GM CEO Wagoner to Step Down at White House Request - WTF?!

[Gawain 0]

So, now President Obama thinks he can build cars. Since when did a loan constitute ownership or shareholding of this company?

If I were a shareholder, I would be pretty ticked off (not that I wouldn't have been already).

I am no fan of the management, or the union of GM, but what, in the flying f*ck is going on here?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/gm_wagoner

If the government steps any further into this, GM is finished. CEO Wagoner wasn't the problem in my view anyway, it was vice-chair and global product development Bob Lutz that has eroded the brands under GM.

Okay gang, let's have it. Personally, I think Wagoner was going to take GM into bankruptcy, but the democrats can't allow that because then UAW is up the creek, with no paddle.

President Obama taught something related to the Constitution once upon a time didn't he? Someone show me where this even comes close to anything written on that document.



For those that put him in power, you now have this, along with Geithner's calls to be able to take over any company he deems fit to cause a disruption to the economy...any company.

My bet is that stocks tumble on this news tomorrow.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[ryoder 1,590]

When you take govt money, it comes with strings attached.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[wayneflorida 0]

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When you take govt money, it comes with strings attached.

Yep, government is like the local pimp.

[rwieder 0]

You may not know it yet but CEO Rick Wagoner is a theif and a liar. He stepped down to keep from facing public scrutiny.

Did you think Kenneth Lay was an upstanding gentleman too? Surely not.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[quade 4]

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If the government steps any further into this, GM is finished.

And if they don't do anything . . . GM is finished.

I would MUCH rather have top GM management be fucked with than the thousands of people below them.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Coreece 190]

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So, now President Obama thinks he can build cars. Since when did a loan constitute ownership or shareholding of this company?

I am no fan of the management, or the union of GM, but what, in the flying f*ck is going on here?

Isn't this basically part of what you asked for?

From 11/17/08 - Before GWB gave GM the funds and BHO was President:

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.....I want GM to succeed......I want the UAW to succeed, however, I do not believe it is possible with the current leadership in place with either entity.......if the taxpayer is going to go on the line to save the union (which is what this bailout does), then I want the labor agreement wiped clean. I want the jobs-bank off the table, I want senior management out......

Quoted from this thread:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3397135;#3397150

They also fufilled your request to suspended the Job Banks....

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[kbordson 8]

But is it a government right to be able to dictate that?

[Andy9o8 2]

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When you take govt money, it comes with strings attached.

Yep, government is like the local pimp.

Well, then every bank and finance company is a pimp. (And maybe they are!)
Every lender has underwriting requirements, often specially-tailored to fit the borrower's circumstances. You want the loan, you follow the lender's requirements. You don't want to adhere to those requirements, then find yourself someone else to borrow the money from - if you can.

[Gawain 0]

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So, now President Obama thinks he can build cars. Since when did a loan constitute ownership or shareholding of this company?

I am no fan of the management, or the union of GM, but what, in the flying f*ck is going on here?

Isn't this basically part of what you asked for?

From 11/17/08 - Before GWB gave GM the funds and BHO was President:

Quote

.....I want GM to succeed......I want the UAW to succeed, however, I do not believe it is possible with the current leadership in place with either entity.......if the taxpayer is going to go on the line to save the union (which is what this bailout does), then I want the labor agreement wiped clean. I want the jobs-bank off the table, I want senior management out......

Quoted from this thread:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3397135;#3397150

They also fufilled your request to suspended the Job Banks....

I stand by my statements. You'll notice that UAW will neither make or allow such a sacrifice in their leadership. You'll also notice that the jobs-bank right now is only "suspended" at this time.

The feds should have pulled the strings at the very beginning...not that they should have done this in the first place.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Coreece 190]

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But is it a government right to be able to dictate that?

They didn't force him out they requested it, dare I say on behalf of the people? The people wanted some blood and they got it....you should be happy, but than again I guess I can't expect that from such a blood thristy bunch.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Gawain 0]

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You may not know it yet but CEO Rick Wagoner is a theif and a liar. He stepped down to keep from facing public scrutiny.

Did you think Kenneth Lay was an upstanding gentleman too? Surely not.

I'm on the record as to being not thrilled with GMs management. However, publicly traded companies are owned by shareholders.

This was a loan, not a stock-purchase, and therefore, the stockholders have just been sidestepped completely. Just wait, the next CEO will not be voted in by the Board of Directors or shareholders in a clean fashion. Now that the government has their finger in this, they will not remove it.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kbordson 8]

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But is it a government right to be able to dictate that?

They didn't force him out they requested it, dare I say on behalf of the people? The people wanted some blood and they got it....you should be happy, but than again I guess I can't expect that from such a blood thristy[sic] bunch.

Why should I be happy about the government coming into a company and dictating... or "requesting" internal policy changes?

Since you seem to know me better than I know myself, please answer that.

[Coreece 190]

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Why should I be happy

you're a Doctor.....it's healthier...makes life taste a little less bitter.

Listen, all I'm saying is that many people wanted him gone and now he's gone yet they still bitch...so what if it took a little nudge from the government to do what the people already wanted in the first place?

btw....I didn't want to see him go, but if it is better for GM or PR....so be it.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[kbordson 8]

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Why should I be happy

you're a Doctor.....it's healthier...makes life taste a little less bitter.

Listen, all I'm saying is that many people wanted him gone and now he's gone yet they still bitch...so what if it took a little nudge from the government to do what the people already wanted in the first place?

btw....I didn't want to see him go, but if it is better for GM or PR....so be it.

No. More government control is not healthier and does not make me less bitter - as a doctor or not.

I do not like government interference. I think it is WAY overstepping its limits here regardless of what the mob mentality wants.

[Coreece 190]

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No. More government control is not healthier and does not make me less bitter - as a doctor or not.

I do not like government interference. I think it is WAY overstepping its limits here regardless of what the mob mentality wants.

Again, they did not FORCE him out.

I can understand your concern and can agree to a certain degree generally speaking, but in this particular instance I think you may me over-reacting.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[billvon 3,111]

>Why should I be happy about the government coming into a
>company and dictating... or "requesting" internal policy changes?

I've got no problem with the government asking for things - provided you can say no.

[kbordson 8]

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No. More government control is not healthier and does not make me less bitter - as a doctor or not.

I do not like government interference. I think it is WAY overstepping its limits here regardless of what the mob mentality wants.

Again, they did not FORCE him out.

I can understand your concern and can agree to a certain degree generally speaking, but in this particular instance I think you may me over-reacting.

You're entitled to you opinion. And I should be entitled to mine.. that is until the government comes in and tells me that I'm wrong, of course.

[sfc 1]

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>Why should I be happy about the government coming into a
>company and dictating... or "requesting" internal policy changes?

I've got no problem with the government asking for things - provided you can say no.

Totally agree, they could refuse the loans/bail out they are getting, I don't see Washington nationalizing GM.

I don't see why we (the people) should just give them cash with no strings, look what happened with AIG and the bonuses, the greedy fuckers will keep on taking if we don't set out some rules. Personally I think we should take a huge stake in GM in return for the loan and if they don't like it then let them go bust (my preferred option), but given that we are bailing them out and that they fucked up why should they be allowed to continue business as usual, it obviously hasn't worked and heads should roll. If a bank were giving them a loan they would attach the same preconditions.
And remember it was they who came cap in hand to DC begging for money, DC did not go to them.

[TomAiello 26]

The simple solution would be not to give my (taxpayers') money to private companies, and not to have the government meddle in their management.

If private business makes bad decisions and goes bankrupt--then they should go bankrupt.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[jerryzflies 0]

Quote

Quote

So, now President Obama thinks he can build cars. Since when did a loan constitute ownership or shareholding of this company?

I am no fan of the management, or the union of GM, but what, in the flying f*ck is going on here?

Isn't this basically part of what you asked for?

From 11/17/08 - Before GWB gave GM the funds and BHO was President:

Quote

.....I want GM to succeed......I want the UAW to succeed, however, I do not believe it is possible with the current leadership in place with either entity.......if the taxpayer is going to go on the line to save the union (which is what this bailout does), then I want the labor agreement wiped clean. I want the jobs-bank off the table, I want senior management out......

Quoted from this thread:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3397135;#3397150

They also fufilled your request to suspended the Job Banks....

Yes, but back last year Gawain was telling us there was no recession. Remember the "R-word" thread he started?

I detect a lack of credibility.

If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical.

[jerryzflies 0]

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You may not know it yet but CEO Rick Wagoner is a theif and a liar. He stepped down to keep from facing public scrutiny.

Did you think Kenneth Lay was an upstanding gentleman too? Surely not.

I'm on the record as to being not thrilled with GMs management. However, publicly traded companies are owned by shareholders.

This was a loan, not a stock-purchase, and therefore, the stockholders have just been sidestepped completely. Just wait, the next CEO will not be voted in by the Board of Directors or shareholders in a clean fashion. Now that the government has their finger in this, they will not remove it.

When a business goes to a bank for a loan, the bank can make conditions.

In this case the banks have so screwed themselves (and the rest of us) that the only available lender is the govt. So the govt. gets to make conditions instead.

If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical.

[FallingOsh 0]

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You may not know it yet but CEO Rick Wagoner is a theif and a liar. He stepped down to keep from facing public scrutiny.

Did you think Kenneth Lay was an upstanding gentleman too? Surely not.

I'm on the record as to being not thrilled with GMs management. However, publicly traded companies are owned by shareholders.

This was a loan, not a stock-purchase, and therefore, the stockholders have just been sidestepped completely. Just wait, the next CEO will not be voted in by the Board of Directors or shareholders in a clean fashion. Now that the government has their finger in this, they will not remove it.

When a business goes to a bank for a loan, the bank can make conditions.

In this case the banks have so screwed themselves (and the rest of us) that the only available lender is the govt. So the govt. gets to make conditions instead.

Conditions are set prior to the loan. The bank can't show up at your house a year later and tell you who's allowed to live there.

The money shouldn't have been given in the first place. I can't believe people are actually defending this much government intervention in a public company, "requests" or otherwise. It might be a good time to invest in Ford since they'll soon be The Big One.

--------------------------------------------------
Stay positive and love your life.

[Capt.Slog 0]

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You may not know it yet but CEO Rick Wagoner is a theif and a liar. He stepped down to keep from facing public scrutiny.

Did you think Kenneth Lay was an upstanding gentleman too? Surely not.

I'm on the record as to being not thrilled with GMs management. However, publicly traded companies are owned by shareholders.

This was a loan, not a stock-purchase, and therefore, the stockholders have just been sidestepped completely. Just wait, the next CEO will not be voted in by the Board of Directors or shareholders in a clean fashion. Now that the government has their finger in this, they will not remove it.

When a business goes to a bank for a loan, the bank can make conditions.

In this case the banks have so screwed themselves (and the rest of us) that the only available lender is the govt. So the govt. gets to make conditions instead.

Conditions are set prior to the loan. .

Right, and GM is asking for another.

[Capt.Slog 0]

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The simple solution would be not to give my (taxpayers') money to private companies, and not to have the government meddle in their management.

If private business makes bad decisions and goes bankrupt--then they should go bankrupt.

abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=7208201&page=1

And the failure of a CEO should not walk away from the wreck with $20M.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Conditions are set prior to the loan. The bank can't show up at your house a year later and tell you who's allowed to live there.

Uh-uh. This was a pre-condition for further (i.e., future) loans. From the article:

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Wagoner's ouster came just before President Barack Obama planned to announce what Chrysler and GM must do to get government loans beyond the $17.4 billion they have already received.

(That aside, business loan promissory notes generally allow the lender to "call the note" (accelerate the loan and demand immediate payment-back of the remaining principal) for all sorts of reasons if the lender sees evidence, post-disbursement, that the borrower-business is on the road to failure or insolvency.)