quade 4 #1 March 4, 2009 PLEASE, before answering the poll watch this piece of video otherwise you may not understand what I'm talking about. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29496421/quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #2 March 4, 2009 I can't answer that question since the "end times" is a Christian concept and I am not a Christian. The change to Socialism is just a change and my opinion is I don't like it. Do I think the world will end if the US were to become a Socialist state? I don't think so. It would just be something I would have to tolerate or move to a different country. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #3 March 4, 2009 America wont become a Real Socialist state... it's moving every so slightly left of where it was but that's still further right than anywhere else on Earth - Jezzzz (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #4 March 4, 2009 Yeah, but that wasn't the question. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #5 March 4, 2009 WOW, I want to bang Rachel, when she wares her glasses. yumOh and WTF I thought Muslims were nuts. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #6 March 4, 2009 So the anti-Christ doesn't appear until after the rapture; that takes a load off my mind. Hey, anyone seen Chuteless lately? I haven't seen him around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skwrl 56 #7 March 4, 2009 Ummm.... Christ's teachings on economics were far closer to socialism than they were to capitalism. Jesus sought out the poor, particularly those enslaved to debt and his message was meant specifically for them as well as a criticism of the wealthy elites. "Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors", leaps to mind. Some popular Jesus stories have economic themes; the young ruler who seeks eternal life in Luke... which leads Jesus to encourage him to 'sell all you own and give to the poor.' Another is the Good Samaritan, in which an unlikely foreigner becomes the hero, pays money out of his own pocket to care for the injured Israelite he finds on the road-side... The way we think of wealth today not really connected to Jesus' message because we assume that wealth in the property of the individual without connection to a larger community. Luke 12 tells a story of Jesus in which he tells a parable of a successful businessman. He is so successful that he cannot find enough room for all his harvest. So he goes on an expansive building project to protect his wealth and plan an early retirement. In our terms, he's a capitalist success story. He did what we see people do with their wealth all the time, expanded, invested, and used for his own benefit. Jesus told a success story for today... except that Jesus does not let it stay a success story. He says God calls this man a fool. He has only considered himself and the use of his wealth for his own benefit. Luke 16 contains the story of Lazarus and the rich man. The rich man eats wonderful food and dresses in the finest clothes. We are not told that he was a bad guy. Lazarus sits outside of his gates and waits for the scraps from his table. Both men die. The rich man lands in torment and Lazarus at Abraham's side. The rich man's sin, as far as I can tell, was willful ignorance of the suffering of the poor. Jesus urged his disciples to think of wealth in terms of the community as opposed to the individual. Wealth was a tool for communal good instead of individual right or good. I think Matthew 25 fits into this ethic: salvation is given to those who have fed the hungry and clothed the naked. So, I'm going with "no." <-- agnostic.Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #8 March 4, 2009 It was, in reply to your 2nd paragraph. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #9 March 4, 2009 QuoteDo I think the world will end if the US were to become a Socialist state? the us is already a socialist state (who pays for the police, the army, the bankers?) what you need now is a socialist health servicestay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #10 March 4, 2009 QuoteQuoteDo I think the world will end if the US were to become a Socialist state? the us is already a socialist state (who pays for the police, the army, the bankers?) what you need now is a socialist health service DUUUUUUDE...you just got about a dozen right wingers on here doing Linda Blairs head spinning routine... in their Red States Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #11 March 4, 2009 still true thoughstay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skwrl 56 #12 March 4, 2009 No, you've got it all wrong. In the US, we socialize risks and privatize profits.Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #13 March 4, 2009 that seems very strange - why not socialise your health service instead (a much better plan)stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skwrl 56 #14 March 4, 2009 What I posted ("socialize risk/privatize profits") was sort of a joke referring to the various bailout programs under both the Bush and Obama administrations... Like all jokes, it has a certain element of truth to it, but.... As for socializing health care, the reasons are incredibly complex, but my guess is that any health care reform we see in the next few years will look like the Massachusetts model - mandatory universal health insurance with government-sponsored insurers for those who can't afford insurance otherwise. Unfortunately, it doesn't address the real problem with health care, which is increasing costs. The increasing costs come from a combo plate of the demand for the highest possible quality of health care coupled with the increasing cost of providing that care. (For those who thought I was going to blame the evil pharma companies, the cost of drugs, both patented and generic, OTC and prescription, is 10% of the total cost of healthcare - but it tends to be very visible to people because often a large chunk - if not all - is paid by the patient). BTW, I an not saying the Mass model is great (or horrible), but I am guessing where it is all going.Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SivaGanesha 2 #15 March 4, 2009 QuoteI think Matthew 25 fits into this ethic: salvation is given to those who have fed the hungry and clothed the naked. The problem with this is that I have far too logical and rational a mind to be able to buy this. To be in a position to "feed the hungry and clothe the naked", and hence get into heaven according to this theory, one needs to have accumulated some personal wealth in the first place. Jesus' advice offers no indication when one should attempt to acquire personal wealth in order to be able to give it to the poor versus when it is time to give what one has accumulated to the poor. Someone who focuses solely on feeding the hungry and clothing the naked probably isn't going to find themselves in a position to do so (unless they have a lot of inherited wealth)--although they may (and often do) demand that third parties feed the hungry and clothe the naked. It's not practical advice, as compassionate though it may sound, which is why I don't take it very seriously."It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skwrl 56 #16 March 5, 2009 Oh, I agree 100%. Christ wouldn't agree, but that's a different issue. You're not the first person to have pointed that little logical conundrum out. However, if you read it in the context of the rest of the Synoptic Gospels (Matt., Mark, Luke) you start to realize that Jesus wasn't seeing that as a problem since the arrival of the Son of Man (note - distinct from Jesus) was going to happen at any moment back then ("this generation shall not pass..., etc., which was retconned to mean something other than what it says later on). In that context, your conundrum was a non-issue. For the time being, be as "lillies in the field" (if you have nothing) and give it all to the poor (if you have stuff). Since the Son of Man was due to arrive at any moment, it wouldn't require wealth to be created....Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #17 March 6, 2009 Didn't the early Christians live together in what were basically communes? So does that mean the end of the world already happened? Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #18 March 6, 2009 QuoteDidn't the early Christians live together in what were basically communes? So does that mean the end of the world already happened? Funny you should mention that. There actually is a group of people that believe the battle of Armageddon was fought c100 AD and that all of this is the aftermath.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
