Gun laws we (or at least I) didn't know

[chuckakers 426]

Is this true?

From Wiki:

Switzerland requires every male over the age of 20 to own an assault rifle (specifically SIG 550 in 5.56 cal.). In one study by David Kopel of seven countries, including the United States and Japan, Switzerland is found to be one of the safest countries in the study.[26] In recent times political opposition has expressed a desire for tighter gun regulations.[26] Switzerland practices universal conscription, which requires that all able-bodied male citizens keep fully-automatic firearms at home in case of a call-up. Every male between the ages of 20 and 42 is considered a candidate for conscription into the military, and following a brief period of active duty will commonly be enrolled in the militia until age or an inability to serve ends his service obligation.[27] During their enrollment in the armed forces, these men are required to keep their government-issued selective fire combat rifles and semi-automatic handguns in their homes.[28] Up until September 2007, soldiers also received 20 rounds of government-issued ammunition in a sealed box for storage at home.[29] In addition to these official weapons, Swiss citizens are allowed to purchase surplus-to-inventory combat rifles, and shooting is a popular sport in all the Swiss cantons.

(edited to add):

I find it interesting (if the wiki info is accurate) that a country that requires gun possession is one of the statisitically safest countries in the world.

I'm also interested to hear from the anti-gun folks on this one.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[quade 4]

Quote

Is this true?

It's true but only PART of the story.

Your quoted article makes it sound as if they are only required to own a weapon. That's misleading.

Here's the missing part;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland#Army_issued_arms

Quote

Swiss males grow up expecting to undergo basic military training, usually at age 20 in the Rekrutenschule (German for "recruit school"), the initial boot camp, after which Swiss men remain part of the "militia" in reserve capacity until age 30 (age 34 for officers). Each such individual is required to keep his army-issued personal weapon (the 5.56x45mm Sig 550 rifle for enlisted personnel or the SIG 510 rifle and/or the 9mm SIG-Sauer P220 semi-automatic pistol for officers, medical and postal personnel) at home with a specified personal retention quantity of government-issued personal ammunition (50 rounds 5.56 mm / 48 rounds 9mm), which is sealed and inspected regularly to ensure that no unauthorized use takes place.

They are REQUIRED to be part of a government trained and regulated militia and as part of that they are required to keep their weapon and maintain it. This includes mandatory re-currency training. Obviously all participants are registered.

The US has voluntary military service so the comparison between the two countries is not a good one.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Is this true?

I find it interesting (if the wiki info is accurate) that a country that requires gun possession is one of the statisitically safest countries in the world.

Yes, it's true.

And once their term of service is fulfilled, they are allowed to purchase their duty rifles and keep them.

The anti-gun folks don't like to talk about this example, as it destroys their "less guns = less crime" argument.

[quade 4]

Quote

The anti-gun folks don't like to talk about this example, as it destroys their "less guns = less crime" argument.

And pro-gun folks like to skip the part about them undergoing military training and having the guns and ammo registered.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Is this true?

From Wiki:

Switzerland requires every male over the age of 20 to own an assault rifle (specifically SIG 550 in 5.56 cal.). In one study by David Kopel of seven countries, including the United States and Japan, Switzerland is found to be one of the safest countries in the study.[26] In recent times political opposition has expressed a desire for tighter gun regulations.[26] Switzerland practices universal conscription, which requires that all able-bodied male citizens keep fully-automatic firearms at home in case of a call-up. Every male between the ages of 20 and 42 is considered a candidate for conscription into the military, and following a brief period of active duty will commonly be enrolled in the militia until age or an inability to serve ends his service obligation.[27] During their enrollment in the armed forces, these men are required to keep their government-issued selective fire combat rifles and semi-automatic handguns in their homes.[28] Up until September 2007, soldiers also received 20 rounds of government-issued ammunition in a sealed box for storage at home.[29] In addition to these official weapons, Swiss citizens are allowed to purchase surplus-to-inventory combat rifles, and shooting is a popular sport in all the Swiss cantons.

(edited to add):

I find it interesting (if the wiki info is accurate) that a country that requires gun possession is one of the statisitically safest countries in the world.

I'm also interested to hear from the anti-gun folks on this one.

I think this country would be far safer if EVERY high school freshman was required to take firearms training as a class. Everyone should know how to respect weapons and learn their proper use.

Letting kids learn about weapons from first person shooter games is NUTZ

[quade 4]

Quote

I think this country would be far safer if EVERY high school freshman was required to take firearms training as a class. Everyone should know how to respect weapons and learn their proper use.

Most school districts have cut driver training due to budget constraints. While guns in untrained hands are bad, cars are more common. I don't think you could reasonably pass mandatory weapons training if you can't afford driver's ed.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[chuckakers 426]

Quote

Quote

Is this true?

It's true but only PART of the story.

Your quoted article makes it sound as if they are only required to own a weapon. That's misleading.

Here's the missing part;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland#Army_issued_arms

Quote

Swiss males grow up expecting to undergo basic military training, usually at age 20 in the Rekrutenschule (German for "recruit school"), the initial boot camp, after which Swiss men remain part of the "militia" in reserve capacity until age 30 (age 34 for officers). Each such individual is required to keep his army-issued personal weapon (the 5.56x45mm Sig 550 rifle for enlisted personnel or the SIG 510 rifle and/or the 9mm SIG-Sauer P220 semi-automatic pistol for officers, medical and postal personnel) at home with a specified personal retention quantity of government-issued personal ammunition (50 rounds 5.56 mm / 48 rounds 9mm), which is sealed and inspected regularly to ensure that no unauthorized use takes place.

They are REQUIRED to be part of a government trained and regulated militia and as part of that they are required to keep their weapon and maintain it. This includes mandatory re-currency training. Obviously all participants are registered.

The US has voluntary military service so the comparison between the two countries is not a good one.

I wasn't making a comparison to the varying types of military service. I just found it interesting that there must be many, many automatic weapons being kept in closets in Switzerland, yet they have one of the lowest gun crime stats in the world.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[ryoder 1,590]

I've also read this is a sticking point over the issue of Switzerland eventually joining the EU.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

I think this country would be far safer if EVERY high school freshman was required to take firearms training as a class. Everyone should know how to respect weapons and learn their proper use.

Most school districts have cut driver training due to budget constraints. While guns in untrained hands are bad, cars are more common. I don't think you could reasonably pass mandatory weapons training if you can't afford driver's ed.

Kids can learn to drive at home....

Most urban dwellers dont have the same option to learn the proper handling of weapons... and many of them grow up scared of something they don't understand.

Knowledge is a very powerful thing.. and removing accidents and fear due to stupidity would be a start.

[chuckakers 426]

Quote

Quote

The anti-gun folks don't like to talk about this example, as it destroys their "less guns = less crime" argument.

And pro-gun folks like to skip the part about them undergoing military training and having the guns and ammo registered.

Actually, I've never heard pro-gun folks say anything about gun ownership in Switzerland at all...until now.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[chuckakers 426]

Quote

Quote

Is this true?

From Wiki:

Switzerland requires every male over the age of 20 to own an assault rifle (specifically SIG 550 in 5.56 cal.). In one study by David Kopel of seven countries, including the United States and Japan, Switzerland is found to be one of the safest countries in the study.[26] In recent times political opposition has expressed a desire for tighter gun regulations.[26] Switzerland practices universal conscription, which requires that all able-bodied male citizens keep fully-automatic firearms at home in case of a call-up. Every male between the ages of 20 and 42 is considered a candidate for conscription into the military, and following a brief period of active duty will commonly be enrolled in the militia until age or an inability to serve ends his service obligation.[27] During their enrollment in the armed forces, these men are required to keep their government-issued selective fire combat rifles and semi-automatic handguns in their homes.[28] Up until September 2007, soldiers also received 20 rounds of government-issued ammunition in a sealed box for storage at home.[29] In addition to these official weapons, Swiss citizens are allowed to purchase surplus-to-inventory combat rifles, and shooting is a popular sport in all the Swiss cantons.

(edited to add):

I find it interesting (if the wiki info is accurate) that a country that requires gun possession is one of the statisitically safest countries in the world.

I'm also interested to hear from the anti-gun folks on this one.

I think this country would be far safer if EVERY high school freshman was required to take firearms training as a class. Everyone should know how to respect weapons and learn their proper use.

Letting kids learn about weapons from first person shooter games is NUTZ

I agree with your first statement. As for your second, I don't think people are "letting" kids learn about guns from video games. It's just happening that way.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Is this true?

From Wiki:

Switzerland requires every male over the age of 20 to own an assault rifle (specifically SIG 550 in 5.56 cal.). In one study by David Kopel of seven countries, including the United States and Japan, Switzerland is found to be one of the safest countries in the study.[26] In recent times political opposition has expressed a desire for tighter gun regulations.[26] Switzerland practices universal conscription, which requires that all able-bodied male citizens keep fully-automatic firearms at home in case of a call-up. Every male between the ages of 20 and 42 is considered a candidate for conscription into the military, and following a brief period of active duty will commonly be enrolled in the militia until age or an inability to serve ends his service obligation.[27] During their enrollment in the armed forces, these men are required to keep their government-issued selective fire combat rifles and semi-automatic handguns in their homes.[28] Up until September 2007, soldiers also received 20 rounds of government-issued ammunition in a sealed box for storage at home.[29] In addition to these official weapons, Swiss citizens are allowed to purchase surplus-to-inventory combat rifles, and shooting is a popular sport in all the Swiss cantons.

(edited to add):

I find it interesting (if the wiki info is accurate) that a country that requires gun possession is one of the statisitically safest countries in the world.

I'm also interested to hear from the anti-gun folks on this one.

I think this country would be far safer if EVERY high school freshman was required to take firearms training as a class. Everyone should know how to respect weapons and learn their proper use.

Letting kids learn about weapons from first person shooter games is NUTZ

I agree with your first statement. As for your second, I don't think people are "letting" kids learn about guns from video games. It's just happening that way.

I think it is LETTING them.. in the home..... parents who are absent from teaching their children many things let alone guns.. or sex.

The schools are there to teach the young.... I want them doing that.... especially for those whose parents are incapable because even THEY dont have a clue.

[FreeflyChile 0]

Quote

Quote

Is this true?

From Wiki:

Switzerland requires every male over the age of 20 to own an assault rifle (specifically SIG 550 in 5.56 cal.). In one study by David Kopel of seven countries, including the United States and Japan, Switzerland is found to be one of the safest countries in the study.[26] In recent times political opposition has expressed a desire for tighter gun regulations.[26] Switzerland practices universal conscription, which requires that all able-bodied male citizens keep fully-automatic firearms at home in case of a call-up. Every male between the ages of 20 and 42 is considered a candidate for conscription into the military, and following a brief period of active duty will commonly be enrolled in the militia until age or an inability to serve ends his service obligation.[27] During their enrollment in the armed forces, these men are required to keep their government-issued selective fire combat rifles and semi-automatic handguns in their homes.[28] Up until September 2007, soldiers also received 20 rounds of government-issued ammunition in a sealed box for storage at home.[29] In addition to these official weapons, Swiss citizens are allowed to purchase surplus-to-inventory combat rifles, and shooting is a popular sport in all the Swiss cantons.

(edited to add):

I find it interesting (if the wiki info is accurate) that a country that requires gun possession is one of the statisitically safest countries in the world.

I'm also interested to hear from the anti-gun folks on this one.

I think this country would be far safer if EVERY high school freshman was required to take firearms training as a class. Everyone should know how to respect weapons and learn their proper use.

Letting kids learn about weapons from first person shooter games is NUTZ

I'm relieved to know that 3rd person shooter games are still OK!

[chuckakers 426]

Quote

Quote

I think this country would be far safer if EVERY high school freshman was required to take firearms training as a class. Everyone should know how to respect weapons and learn their proper use.

Most school districts have cut driver training due to budget constraints. While guns in untrained hands are bad, cars are more common. I don't think you could reasonably pass mandatory weapons training if you can't afford driver's ed.

Huh?

Let's see, driving a car for 500 or so miles takes (at 20 miles per gallon) about $50 in gas, and let's say another $100 in wear and tear on the car (at 20 cents per mile), and insurance (probably expensive for drivers ed kids) is likely another $50 per kid. That's $200.

I think I could train a kid to properly use a gun with 200 rounds of ammo and an afternoon of shooting cans on the back forty.

Then there's hunting clubs, shooting clubs, youth outdoorsman clubs, etc., etc., etc., that don't rely on government money to teach gun safety.

An armed society is a polite society. Just ask the Swiss!!

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[GeorgiaDon 379]

An armed society is a polite society. Just look at Somalia!

The cultural difference between the Swiss and the US is huge. Crime is reviled, and criminals are generally ostracized, not embraced as role models or heroes as too frequently occurs in portions of American society. Actually, in general social conformity is valued, standing out too much is a no-no. Military service is mandatory and the training is rigorous, so people have respect for what guns are capable of. So I'd say the difference in crime rate has nothing to do with being a well-armed society, it's just a polite society with guns. Guns don't make people criminals, and there isn't much evidence that they make people honest either, they're just inanimate tools. It's what is in the hearts of the people that matters.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[downwardspiral 0]

Quote

Letting kids learn about weapons from first person shooter games is NUTZ

Being a shooter as well as a gamer, especially of the first person variety, I 100% agree with that statement. The subject of video games and their affect on children really does need its own thread.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

I wasn't making a comparison to the varying types of military service. I just found it interesting that there must be many, many automatic weapons being kept in closets in Switzerland, yet they have one of the lowest gun crime stats in the world.

---

An armed society is a polite society. Just ask the Swiss!!

US rate of ownership of guns (estimates range from 83 to 97 per 100 people) is higher than the gun ownership rate in Switzerland (average estimate of 48 per 100 people). The estimate for Iraq in 2007 was 38 per 100 people and Yemen was 61 guns per 100 people.

See, e.g., graphic attached to [1969912]’s post from Dec07 here, which is derived from primary data here.


Relative rankings on crime, e.g., burglaries, in which Switzerland (#13) has a higher burglary rate than the US (#17) (overall incidence, those with guns not specified). The UK (#7), according to the data, has an even higher rate of burglaries (& ~5 1/2 guns per person). Finland is #5 in buglaries, with a higher per capita rate of gun ownership (56 per 100 people) than Switzerland (46 per 100 people), although less than the US (90 per 100 people).

Looking at homicides via firearms: US is #8 w/3.6 firearm associated homicides per 100,000 people. Between Mexico (#7), altho' that may be slightly dated, and Belarus (#9). Switzerland isn't in the top 32.

If one compares that with firearms per 100 people (a less than perfect measure of availability), I don’t see any correlation.


Variables that have been found to correlate to high levels of gun ownership are (1) wealthy countries or (2) countries with recent, intense violent conflicts. The former is the case for US & western Europe; the latter reflects the situations in places like Angola and Columbia. See page 21 of the report noted above for a graph showing the range of GDPs and correlation with per capita civilian gun ownership. The authors discuss where that model breaks down, which it does. Where does gun ownership intersect with gun violence? My hypothesis is that there will not be a direct dependency found.

Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[Capt.Slog 0]

Quote

Quote

I wasn't making a comparison to the varying types of military service. I just found it interesting that there must be many, many automatic weapons being kept in closets in Switzerland, yet they have one of the lowest gun crime stats in the world.

---

An armed society is a polite society. Just ask the Swiss!!

US rate of ownership of guns (estimates range from 83 to 97 per 100 people) is higher than the gun ownership rate in Switzerland (average estimate of 48 per 100 people). The estimate for Iraq in 2007 was 38 per 100 people and Yemen was 61 guns per 100 people.

See, e.g., graphic attached to [1969912]’s post from Dec07 here, which is derived from primary data here.


Relative rankings on crime, e.g., burglaries, in which Switzerland (#13) has a higher burglary rate than the US (#17) (overall incidence, those with guns not specified). The UK (#7), according to the data, has an even higher rate of burglaries (& ~5 1/2 guns per person). Finland is #5 in buglaries, with a higher per capita rate of gun ownership (56 per 100 people) than Switzerland (46 per 100 people), although less than the US (90 per 100 people).

Looking at homicides via firearms: US is #8 w/3.6 firearm associated homicides per 100,000 people. Between Mexico (#7), altho' that may be slightly dated, and Belarus (#9). Switzerland isn't in the top 32.

If one compares that with firearms per 100 people (a less than perfect measure of availability), I don’t see any correlation.


Variables that have been found to correlate to high levels of gun ownership are (1) wealthy countries or (2) countries with recent, intense violent conflicts. The former is the case for US & western Europe; the latter reflects the situations in places like Angola and Columbia. See page 21 of the report noted above for a graph showing the range of GDPs and correlation with per capita civilian gun ownership. The authors discuss where that model breaks down, which it does. Where does gun ownership intersect with gun violence? My hypothesis is that there will not be a direct dependency found.

Marg

How is Switzerland in terms of suicides (and gun suicides)?

[downwardspiral 0]

Quote

My hypothesis is that there will not be a direct dependency found.

What's your position on gun control?

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[Capt.Slog 0]

Quote

Quote

Is this true?

I find it interesting (if the wiki info is accurate) that a country that requires gun possession is one of the statisitically safest countries in the world.

Yes, it's true.

And once their term of service is fulfilled, they are allowed to purchase their duty rifles and keep them.

The anti-gun folks don't like to talk about this example, as it destroys their "less guns = less crime" argument.

Well, if their ammunition is sealed as quade quoted...

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

Quote

My hypothesis is that there will not be a direct dependency found.

What's your position on gun control?

Does that matter ... or should it?

/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[Capt.Slog 0]

Quote

Is this true?

From Wiki:

Switzerland requires every male over the age of 20 to own an assault rifle (specifically SIG 550 in 5.56 cal.). In one study by David Kopel of seven countries, including the United States and Japan, Switzerland is found to be one of the safest countries in the study.[26] In recent times political opposition has expressed a desire for tighter gun regulations.[26] Switzerland practices universal conscription, which requires that all able-bodied male citizens keep fully-automatic firearms at home in case of a call-up. Every male between the ages of 20 and 42 is considered a candidate for conscription into the military, and following a brief period of active duty will commonly be enrolled in the militia until age or an inability to serve ends his service obligation.[27] During their enrollment in the armed forces, these men are required to keep their government-issued selective fire combat rifles and semi-automatic handguns in their homes.[28] Up until September 2007, soldiers also received 20 rounds of government-issued ammunition in a sealed box for storage at home.[29] In addition to these official weapons, Swiss citizens are allowed to purchase surplus-to-inventory combat rifles, and shooting is a popular sport in all the Swiss cantons.

(edited to add):

I find it interesting (if the wiki info is accurate) that a country that requires gun possession is one of the statisitically safest countries in the world.

I'm also interested to hear from the anti-gun folks on this one.

How is handgun ownership?

[downwardspiral 0]

I agree with your hypothesis so I was just curious. Besides I just saw your post in the other thread so apparently it does matter.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

How is Switzerland in terms of suicides (and gun suicides)?

I don't know.

/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[quade 4]

Quote

Quote

Quote

The anti-gun folks don't like to talk about this example, as it destroys their "less guns = less crime" argument.

And pro-gun folks like to skip the part about them undergoing military training and having the guns and ammo registered.

Actually, I've never heard pro-gun folks say anything about gun ownership in Switzerland at all...until now.

Then you haven't been paying attention. The NRA and JR bring it up on a fairly regular basis. Do a search of JR's postings.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver