Questions for Republican Christians

[jcd11235 0]

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Maybe running the government more like a business, where people are held accountable and fired if they aren't producing, would be a possitive approach.

Like in an election?

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[FallingOsh 0]

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Maybe running the government more like a business, where people are held accountable and fired if they aren't producing, would be a possitive approach.

Like in an election?

Well, yeah, kinda.

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Stay positive and love your life.

[nerdgirl 0]

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Maybe it's also because just about any private enterprise (especially charities) operate with far less overhead and red-tape, and thus efficiently.

There have been a few notable exceptions to the notion that private contracting is more efficient:

(1) The CIA Inspector General found that a civilian employee costs the government an average of $126,500 annually including salary & benefits, while the average contract employee doing comparative work costs $250,000 annually. The IG’s findings were reported in the December 2007 House-Senate conference report on the fiscal 2008 Intelligence Authorization Bill.

A number of folks have been concerned less w/r/t pure monetary costs than the less tangible consequence of having a reported up to 70% of the National Clandestine Service filled by contractors. Average tenure of an intelligence analyst is less than 7 years – they take their TS/SCI’s and go make a lot more money.

(2) IRS collection by federal employees was found to be more cost effective than private sector.

(3) US Air Force Air Logistics Programmed Depot Maintenance (PDM) found privatization of repair activities on F-15, C-130, C-5 and C-17 aircraft was so inefficient and cost more than federal employees that WR-ALC 402d MXW reversed the decision and has been hiring since summer 2007.

(4) Even Eric Prince, former CEO, of Xe (nee Blackwater) acknowledged in the Q&A period of his Congressional testimony that there was no data supporting the perceived value to the taxpayer of contracting Blackwater versus employing federal workers in Iraq for private security.

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No it doesn't. Failed businesses fail...when the government fails (of which I'm sure you and I can agree on that) it doesn't reorganize, it doesn't file bankruptcy, it simply prints more money, and demands more taxes, consequences be damned.

Are you referring to Missile Defense, Future Combat Systems (76% over-run in one year alone), Joint Strike Fighter, the F/A-18 Navy fighter, or the two chemical demilitarization programs, or the Ground/Air Task-Oriented Radar (G/ATOR)? Sometimes cost alone should not be the determining factor, in my opinion.

While there are instances in which private companies do perform more efficiently, they are not _all_ instances and, perhaps, more importantly, there may be instances in which other factors are more important than lowest cost, e.g., civilian nuclear safety, air traffic control, nuclear submarine operation.

Too much government stifles innovation and competition; too little results in a variety of ills, ranging from “thalidomide” babies to failed states. The ‘trick’ is finding the right mix, figuring out which ones are better to be more conservative on (e.g., intelligence - on the side of federal), and creating flexible programs that can respond as situations and needs change.

/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[jerryzflies 0]

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Maybe it's also because just about any private enterprise (especially charities) operate with far less overhead and red-tape, and thus efficiently.

There have been a few notable exceptions to the notion that private contracting is more efficient:

Flight Service Stations have been notably less efficient since they were privatized by the FAA. AOPA has gone on at length about it.

If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical.

[Muenkel 0]

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Why is it that the more conservative one is in politicts and religion the more they complain about helping the poor through higher taxes?

There is a difference in being fiscally conservative and socially conservative. Granted it is common that a person who is 'conservative' is both but not always. A fiscal conservative would rather personally dictate how to use their private donations to help the poor rather than hand it to the gov't. to let it 'trickle down' to whom the gov't. deems it should go to.

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If Jesus were to appear today, do you think he would would be hanging out with Limbaugh or the homeless?

For me to answer this, I would have to presume I can think for Jesus. I would also have to presume that Jesus loves one more than the other. From what I have learned and believe about Jesus Christ is that he loves all souls unconditionally and equally. His mercy is there for all who want it, including the homeless.

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Would Jesus be in favor of universal health care or health care only for those that could afford insurance?

Once again, you're asking us to presume what Jesus would want. I guess quoting the Golden Rule would apply here. Jesus also said 'Give to Caeser what is Caeser's, give to God what is God's'. It is believed He's making it quite clear here who we answer to first...God. If anything that is gov't mandated is in direct opposition with the laws of God then there is something wrong with the gov't mandated law. The idea of universal health care is not necessarily what is wrong, it's the 'devil in the details' that pose the problem for many people. Forcing Christians to pay for medical procedures that goes directly against their religious beliefs is a prime example.

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Please feel free to quote any scripture (new testament) in your response.

The Beattitudes are always a good read.

_________________________________________
Chris

[TheAnvil 0]

What an interesting query...the inane assumptions therein are quite amusing in and of themselves.

One must wonder why Jesus would choose between Limbaugh and the homeless. The homeless that are there because of ill fortune or mental illness, I'm sure He would be caring for. With regards to the lazy fucks/parasites, check out St. Paul's opining of such folk in his second epistle to the Thessolonians.

Given the myriad examples of the healing of the sick throughout the Gospels, one wonders why you even bring up health care. However, that being said, a familiarity with the Gospels would show you that Jesus wasn't into government - he was into personal responsibility. Small wonder He's such an anathema to those who believe in the supremacy of the State (that's the democrats/commies/socialists - some might call all three synonymous). Saint Robert Bellarmine did a great bit of work on the relationship between the Church and State from a Church perspective - De Laicis contains much of it. Very good and forward thinking - especially for the time it was written. Pretty much pioneered the idea of individual freedom and popular sovereignty. Good stuff, in spite of some other stuff Bellarmine did with which I disagree.

One wonders how you can directly equate higher taxes with helping the poor. Have you bothered to read the budget or even skim it perchance? I should think not given such a statement.

I think the main reason you'll find conservatives and Christians against social programs is for fiscal purposes and for the fact that personal responsibility - as espoused by Jesus and many other Church figures - is a most admired and revered trait among that crowd. A belief that it's not the role of government to administer social services and that private institutions and religious organizations should bear that burden would also be grounds for such thinking.

Humorous. And sad. Another not-so-sly attempt to slight Christians and conservatives alike. Only those with an obvious misunderstanding of budget, religion, the Bible, and its associated history and teachings could concoct it. Read the budget, Bible and Bellarmine's writings. Skim the budget. And DEFINITELY skim Bellarmine - it's a bit wordy, even if interesting. Haven't cracked that in years (Bellarmine at any rate).

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[JohnRich 4]

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If Jesus were to appear today, do you think he would would be hanging out with Limbaugh or the homeless? Would Jesus be in favor of universal health care or health care only for those that could afford insurance?

Would Jesus be in favor of taking money from people against their will in order to provide for the homeless?

[billvon 3,176]

>Would Jesus be in favor of taking money from people against their will in order to
>provide for the homeless?

Matthew 19:

Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life? . . .All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?"

Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

Luke 16:

There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

“Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

[JohnRich 4]

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>Would Jesus be in favor of taking money from people against their will in order to
>provide for the homeless?

Matthew 19
Luke 16

Neither of those show Jesus TAKING money from the rich to feed the poor. He can encourage them to do so, and then do as much as he can for the poor with whatever he receives, but I don't believe that he would forcefully take from the rich for that purpose.

[TheAnvil 0]

From either of these, you deduce a divine endorsement of taxation by government for distribution, how, exactly? Both center on...personal responsibility .

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Coreece 190]

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Neither of those show Jesus TAKING money from the rich to feed the poor. He can encourage them to do so, and then do as much as he can for the poor with whatever he receives, but I don't believe that he would forcefully take from the rich for that purpose.

It's just another case of people turning Jesus into who they want him to be...in this case...Peter Pan.

Jesus said if you want to follow me, deny yourself...

nobody wants to hear that.

We like little Baby Genie Jebus better....

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[jcd11235 0]

Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

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[billvon 3,176]

>From either of these, you deduce a divine endorsement of taxation by
>government for distribution, how, exactly?

That would be from Matthew 22:

"Show Me the tax money."
So they brought Him a denarius.
And He said to them, “Whose image and inscription is this?”
They said to Him, “Caesar’s.”
And He said to them, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” When they had heard these words, they marveled, and left Him and went their way.

[dreamdancer 0]

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I don't believe that he would forcefully take from the rich for that purpose.

who knows? - he might (would certainly save them from an eternity of damnation if he did - sort of tough love)

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[dreamdancer 0]

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Again, giving is highly encouraged, but not mandatory.

sounds pretty mandatory to me...

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The tithe is that tenth of our income that we give to God, which enables Him to move on our behalf in the area of blessings. The Bible records numerous accounts of man tithing to God. God is the creator of everything that exists. He owns everything and we are simply stewards of what we have been entrusted with. The tithe principle is this; "He gives unto us, we give back to Him one-tenth of all that He has blessed us with."

Abraham tithed unto Melchizedek, Isaac tithed, His son Jacob and many others also even before the law was given. Many Christians do not tithe because they have been taught that they are not under the law, but under grace. While this is a true statement, God did not institute the tithe to bring us under the law, but to get blessings to His children. Abraham tithed before the law, and God blessed him supernaturally. We're under grace that we might establish the law; not turn from it. Jesus said that He didn't come to do away with the law, but to fulfill it. Because He fulfilled it, we are to establish it. His Words are forever settled in heaven, therefore we establish His Words upon the earth.

Matthew 5:17-19: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

TITHING ACCORDING TO THE LAW AS GIVEN BY MOSES

Leviticus 27:30 "And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD."

This scripture states that all the tithe, whether it be seed of the land, fruit of the tree, or one tenth of all that you earn, is holy unto the Lord. Deuteronomy 14:22-29 states that one-tenth of all that comes into your possession, belongs to God. This was God's plan to instruct His people as to the way of blessings that He had for them. God is a multiplier by nature, and He could not multiply that which was not entrusted to Him. When the children of Israel were obedient to give back to God that which was His, increase was guaranteed. Scripture states, It's better to be obedient than to sacrifice. When the children of Israel were obedient, blessings came; when they were disobedient, they had to sacrifice. Many Christians today are wanting God to honor the covenant that He has with His children, but disobedient children cannot receive the same reward as the obedient.

http://www.bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=161

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
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[TheAnvil 0]

Only for taxation. For redistribution via social programs, I think not. T'was not the role of government then, nor should it be now.

Bellarmine uses this verse in his treatise on the role of religion in government. Very nice stuff.

[:()]

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[turtlespeed 226]

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Why is it that the more conservative one is in politicts and religion the more they complain about helping the poor through higher taxes?

If Jesus were to appear today, do you think he would would be hanging out with Limbaugh or the homeless?

Would Jesus be in favor of universal health care or health care only for those that could afford insurance?

Please feel free to quote any scripture (new testament) in your response.

God helps those that help themselves.

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[wmw999 2,644]

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God helps those that help themselves

Ya know that's not in the Bible, don't you? Ben Franklin said it.

Nothing against hard work and benefiting from it, but Jesus was more into helping the poor and homeless.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[mnealtx 0]

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God helps those that help themselves

Ya know that's not in the Bible, don't you? Ben Franklin said it.

Nothing against hard work and benefiting from it, but Jesus was more into helping the poor and homeless.

Wendy W.

by voluntary charity and tithing, not by coercion

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[dreamdancer 0]

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God helps those that help themselves

Ya know that's not in the Bible, don't you? Ben Franklin said it.

Nothing against hard work and benefiting from it, but Jesus was more into helping the poor and homeless.

Wendy W.

by voluntary charity and tithing, not by coercion

isn't a tithe just another name for a tax?

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[JackC 0]

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by voluntary charity and tithing, not by coercion

isn't a tithe just another name for a tax?

Nah, tithing is voluntary. Of course, one day you'll be judged and sentenced if you don't volunteer, so you damn well better pay up.

Now tax is mandatory. Of course, one day you'll be judged and sentenced if you try and avoid that mandate, so you damn well better pay up.

See, totally different.

[mnealtx 0]

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by voluntary charity and tithing, not by coercion

isn't a tithe just another name for a tax?

Since there's no armbreakers to make sure you put an offering in the plate, that answer would be "no".

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Coreece 190]

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God helps those that help themselves.

God never said that in the Bible...I think it was Benjamin Franklin.....


EDIT

sorry wendy...I haven't been reading the posts efficiently today...I didn't notice you previously addressed this issue...

Nice Catch!

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[billvon 3,176]

>by voluntary charity and tithing, not by coercion

Matthew 22:

"Teacher, we know that You are true, and teach the way of God in truth; nor do You care about anyone, for You do not regard the person of men. Tell us, therefore, what do You think? Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?”
But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, “Why do you test Me, you hypocrites? Show Me the tax money.”
So they brought Him a denarius.
And He said to them, “Whose image and inscription is this?”
They said to Him, “Caesar’s.”
And He said to them, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”

[Amazon 7]

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>by voluntary charity and tithing, not by coercion

Matthew 22:

"Teacher, we know that You are true, and teach the way of God in truth; nor do You care about anyone, for You do not regard the person of men. Tell us, therefore, what do You think? Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?”
But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, “Why do you test Me, you hypocrites? Show Me the tax money.”
So they brought Him a denarius.
And He said to them, “Whose image and inscription is this?”
They said to Him, “Caesar’s.”
And He said to them, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”

Interesting how so many of the professed christians..are not willing to render Caesar's things to Caesar.. even though THE BOOK... THE WORD OF GOD..... tells them to.