement officers on joint task forces with the FBI can access the material, which includes unclassified documents and data classified confidential or secret, but not top secret.


The heavily censored documents already released show the warehouse contains the FBI's electronic case files; its lists of people and groups "associated with" violent gangs and terrorist organizations; criminal histories from the National Crime Information Center; messages between the FBI and other agencies; newspaper stories from around the world; data about lost, stolen or fraudulent passports; CIA intelligence reports; suspicious banking activity reports; and lists of people barred from aircraft or subject to extra searches before flying.


But the names of more than half the data sets in the warehouse are blacked out.


In the Justice Department's brief, FBI freedom of information chief David Hardy said that "knowledge of the data sources ... would enable individuals involved in criminal or terrorist activities to adapt their activities and methods to avoid detection." New department guidance for deletions like this cautions agencies to "ensure that they are not withholding based on speculative or abstract fears."


The released documents also show the FBI assessed the data warehouse's impact on the privacy of Americans, but won't make those assessments public because it believes federal law doesn't require that.


The new Justice guidance, however, says agencies "should not withhold information simply because (they) may do so legally." It urges release of information that can be made public without "foreseeable harm."

© 2009 Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[marks2065 0]

I guess it is only bad to do when you are trying to influence gulible people so they vote for you. After winning the election it becomes good because it is Obama that is doing the wire tapping and excessive spending to a degree many times more than what was done under bush.


Although I agree with the wire tapping and spying to a degree, I question who Obama is using it on. I felt under Bush it was mainly for defence, but under Obama I feel it is being used to look into our private lives to control his agenda. I don't trust the government to do what is good for us nor do I trust Obama to do what is good for the country. I feel Obama's Agenda is more inportant to him than the prosperous future of our country.

[quade 4]

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. . . Obama that is doing the wire tapping and excessive spending to a degree many times more than what was done under bush.

The spending is obvious. A person can disagree with the efficacy of it as far as stimulus, but it's absolutely transparent as far as it happening.

Your wiretap claim though . . . where are you seeing that?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[skymiles 3]

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Although I agree with the wire tapping and spying to a degree, I question who Obama is using it on. I felt under Bush it was mainly for defence, but under Obama I feel it is being used to look into our private lives to control his agenda. I don't trust the government to do what is good for us nor do I trust Obama to do what is good for the country. I feel Obama's Agenda is more inportant to him than the prosperous future of our country.

and what are these feelings based on --- nothing?

[rushmc 23]

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I guess it is only bad to do when you are trying to influence gulible people so they vote for you. After winning the election it becomes good because it is Obama that is doing the wire tapping and excessive spending to a degree many times more than what was done under bush.


Although I agree with the wire tapping and spying to a degree, I question who Obama is using it on. I felt under Bush it was mainly for defence, but under Obama I feel it is being used to look into our private lives to control his agenda. I don't trust the government to do what is good for us nor do I trust Obama to do what is good for the country. I feel Obama's Agenda is more inportant to him than the prosperous future of our country.

I find it hard to trust him with the economy and social issues. I did not like most of what Bush did in these areas either but, I do not feel he would do anything to hurt this county as far as any threat goes. That said, this decision goes along with a couple others where he has kept the power. As predicted I have to say. Gitmo is a long way from closed too

But he did lie to his voters. He is not doing what he said he would do.

But he is doing what most who understood said he would do

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

Boy - that POTUS job sure is a lot harder that the Dems campaigned it to be.

You mean to say that Dems are just as uneducated and moronic as Bush? Have they got Karl Rove and Dick Cheney advising them?

Now all we need is Hillary to show the same inability to make a deal as Rice.

What, did the Dems get ahold of the GOP playbook and say, "two can play that game."

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Amazon 7]

Another tick on the ever lengthing list of whining from the deadenders

[lawrocket 3]

Maybe there is something about a history of doing blow that has this effect on a POTUS... I'd never held it against either but now I'm starting to wonder...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Boy - that POTUS job sure is a lot harder that the Dems campaigned it to be.

You mean to say that Dems are just as uneducated and moronic as Bush? Have they got Karl Rove and Dick Cheney advising them?

I think even a lot of those who voted for him knew he was going in green.

OTOH, Bush didn't get any smarter with each year in office. If the same happens here, I hope he is replaced in 2012.

[lawrocket 3]

Hope he's replaced? With whom? This really shows how damned few the differences are between dems and GOP. Sure, I hated Bush and am growing even more distrustful of Obama. There is, however, that part of me that is considering that the job of the president simply requires a mob boss mentality.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Skyrad 0]

So you rather he gave away secret information pertaining to National Security?? Why don't you just come clean about why you really don't like him, because so far all I'm hearing from Republicans (and some Dems) is whinging crap about anything other than why they have a problem with the guy.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[lawrocket 3]

Here's the thing:

Do I like Bush more because Obama is continuously ratifying Bush's actions and policies?

Or do I dislike Obama because he is constinuously ratifying Bush's actions and policies?

Bush was hated for it, why not Obama? Or is Bush's legacy being rehabilitated by Obama? That is, was Bush and is Obama simply faced with a series of lousy choices?

If it sucked when Bush did it it should suck when Obama does it.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rushmc 23]

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So you rather he gave away secret information pertaining to National Security?? Why don't you just come clean about why you really don't like him, because so far all I'm hearing from Republicans (and some Dems) is whinging crap about anything other than why they have a problem with the guy.

Sorry that when his actions and performance are pointed out to you it is so upsetting.

And have him give away national secrets? WTF does that mean and where the hell did you get that from??

In any event. It is him pissing you off, not me.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

and by the way, I have nothing against him. I just dont like his policy and postitions

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

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and by the way, I have nothing against him. I just dont like his policy and postitions

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


must catch breath




BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[livendive 8]

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I feel Obama's Agenda is more inportant to him than the prosperous future of our country.

What makes you think Obama's agenda isn't his idea of how to ensure a prosperous future for our country? You and he may disagree on how to achieve that future, but I suspect both would like to see it come to pass.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[marks2065 0]

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Quote

I feel Obama's Agenda is more inportant to him than the prosperous future of our country.

What makes you think Obama's agenda isn't his idea of how to ensure a prosperous future for our country? You and he may disagree on how to achieve that future, but I suspect both would like to see it come to pass.

Blues,
Dave

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Obama's vision is he wants the hard working prosperous people to pay for the freeloaders. Not what this country was founded on

[livendive 8]

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I feel Obama's Agenda is more inportant to him than the prosperous future of our country.

What makes you think Obama's agenda isn't his idea of how to ensure a prosperous future for our country? You and he may disagree on how to achieve that future, but I suspect both would like to see it come to pass.

Blues,
Dave

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Obama's vision is he wants the hard working prosperous people to pay for the freeloaders. Not what this country was founded on

So you want some people to be prosperous (presumably including yourself), not the country as a whole. Color me surprised.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[lawrocket 3]

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and by the way, I have nothing against him. I just dont like his policy and postitions

I don't, either. They are the same as Bush's - only more so. And I hated Bush's.

It's like these tea parties. The left seems to think of them as a sideshow rather than groups of people with real pain and real anger who are showing it. The left seems to not want to acknowledge the reality of it. I, on the other hand, acknowledge it but wonder, "where the hell were you five fucking years ago?" It's like protesting the bridge to nowhere by protesting the painting of the road lane lines. Um - isn't it a bit late?

The frog now realizes it is boiling. It should have realized it years ago. Now the frog is complaining. The new cook who took over is likely dismissive of it as anger over him cooking.

The populace is correctly concerned. I just wish they'd see past party. Tri-Lambdas may view their party as better than the Alpha Betas - and vice versa. They both do the same thing.

We see that now more than ever.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rushmc 23]

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and by the way, I have nothing against him. I just dont like his policy and postitions

I don't, either. They are the same as Bush's - only more so. And I hated Bush's.

It's like these tea parties. The left seems to think of them as a sideshow rather than groups of people with real pain and real anger who are showing it. The left seems to not want to acknowledge the reality of it. I, on the other hand, acknowledge it but wonder, "where the hell were you five fucking years ago?" It's like protesting the bridge to nowhere by protesting the painting of the road lane lines. Um - isn't it a bit late?

The frog now realizes it is boiling. It should have realized it years ago. Now the frog is complaining. The new cook who took over is likely dismissive of it as anger over him cooking.

The populace is correctly concerned. I just wish they'd see past party. Tri-Lambdas may view their party as better than the Alpha Betas - and vice versa. They both do the same thing.

We see that now more than ever.

Yes, both do the same thing but the tea parties did not have to bus in homeless to get the numbers.

As for your post

I agree.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

Quote

So you rather he gave away secret information pertaining to National Security?? Why don't you just come clean about why you really don't like him, because so far all I'm hearing from Republicans (and some Dems) is whinging crap about anything other than why they have a problem with the guy.

Sorry that when his actions and performance are pointed out to you it is so upsetting.

And have him give away national secrets? WTF does that mean and where the hell did you get that from??

In any event. It is him pissing you off, not me.

You're not pissing me off, its just very boring to hear about Obama non issues for the sake of something to whinge about. He has to make the best of a crap situation that he's inherited from Bush and Clinton before him. Thats just the way it goes.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[rehmwa 2]

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He has to make the best of a crap situation that he's inherited from Bush and Clinton before him.

as this is a bullshit, stock, reply that's getting very old

he's doing the same things only MORE SO - the best of that crap situation would be to do less, not doubling down on the 'failed policies' of the past

Obama is just GWB in his 3rd term, a little taller, with big ears. No one wants that.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[lawrocket 3]

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its just very boring to hear about Obama non issues

It may be a non-issue to you. To others it is important.

The issue of the lack of irrigation water delivery to the west-side of California's Central Valley is likely a non-issue to you. It's crisis where I am.

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He has to make the best of a crap situation that he's inherited from Bush and Clinton before him

Absolutely. He didn't cause these issues - that much is understood. The problem is that the policies that were blamed for causing these problems are being continued. I don't know all the details, but the policies are just too similar.

The "Global War on Terror?" Far from being ended, most of it is being kept in place, only now it is an "oversease contingency operations." This consists of increasing presence by 30k troops in Afghanistan and martyring Pakistanis. Result? Same policy as Bush.

"Terrorism?" No longer will is be phrased as such, but instead "man-caused disasters." Except, of course, "terrorism" is applied to returning veterans who support Ron Paul. Different policy than Bush by changing terminology.

Unilateral withdrawal from Iraq? No, he's paying heed (smartly) to Petraeus. Same policy as Bush.

Gitmo being closed within a year? Nope. Won't happen. One of the unforeseen issues is finding a country that wants them back. No, not Obama's fault but showing that the policy proclamations of campaigns run into some realities. Result? Same policy as Bush - keep them while we figure out what to do with them.

Unconstitutional wiretapping by bush admin? No. The Obama admin will go to court to protect the wiretapping.

The only difference I am seeing from Obama is his effort to change the viewpoint of America on the world stage. No longer the cowboy, but acknowledgment of past misdeeds, problems, arrogance, etc.

I have heard comments from many in the press, etc., who take issue with this. I do not. I think this approach is refreshing. It is how deals get made. I rather like that Obama is attempting to do away with posturing.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Amazon 7]

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The "Global War on Terror?" Far from being ended, most of it is being kept in place, only now it is an "oversease contingency operations." This consists of increasing presence by 30k troops in Afghanistan and martyring Pakistanis. Result? Same policy as Bush.

Gee....


This is the war that Bush SHOULD have been fighting.... the actual people who attacked us.

Trouble is Cheneyhis hand up the dummy's ass and made the mouth keep saying Iraq... Iraq....

No oil in Afghanistan my boy....




If we need to martyr a few thousand Pakistani's who see us as enemies and seek to harm us too fucking bad..... and start with the ISI... OOOPS so sorry... Allah is waiting with a whole bunch of virgins for you since you are thinking with your little heads. Have fun in paradise.

[DougH 270]

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So you want some people to be prosperous (presumably including yourself), not the country as a whole. Color me surprised.

Blues,
Dave

1. I want every hard working individual to prospere.
2. I want hard working people who trip and falter to get a hand up.
3. I want those who are truly helpless to get protection and care.
4. I want the lazy, and those who feign helplessness, and those who make stupid decisions with the mindset that the government will save them to deal with their actions. The hard efforts from those in comment 1 should not go the people in this group.

Are any of those view conficting?

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P