downwardspiral 0 #101 March 11, 2009 No...I'm talking about police interrogations based on rhetoric. You appear to advocate such behavior in our government officials. For the most part I agree with your other points but I think those points were overshadowed by your condoning fascism.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #102 March 11, 2009 QuoteNo...I'm talking about police interrogations based on rhetoric. You appear to advocate such behavior in our government officials. For the most part I agree with your other points but I think those points were overshadowed by your condoning fascism. My point was fairly simple... but I guess too many people were wound a tad too tight to actually see it.. Words have power... and how they are delivered...well do the math. IF the student was championing the right to carry on state property... he needs to do it in such a way as to not alarm those who would be interested. Want to bet that the presentation did not do it in that manner??? Again with what has been happening in our society with Choe...Co;umbine..and a whole string of other less deadly assaults I think you will find a heightened awareness on campus across the country. In this case...the student was not arrested... no guns were taken and I do believe he was asked to show up. YES that concerns me....but if he did something to set off the alarm bells in the local LEO community.. that is his own fault. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #103 March 11, 2009 The thing that 'set alarms bells off' was the hysterics of the so-called 'professor' over the subject of the presentation.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #104 March 11, 2009 QuoteThe thing that 'set alarms bells off' was the hysterics of the so-called 'professor' over the subject of the presentation. Are you so totally clueless that you are incapable of thinking that just perhaps.. the student might have been like several of you here...???? I can see several of our more vociferous posters that would not have had ANY problem whatsoever...to keeping their personal weapons on base/post in your possession rather than in the armory. After all the 2nd amendment guarantees your right no matter what the laws are... or at least so it seems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #105 March 11, 2009 QuoteQuoteThe thing that 'set alarms bells off' was the hysterics of the so-called 'professor' over the subject of the presentation. Are you so totally clueless that you are incapable of thinking that just perhaps.. the student might have been like several of you here...???? Like several of you here? More of your famed telepathy, Jeanne? QuoteI can see several of our more vociferous posters that would not have had ANY problem whatsoever...to keeping their personal weapons on base/post in your possession rather than in the armory. After all the 2nd amendment guarantees your right no matter what the laws are... or at least so it seems. Except for the fact that your analogy was (and IS) BULLSHIT, since the student LIVES 20 MILES OFF-CAMPUS. It was (and IS) BULLSHIT, because the student was making an ORAL PRESENTATION IN CLASS, not bringing his gat to school like a 3rd grade show-and-tell.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #106 March 11, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe thing that 'set alarms bells off' was the hysterics of the so-called 'professor' over the subject of the presentation. Are you so totally clueless that you are incapable of thinking that just perhaps.. the student might have been like several of you here...???? Like several of you here? More of your famed telepathy, Jeanne? QuoteI can see several of our more vociferous posters that would not have had ANY problem whatsoever...to keeping their personal weapons on base/post in your possession rather than in the armory. After all the 2nd amendment guarantees your right no matter what the laws are... or at least so it seems. Except for the fact that your analogy was (and IS) BULLSHIT, since the student LIVES 20 MILES OFF-CAMPUS. It was (and IS) BULLSHIT, because the student was making an ORAL PRESENTATION IN CLASS, not bringing his gat to school like a 3rd grade show-and-tell. Damn good thing he WAS off campus isn't it..or he would probably be prone to the same idiocy that some here have where he might have kept his weapons in the dorm to try and prove their RIGHT to bear arms anywhere they feel. Some of us who carry actually respect the laws of where we live. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #107 March 11, 2009 Whatever you say, Jeanne... I forgot that you're the font of all knowledge of what is right and proper.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #108 March 12, 2009 QuoteWhatever you say, Jeanne... I forgot that you're the font of all knowledge of what is right and proper. Good it's about time you realized that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #109 March 12, 2009 QuoteQuoteBased on the list of guns he had.and based on his professed desire to CARRY on state property..I would say a prudent officer of the law would check to make sure that no laws were being broken. So you're okay with the police detaining and questioning people who utter politically incorrect speech? Should she call the police on students who gave a speech on the legalization of drugs, to see if they have any illegal drugs in their possession on campus? Should she call the police on students who give a speech on relaxing laws against illegal immigrants, to ensure that they are legal citizens themselves? In some states, teachers/professors are legally obligated to report to authorities actions or words from students when the teacher/professor believes those actions/words to be indicative of a potential threat to safety.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #110 March 13, 2009 Quotewhen the teacher/professor believes those actions/words to be indicative of a potential threat to safety. And if the professor "believes" that a student having different political beliefs than the professor is indicative of a potential threat to safety? Now, not only can he falsify a students grades for having different subjective opinions than him (quite frequent - and not only at the PhD level, but at the high school level and even younger), he can now call the cops on the kid. He can even convince himself it's his duty and hug himself in glee. One time if a citizen knew about a Jewish family is hiding next door, he had an obligation to call the authorities. Can't quite remember where/when that was though. It'll come to me. Edit: the short of it is.... some will believe the kid was over the top in his preso, others will believe the prof is overly fanatical about his political beliefs. Since we weren't there, you just have a to pick a theory and run with it. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #111 March 13, 2009 Quote the short of it is.... some will believe the kid was over the top in his preso, others will believe the prof is overly fanatical about his political beliefs. Since we weren't there, you just have a to pick a theory and run with it. All very true. And... even if all of us were there, we would still have different perspectives of what we HEARD (not necessarily what was said) and would defend that belief despite what someone else HEARD. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #112 March 13, 2009 Quote Now, not only can he falsify a students grades for having different subjective opinions than him (quite frequent - and not only at the PhD level, but at the high school level and even younger), he can now call the cops on the kid. He can even convince himself it's his duty and hug himself in glee. I think you'll find most professors do exactly the opposite; they grade easier those students with whom they most vehemently disagree, to avoid any sign of impropriety. There's far fewer negative consequences for a professor to inflate grades than to be perceived as being overly critical due to differing philosophical viewpoints. There's zero incentive to take a chance on the latter occurring. Contrary to what you would have everyone believe, college is not some liberal indoctrination camp where conservative ideology is willfully suppressed. That may be how it works in whatever fantasy world you live in, but reality is quite different. Quote he short of it is.... some will believe the kid was over the top in his preso, others will believe the prof is overly fanatical about his political beliefs. Still others will accept that the highest probability lies somewhere in between the two extremes. For all we know, the professor reporting the student may have consisted of no more than inquiring with officials to see if the student lived on campus. Or maybe she told the police that she didn't think there was any cause for concern, but she was legally obligated to tell them about certain claims the student may have made during his presentation. That you're attempting to compare what happened to Nazi Germany is - well, let's just say it doesn't add any credibility to your post. Quote Since we weren't there, you just have a to pick a theory and run with it. Not at all. Given the information reported, it was a non-event. Why form an opinion at all? That it was even considered newsworthy seems rather sensationalist, given the lack of detail in the article about what actually transpired in the classroom or what constituted "reported one of her students to the police." The police ask people questions all the time, it doesn't mean they're being arrested or persecuted for their beliefs. Heck, I had police officers from two different jurisdictions ask me questions this past weekend. I wasn't charged with anything, didn't feel threatened, and didn't feel persecuted. People would take gun advocates a lot more seriously if so many of those advocates would stop crying wolf so often. Nothing in the article offers any indication that there was any impropriety on the professor, school, or police's part. Given Fox News conservative bias, it's reasonable to expect that, if evidence of such impropriety existed, they would have reported it. Yet, the same usual suspects are on here whining about how the student's rights were violated or how this is just like Nazi Germany. Give me a fucking break.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LyraM45 0 #113 March 13, 2009 QuoteShould she call the police on students who gave a speech on the legalization of drugs, to see if they have any illegal drugs in their possession on campus? Should she call the police on students who give a speech on relaxing laws against illegal immigrants, to ensure that they are legal citizens themselves? When's the last time on the news you heard of people with joints or illegal immigrants from mexico running around campus killing people????Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #114 March 13, 2009 Sure, and depending on the topic, I've seen you on the complete flip side of this debate. So this is debate for entertainment's sake only. Quote they grade easier those students with whom they most vehemently disagree, to avoid any sign of impropriety. RIIGGHHHT - those profs running around in terror Quote college is not some liberal indoctrination camp seems it would depend on each professor and how they handle their class - overall culture at a college would be college specific, so can't really say except on a case basis Quote That you're attempting to compare what happened to Nazi Germany is incredible fun - I believe you've run with tactic on occassion or other topics too Quote Why form an opinion at all? I don't know - why did you? Quote People would take insert any cause advocates here a lot more seriously if so many of those advocates would stop crying wolf so often or Quote People would take the occasional excitable professor a lot more seriously if so many of those advocates would stop crying wolf so often ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #115 March 13, 2009 QuoteQuoteShould she call the police on students who gave a speech on the legalization of drugs, to see if they have any illegal drugs in their possession on campus? Should she call the police on students who give a speech on relaxing laws against illegal immigrants, to ensure that they are legal citizens themselves? When's the last time on the news you heard of people with joints or illegal immigrants from mexico running around campus killing people???? Illegal drugs and illegal immigrants kill a LOT of people. Where have you been? If the law is to be upheld, then you should call the police for all illegal activity, and not just cherry-pick only one that you're most paranoid about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #116 March 13, 2009 Quote Sure, and depending on the topic, I've seen you on the complete flip side of this debate. So this is debate for entertainment's sake only. Which debate? Gun control? I've only taken one stance on the topic. I favor a system similar to the Swiss: stand down our active army and promote responsible gun ownership. If citizens want to keep a gun, but cannot afford to purchase a gun, allow one to be issued by the government. Such a system would be far more consistent with the US Constitution, as well as many state constitutions compared to what we have today. Of course, not many gun advocates support such a system because it emphasizes not only the right to keep and bear arms, but also the responsibility of defending the nation that recognizes that right. I just don't try to start a new thread on the topic each week. Quote Quote they grade easier those students with whom they most vehemently disagree, to avoid any sign of impropriety. RIIGGHHHT - those profs running around in terror I think you underestimate the power that students have with their professor evaluations. Those are taken quite seriously by university administrators. Furthermore, students can complain to department heads if they feel they are being graded unfairly relative to other students. The incentive for professors is to attain tenure and not be fired. In subjects for which the grading is largely subjective (i.e. most subjects outside of mathematics and science), it's difficult to make any sort of real effort on an assignment and receive less than a B. Quote Quote college is not some liberal indoctrination camp seems it would depend on each professor and how they handle their class - overall culture at a college would be college specific, so can't really say except on a case basis Fair enough. In 150+ credit hours at three different schools in two different states, I've never seen it. Quote Quote That you're attempting to compare what happened to Nazi Germany is incredible fun - I believe you've run with tactic on occassion or other topics too I actually did so recently, when the OP advocated genocide. You don't think there might be a little bit of a difference between that and this? I'm not sure it's a healthy sense of humor that can make light of the Holocaust. Quote Quote Why form an opinion at all? I don't know - why did you? Are you referring to my opinion that the most vocal gun advocates have overreacted, considering there hasn't been any evidence presented that the professor acted improperly? Whatever you say. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #117 March 13, 2009 Don't worry - have a piece of cake this weekend. It's very liberating. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #118 March 13, 2009 QuoteAre you referring to my opinion that the most vocal gun advocates have overreacted, considering there hasn't been any evidence presented that the professor acted improperly? The flip side of that coin: What about the possibility that professor Paula Anderson overreacted, considering there hasn't been any evidence presented that the student acted improperly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #119 March 13, 2009 Quote I think you'll find most professors do exactly the opposite; they grade easier those students with whom they most vehemently disagree, to avoid any sign of impropriety. There's far fewer negative consequences for a professor to inflate grades than to be perceived as being overly critical due to differing philosophical viewpoints. There's zero incentive to take a chance on the latter occurring. Contrary to what you would have everyone believe, college is not some liberal indoctrination camp where conservative ideology is willfully suppressed. That may be how it works in whatever fantasy world you live in, but reality is quite different. sorry, I've found professors to be among the most petty out there, and they certainly reward those who agree, and punish those who do not (esp poorly). Your's appears to be more fantasy than real. Many of them are quite intelligent, and quite confident in their beliefs. Those with tenure absolutely don't care. Those without - publishing is how you get tenure at a major university, not student evaluations. BTW, I've seen Marxists and John Birch type professors, even at Cal. It's not just a leftist problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #120 March 13, 2009 QuoteFair enough. In 150+ credit hours at three different schools in two different states, I've never seen it. Ahem. And 'ahem' again.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #121 March 14, 2009 QuoteQuoteAre you referring to my opinion that the most vocal gun advocates have overreacted, considering there hasn't been any evidence presented that the professor acted improperly? The flip side of that coin: What about the possibility that professor Paula Anderson overreacted, considering there hasn't been any evidence presented that the student acted improperly? Nor is there any reason to believe the student was treated in any way unfairly. Have you ever had a LEO ask you a question? Did you feel persecuted because of it?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #122 March 14, 2009 QuoteQuoteFair enough. In 150+ credit hours at three different schools in two different states, I've never seen it. Ahem. And 'ahem' again. Apparently you fail to see the difference between taking one class (anecdote) and several dozen (small data sample).Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainbo 0 #123 March 14, 2009 Actually I think 150 hrs and TWO institutions is too small a sample size. My experience has been quite different...Rainbo TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything "Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LyraM45 0 #124 March 14, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Should she call the police on students who gave a speech on the legalization of drugs, to see if they have any illegal drugs in their possession on campus? Should she call the police on students who give a speech on relaxing laws against illegal immigrants, to ensure that they are legal citizens themselves? When's the last time on the news you heard of people with joints or illegal immigrants from mexico running around campus killing people???? Illegal drugs and illegal immigrants kill a LOT of people. Where have you been? If the law is to be upheld, then you should call the police for all illegal activity, and not just cherry-pick only one that you're most paranoid about. You're comparing apples with oranges here. Yea, I am sure that illegal drugs and illegal immigrants kill a LOT of people. Nobody is denying that. But what we're talking about here was associated with life/culture on a college campus and the current events as such on college campuses. So my original statement stands-- it's (huge majority) not the illegal immigrants and stoner hippy kids running around killing people that you see on the news with campus violence. Statistical fact that is not up for much debate. Does that mean that there are no incidents involving this type? No. But makes the point why prof's are on their toes over one thing and not the other. Does that make it legal to cherry pick one thing over the other? No, but it's human nature to protect yourself and your students from things like gun violence that in recent years has become a huge problem on campuses; trumping things like kids sneaking off to the back parking lot of a dorm to smoke a joint and then eat a bunch of doritos. Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #125 March 14, 2009 QuoteActually I think 150 hrs and TWO institutions is too small a sample size. My experience has been quite different... That would be over 150 hours, and three institutions. It is a small sample size, as I previously stated. It is, however, beyond anecdotal example.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
