Questions for Republican Christians

[jclalor 12]

Why is it that the more conservative one is in politicts and religion the more they complain about helping the poor through higher taxes?

If Jesus were to appear today, do you think he would would be hanging out with Limbaugh or the homeless?

Would Jesus be in favor of universal health care or health care only for those that could afford insurance?

Please feel free to quote any scripture (new testament) in your response.

[rhys 0]

Damn good question,

Unfortunately your philosiphy is likely to be considered un-acceptable by the conservative, republican, christians by your spelling mistakes alone.

However,

I would like to see a rational answer to that question as I do not belive there is one...

?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Andy9o8 3]

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philosiphy
spelling mistakes

[TankBuster 0]

I am headed to a prayer breakfast soon, but let me take a short stab at it, and maybe give some food for thought.
(1) Giving to and helping the poor is at the heart of Chrisitanity. I believe that it is much more efficiently done at the local level, and at the church level. In other words, if we take those dollars and go out into the community with them, we can help more people.
(2) The government's idea of helping the poor more often keeps them poor, and provides no incentive to make it on their own. I've seen people's lives turn around because of the local intervention.


I gotta run, and there is more to say, but just consider this - just because conservatives are against higher taxes and we get blasted for not being "compasionate" - it's not necessarily true. I for one, would rather I decide where my charity dollars go, not some bureaucrat. It's that whole freedom thang.

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[shropshire 0]

Right wing Christian is an oxyMORON

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Gawain 0]

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Why is it that the more conservative one is in politicts and religion the more they complain about helping the poor through higher taxes?

This does not apply to me exactly, but being a conservative (and not being an "overt" Catholic), the answers touch the following:

Maybe it's because many of these programs do not offer a "hand-up", and foster generations of welfare-families. Maybe it's also because just about any private enterprise (especially charities) operate with far less overhead and red-tape, and thus efficiently. Maybe because it is not a government mandate to tax to "help" the poor. Maybe because a conservative Christian does not want to see their money go to programs which they do not believe in (prime example is international funding of abortion, or government sponsored condom hand-outs). Maybe it's not the government's money in the first place.

Government welfare programs, while mildly reformed over the years, do not do enough to cut the umbilical cord. This country was not founded to be a welfare state.

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If Jesus were to appear today, do you think he would would be hanging out with Limbaugh or the homeless?

The relevant question is do you think Jesus would be demanding a handout (from a stance of entitlement) or reinstilling a sense of purpose and faith in those individuals to learn how to fish and care for themselves again?

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Would Jesus be in favor of universal health care or health care only for those that could afford insurance?

The question is moot. Health care is not a right. It's a responsibility. Urgent care is available to everyone. If you eat McDonald's three times a day, the taxpayer should not be expected to cover the bill for all the health problems that will stemm from that lifestyle. Doctors can't fix stupid behavior.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Skyrad 0]

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Right wing Christian is an oxyMORON

Gott mit uns?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[shropshire 0]

Quite .... not that we're comparing their Right with Hitler et al. Heaven forbid

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[TankBuster 0]

(3) I think Jesus was about personal relationships and personal sacrifice and service. I believe it's lazy and it's a cop out to hand money over to the federal government, walk away, and say "good, they'll handle it."

Most conservatives I know would turn your question around on you. Why, given the inefficiency and corruption of the federal government, do you want them in charge of helping the poor? How can you be so heartless?

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[jcd11235 0]

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Why, given the inefficiency and corruption of the federal government, do you want them in charge of helping the poor?

There's no reason to believe the government is any less efficient than private industry or any more corrupt than churches.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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There's no reason to believe the government is any less efficient than private industry.

Other than history.

[jcd11235 0]

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There's no reason to believe the government is any less efficient than private industry.

Other than history.

I don't think anyone with an objective understanding of history would agree with you. History offers plenty of examples of church corruption and inefficiency in private industry.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Gawain 0]

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There's no reason to believe the government is any less efficient than private industry.

Other than history.

I don't think anyone with an objective understanding of history would agree with you. History offers plenty of examples of church corruption and inefficiency in private industry.

Yeah...because private industry is wrought with companies that are run as poorly as the DMV...

Aside from failed businesses, name some of these historical events of private industry.

I only need to name one on the government side to make the case, and it's: Congress.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[dreamdancer 0]

isn't there a 10% christian titheing structure somewhere in the bible?

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[dreamdancer 0]

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Aside from failed businesses, name some of these historical events of private industry.

the titanic!

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[FallingOsh 0]

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isn't there a 10% christian titheing structure somewhere in the bible?

Yes, there is. It's used to run the Church and helps with the outreach programs.

Before anyone goes screaming 'AH-HA,' the tithe is 10% for everyone. The well off don't pay 40% while the poor pay none. The members of the church have a direct say and participation in how the money is spent. A group of elitists 1000 miles away doesn't make the decisions. Nobody, to my knowledge, has been removed from a church or arrested for not tithing. Some tithe none. Some tithe the 10% plus thousands upon thousands to support mission trips and community projects. Again, its a focus on (drum roll) personal responsibility.

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Stay positive and love your life.

[dreamdancer 0]

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The well off don't pay 40% while the poor pay none.

so, you take from the poor? (a minimum of 10% you say)

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[TankBuster 0]

Again, giving is highly encouraged, but not mandatory. Many people of very little means still give 10% or even more - willingly. It gives them great joy to know that they are helping someone. And very often those are the folks working and serving in some capacity more so than those who can afford more.

The question was not about church giving though, it's about why most conservatives don't want to pay (more) income tax. "Not helping the poor" is a false choice, and just one of the arguments used to guilt people into accepting a larger tax bill.

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[jcd11235 0]

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Yeah...because private industry is wrought with companies that are run as poorly as the DMV...

Yes, it sure is. I long for the day when the property manager of the apartment complex in which I live makes it as quick and easy to make my rent payment as it is for me to renew the tags on my vehicle.

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Aside from failed businesses, name some of these historical events of private industry.

So, you want to ignore inefficiently run businesses and business failures in order to demonstrate that private industry is more efficient than government? That's like saying that, except for all real numbers less than or equal to zero, all real numbers are positive, therefor, all real numbers are positive. Your argument lacks logical consistency.

As for examples of private inefficiency, try Enron, GM, Chrysler, most of the major airlines in the US, Arthur Anderson, to name just a few.

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I only need to name one on the government side to make the case, and it's: Congress.

Attempting to draw universal conclusions about government based on unsubstantiated claims of the inefficiency of Congress demonstrates that you are either lacking in understanding of basic logic or are intentionally making a disingenuous argument. Which is it?

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Gawain 0]

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Yeah...because private industry is wrought with companies that are run as poorly as the DMV...

Yes, it sure is. I long for the day when the property manager of the apartment complex in which I live makes it as quick and easy to make my rent payment as it is for me to renew the tags on my vehicle.

Why is that his responsibility? You use a bank right? Chances are, you can set up an automatic bill pay with them and you never have to walk to your apartment office again. I haven't written a check for regular expenses in years.

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Aside from failed businesses, name some of these historical events of private industry.

So, you want to ignore inefficiently run businesses and business failures in order to demonstrate that private industry is more efficient than government? That's like saying that, except for all real numbers less than or equal to zero, all real numbers are positive, therefor, all real numbers are positive. Your argument lacks logical consistency.

No it doesn't. Failed businesses fail...when the government fails (of which I'm sure you and I can agree on that) it doesn't reorganize, it doesn't file bankruptcy, it simply prints more money, and demands more taxes, consequences be damned. "Real" companies have to work to make their revenue. They can't pass a bill.

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As for examples of private inefficiency, try Enron, GM, Chrysler, most of the major airlines in the US, Arthur Anderson, to name just a few.

So, you've named a dozen or so out of millions out there. There is only one federal government. Even the USPS operates more efficiently. The Senate had to privatize their cafeteria because they couldn't run it.

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I only need to name one on the government side to make the case, and it's: Congress.

Attempting to draw universal conclusions about government based on unsubstantiated claims of the inefficiency of Congress demonstrates that you are either lacking in understanding of basic logic or are intentionally making a disingenuous argument. Which is it?

Do you realize what you just wrote? That's like saying, "The government wouldn't lie to us."

I work for the government. Arguably the most efficient and inefficient at the same time...even at its best (during my wound recovery) there were private enterprises designed to help the troops that ran circles around the bureaucracy.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[FallingOsh 0]

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The well off don't pay 40% while the poor pay none.

so, you take from the poor? (a minimum of 10% you say)

There's the issue of the whole discussion right there. Taking is different than giving. If someone chooses to give then that's their choice. The church doesn't demand anything.

Like Tank said, the OP was a question of not wanting the government to take more under the guise of helping the needy. Tithing is a different discussion, but a valid one.

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Stay positive and love your life.

[jcd11235 0]

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Yeah...because private industry is wrought with companies that are run as poorly as the DMV...

Yes, it sure is. I long for the day when the property manager of the apartment complex in which I live makes it as quick and easy to make my rent payment as it is for me to renew the tags on my vehicle.

Why is that his responsibility? You use a bank right? Chances are, you can set up an automatic bill pay with them and you never have to walk to your apartment office again. I haven't written a check for regular expenses in years.

You were the one that used DMV as an example of government inefficiency. I just offered an example of a private company that cannot make a task that must be done 12x more often as efficient as the DMV makes renewing my vehicle's tags.

Who said anything about writing a check to pay rent? I didn't.

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Aside from failed businesses, name some of these historical events of private industry.

So, you want to ignore inefficiently run businesses and business failures in order to demonstrate that private industry is more efficient than government? That's like saying that, except for all real numbers less than or equal to zero, all real numbers are positive, therefor, all real numbers are positive. Your argument lacks logical consistency.

No it doesn't.

If you believe that, then you lack an understanding of logic.

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Failed businesses fail.

Thank you, Captain Obvious. Next thing, you'll claim that spherical objects are spherical.

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when the government fails (of which I'm sure you and I can agree on that)

Agree on what, exactly?

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it doesn't reorganize, it doesn't file bankruptcy, it simply prints more money, and demands more taxes, consequences be damned.

Certainly not that alarmist bit of Chicken Little BS.

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"Real" companies have to work to make their revenue.

Like Enron did? Whatever you say.

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They can't pass a bill.

Sometimes, that's exactly what they do. They pass a bill right on to the taxpayers, socializing their losses, while keeping their profits privatized. Other times, the companies bribe lobby Congressmen to sponsor bills to provide other artificial advantages for themselves.

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As for examples of private inefficiency, try Enron, GM, Chrysler, most of the major airlines in the US, Arthur Anderson, to name just a few.

So, you've named a dozen or so out of millions out there.

Yes, I only listed a few, because I didn't feel like listing all of the millions of failed private businesses.

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There is only one federal government. Even the USPS operates more efficiently.

You do realize that the USPS is an independent agency of the US government, right? It's a part of the Executive branch.

Are clocks also more efficient than timepieces? Does spaghetti taste better than food? Is soccer more popular than sports?

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The Senate had to privatize their cafeteria because they couldn't run it.

One hundred lawmakers not being able to efficiently manage a small cafeteria is indication of what, exactly? I suspect Apple, Inc.'s BOD would not be able to efficiently run a small neighborhood lemonade stand, either, but that would not be an indication that Apple is a failure as a company.

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I only need to name one on the government side to make the case, and it's: Congress.

Attempting to draw universal conclusions about government based on unsubstantiated claims of the inefficiency of Congress demonstrates that you are either lacking in understanding of basic logic or are intentionally making a disingenuous argument. Which is it?

Do you realize what you just wrote? That's like saying, "The government wouldn't lie to us."

It's nothing like saying that, any more than it is like saying "Mars is green."

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I work for the government. Arguably the most efficient and inefficient at the same time...even at its best (during my wound recovery) there were private enterprises designed to help the troops that ran circles around the bureaucracy.

Are you suggesting that bureaucracy exists only in government? Try working in private industry for awhile, and you'll see that it exists there as well.

Sometimes government operates efficiently; sometimes government operates inefficiently. Sometimes private companies operate efficiently; sometimes private companies operate inefficiently. Neither the public sector nor the private sector has the market cornered on operational efficiency. Anyone who claims otherwise doesn't know WTF they're talking about.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Gawain 0]

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You were the one that used DMV as an example of government inefficiency. I just offered an example of a private company that cannot make a task that must be done 12x more often as efficient as the DMV makes renewing my vehicle's tags.

Yes it can, simply pay it annually.

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There is only one federal government. Even the USPS operates more efficiently.

You do realize that the USPS is an independent agency of the US government, right? It's a part of the Executive branch.

...and it operates with zero tax dollars.

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The Senate had to privatize their cafeteria because they couldn't run it.

One hundred lawmakers not being able to efficiently manage a small cafeteria is indication of what, exactly? I suspect Apple, Inc.'s BOD would not be able to efficiently run a small neighborhood lemonade stand, either, but that would not be an indication that Apple is a failure as a company.

I beg to differ. People that know how to run companies can run a restaurant. Lawyers don't normally fit that bill.

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I work for the government. Arguably the most efficient and inefficient at the same time...even at its best (during my wound recovery) there were private enterprises designed to help the troops that ran circles around the bureaucracy.

Are you suggesting that bureaucracy exists only in government? Try working in private industry for awhile, and you'll see that it exists there as well.

I have 10 years experience with a very large company (highly regulated in many of its markets, Fortune top 20) and the factors that hindered my job had little to do with the company (it was a telephone company), but with government intervention/regulation.

I agree that there are inefficiencies to be found anywhere you choose to look. However, the sheer waste of the federal government takes the cake on a scale that private industry never imagined. The past six months alone make the case.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[jcd11235 0]

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Yes it can, simply pay it annually.

Once again, you speak about that which you know nothing about.

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There is only one federal government. Even the USPS operates more efficiently.

You do realize that the USPS is an independent agency of the US government, right? It's a part of the Executive branch.

...and it operates with zero tax dollars.

[FallingOsh 0]

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Furthermore, the government is not a business. Running it like one is a recipe for disaster.

That could be an interesting discussion, now that the conversation has zero to do with the OP.

I would claim many aspects of the government are run like a business. Others, not so much. I would also say the current government is dangerously close to disaster. Maybe running the government more like a business, where people are held accountable and fired if they aren't producing, would be a possitive approach.

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Stay positive and love your life.