What kind of revolution appeals most to you?

[jcd11235 0]

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Hmmm. self Government regulation was actually working great! ...til the Clinton administration decided to push for the subprime loans to help the lower class out signed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. Ticking time bomb and look where we are!

There, I fixed your post so that it actually reflects reality.

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I still maintain from a fiscal standpoint, the left has theories that would make the cat in the hat giggle.

If the Republicans are so fiscally responsible, why is it that Carter and Clinton both performed better than any Republican since Nixon (inclusive) with respect to increasing government revenue at a rate that exceeds increases in government spending?

Who was the last Republican president to preside over four consecutive years each with higher government revenues than expenditures? If the Republican party is so fiscally responsible, why do they refuse to live within their means even when given opportunity to do so?

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[marks2065 0]

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For the record, I don't really want to see all of the Republicans killed off.

Thanks for clarifying that!

No problem. I think they each should get a chance in a reeducation camp first.

They could be subjected to such horrible tortures as Mathematics, Biology, and Civics until they see the error of their ways.

and I would give the left lessons in paying your own way, hard work and i can spend my money how I want

I've made a 6 figure income for the last 20 years, work hard, pay MY own way, paid off my house, pay my taxes without whining, have never been unemployed since leaving school, and consider myself left of center

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well good, then you can pay for the welfare programs that the left wants to force on us and leave me out of it.

[pirana 0]

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I've made a 6 figure income for the last 20 years, work hard, pay MY own way, paid off my house, pay my taxes without whining, have never been unemployed since leaving school, and consider myself left of center

I've made a 7 figure income, pissed it all away on drugs, alcohol, fast cars and other narcotic pasttimes and still hate the idea of supporting other people on account of their lack of intelligence and/or responsibility.

(We are supposed to include the cents columns in that income figuring thing, right?)

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[BDashe 0]

from your other golden boy:

In response to criticism of his signing the bill when President, Bill Clinton said in 2008:

"I don't see that signing that bill had anything to do with the current crisis. Indeed, one of the things that has helped stabilize the current situation as much as it has is the purchase of Merrill Lynch by Bank of America, which was much smoother than it would have been if I hadn't signed that bill ... "

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983

[billvon 3,176]

>well good, then you can pay for the welfare programs that the left
>wants to force on us and leave me out of it.

Sure. You pay for the wars the right forced on us and we'll call it even.

[BDashe 0]

So bill, just a hypothetical- You're president on Sept. 11th. The nation is begging you to retaliate, we know where a lot of the bad guys are. What do you do?

I will admit, there are many things I would have done differently than Bush/Cheney from the war standpoint and where our military presence was directed, ultimately however action needed to be taken. We absolutley had to go screw some peoples' universe up that were responsible for it.

Or do you really just sit back and say "Thank you sir, may I please have another?"

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983

[billvon 3,176]

>You're president on Sept. 11th. The nation is begging you to retaliate,
>we know where a lot of the bad guys are. What do you do?

Find the people who did it, and imprison or kill them. Either one is OK.

[marks2065 0]

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>well good, then you can pay for the welfare programs that the left
>wants to force on us and leave me out of it.

Sure. You pay for the wars the right forced on us and we'll call it even.

sounds good Obama already passed bush's spending and he has 3 years 11 months left.

[jcd11235 0]

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from your other golden boy:

In response to criticism of his signing the bill when President, Bill Clinton said in 2008:

"I don't see that signing that bill had anything to do with the current crisis. Indeed, one of the things that has helped stabilize the current situation as much as it has is the purchase of Merrill Lynch by Bank of America, which was much smoother than it would have been if I hadn't signed that bill ... "

Strictly speaking, signing the bill didn't have anything to do with the current situation, because the bill passed by a veto proof margin. I disagree with the former president about the bill helping to stabilize the current situation.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[lawrocket 3]

Um - deregulation happens because regulation "fails.". Regulation happens because deregulation "fails."

Many describe the present as a "market failure." Why? Some like me call it a "market correction.". A failure? Or a learning event.

Example - my son was learning how to walk. He started doing pretty well and I decided to let go and see how he flew without my regulating it. Hd did great! About a week after deregulation he was doing really well. Then fell right onto a sharp corner of a wall and got really hurt.

I had some choices: I could coddle him and decide that he won't be walking on his own anymore since we saw what letting him do it alone did. I coul have simply said that he is learning and as with anything it will fail from time to time and encourage him to try again (the heartless libertarian free market response.)

Well, the kids does pretty well on his two feet. Sure, had I bound him up he would have never gotten hurt. I just swe pain and failure as opportunities and learning events.


And I am of the opinion that FDR's New Deal PROLONGED the Depression. Check 1937. Shit satyed shitty throughout. But, he sure got lots of votes because he blamed the wealthy and corporations. Why do something to bring people up? That's way harder than bringing everyone else down.

Re positive v negativr libert

Since when did freedom from interference become a "negative" that is mutually exclusive from freedom to do what you want (positive.)

I will put it this way. As I understand it, negative freedom is like that to be left alone. Note - people who leave others alone do zero harm to anybody because it necessairly means leaving others alone.

Thus, they deny nobody anything. I view "opportunity" differently from you. Understanding humaj nature, "opportunity" is no good unless you can actually profit.

Freedom of opportunity? Hell yeah! We on the right dig it. The left? They love the opportunity ti make you a better person.

What opportunity do I want? To make you a buck. To do that, you need to have a buck and I need to make sure you get your money's worth.

That's opportunity. The opportunity to take your money? No. That interferes with the negative.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[jcd11235 0]

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Example - my son was learning how to walk. He started doing pretty well and I decided to let go and see how he flew without my regulating it. Hd did great! About a week after deregulation he was doing really well. Then fell right onto a sharp corner of a wall and got really hurt.

I had some choices: I could coddle him and decide that he won't be walking on his own anymore since we saw what letting him do it alone did. I coul have simply said that he is learning and as with anything it will fail from time to time and encourage him to try again (the heartless libertarian free market response.)

Well, the kids does pretty well on his two feet. Sure, had I bound him up he would have never gotten hurt. I just swe pain and failure as opportunities and learning events.

At best, that could be considered a bad analogy. The floor/ground is analogous to a regulation based safety net. There is a limit to how far he can fall. Would you have been willing to allow your son to try to learn to walk, unassisted, while on a ledge at the top of a skyscraper?

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And I am of the opinion that FDR's New Deal PROLONGED the Depression.

Pretty surprising opinion, coming from someone who once suggested the need for a Secretary of History in the President's cabinet.

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Re positive v negativr libert

Since when did freedom from interference become a "negative" that is mutually exclusive from freedom to do what you want (positive.)

I didn't create the adjectives, I just used them as they apply to the two different philosophies of liberty.

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Freedom of opportunity? Hell yeah! We on the right dig it. The left? They love the opportunity ti make you a better person.

An example: One who supports positive liberty might believe everyone that everyone has a right to receive an education, and thus support compulsory education, funded by taxes, which is diametrically opposed to the concept of negative liberty. OTOH, the supporter of negative liberty opposes taxes to pay for education for society, believing people are only entitled to the education that they can afford. They believe being forced to surrender their property (i.e. money for taxes) violates their liberty.

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What opportunity do I want? To make you a buck. To do that, you need to have a buck and I need to make sure you get your money's worth.

In practice, all you need to do is make me believe that I'll get my money's worth long enough for me to exchange my money for your goods/services. That end can be accomplished via providing a good/service actually of quality appropriate to the price, or that can be accomplished by providing a well marketed good/service that is portrayed as having appropriate value, but does not. However, since the consumer won't discover the lack of real value until they have exchanged money for the product, the seller need not be concerned about the lack of quality.

As long as the players in a free market lack perfect information, it won't work as described by Mr. Smith.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[dreamdancer 0]

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It was supposed to be a simple matter for the masses to take over or "seize" the physical infrastructure of industrial capitalism--the "means of production"--and start putting it to work for the common good. But much of the means of production has fled overseas--to China, for example, that bastion of authoritarian capitalism. When we look around our increasingly shuttered landscape and survey the ruins of finance capitalism, we see bank upon bank, realty and mortgage companies, title companies, insurance companies, credit-rating agencies and call centers, but not enough enterprises making anything we could actually use, like food or pharmaceuticals. In recent years, capitalism has become increasingly and almost mystically abstract. Outside manufacturing and the service sector, fewer and fewer people could explain to their children what they did for a living. The brightest students went into finance, not physics. The biggest urban buildings housed cubicles and computer screens, not assembly lines, laboratories, studios or classrooms. Even our flagship industry, manufacturing autos, would require major retooling to make something we could use--not more cars, let alone more SUVs, but more windmills, buses and trains.

http://www.alternet.org/workplace/130365/if_we_are_in_the_death_spiral_of_capitalism%2C_can_we_start_using_the_%22s%22_word_/

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