Mayor Rips FoxNews Anchor a New Asshole

[Andy9o8 3]

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I like THIS response.

I'm not all that sure he's wrong. Those who know me well are long past bored hearing me rail about how suck-ass the US auto-makers' vehicles are compared to the non-US-made vehicles, by virtually every metric of quality. The US companies have had since the 1973 oil crisis to get it right, but even now, a generation later, they're still embarrassingly anemic at best. BUT - the fault for that is principally that of management.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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At this point it's moot. The Big 3 can't sustain those figures. Classic case of a union that cooked the golden goose.

Just a quick question:

Who agreed to those union demands?

[Andy9o8 3]

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At this point it's moot. The Big 3 can't sustain those figures. Classic case of a union that cooked the golden goose.

Just a quick question:
Who agreed to those union demands?

And another quick question: Who approved all the shitty product designs for the past 30 years, while Honda, Nissan, Toyota, VW, Volvo and Saab just kept getting better and better?

Hint: Same answer to both questions.

[airdvr 210]

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At this point it's moot. The Big 3 can't sustain those figures. Classic case of a union that cooked the golden goose.

Just a quick question:

Who agreed to those union demands?

Chicken and the egg here, with one difference. The egg is holding a gun to the chicken's head.

They agreed under threats of massive strikes time and again. Not a good set of options: cave to union demands or lose big money. Ever notice how the UAW has the contracts set up so no two ever expire at the same time? They get to threaten Chrysler all the while knowing Ford is next, and will give them what Chrysler did and then some. On and on ad infinitem.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[airdvr 210]

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And another quick question: Who approved all the shitty product designs for the past 30 years, while Honda, Nissan, Toyota, VW, Volvo and Saab just kept getting better and better?

True. Perhaps under the financial constraints laid at their door by the UAW they might have been forced to cut design corners to stay competitive?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[1969912 0]

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At this point it's moot. The Big 3 can't sustain those figures. Classic case of a union that cooked the golden goose.

Just a quick question:

Who agreed to those union demands?

Chicken and the egg here, with one difference. The egg is holding a gun to the chicken's head.

They agreed under threats of massive strikes time and again. Not a good set of options: cave to union demands or lose big money. Ever notice how the UAW has the contracts set up so no two ever expire at the same time? They get to threaten Chrysler all the while knowing Ford is next, and will give them what Chrysler did and then some. On and on ad infinitem.

We need Capt. Kallend here to say it's ALL management's fault

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[Andy9o8 3]

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And another quick question: Who approved all the shitty product designs for the past 30 years, while Honda, Nissan, Toyota, VW, Volvo and Saab just kept getting better and better?

True. Perhaps under the financial constraints laid at their door by the UAW they might have been forced to cut design corners to stay competitive?

You'll have to prove that one.

[billvon 3,162]

>The egg is holding a gun to the chicken's head.

And the chicken has an explosive vest that he's threatening to detonate.

Both the unions and management are to blame here; both can destroy the other. At times it seems like that is their primary goal.

[lawrocket 3]

Unions - exempt from the Sherman Antitrust Act.

Corporations - subject to Sherman Antitrust Act.

I'm not really sure how many people really comprehend the issues faced with one side being authorized to act in an anticompetitive manner when the other side must avoid evem the appearance of it. In a very real sense, the automakers face monopoly pricing for workers. Either pay the price or go outta business.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 3,162]

>Unions - exempt from the Sherman Antitrust Act.
>Corporations - subject to Sherman Antitrust Act.

Corporations - able to hire and fire workers.
Unions - not able to hire and fire workers.

Corporations - able to make decisions that will result in greater or lesser employment within their company.
Unions - not able to make such decisions.

>In a very real sense, the automakers face monopoly pricing for workers.

Yep. And in a very real sense, the automakers have the final say over what happens at their companies.

[airdvr 210]

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Corporations - able to hire and fire workers.

Haven't been around many union shops have you.

Have to agree with the rest of your post. Both share blame in their current situation. But the OP posted a vid showing the Honorable Pro Union Mayor demonstrating a typical conversation with a union. He thought the mayor ripped the anchor. I saw something completely different.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[SkyDekker 1,465]

I am about as anti union as you can get. I have been through bargaining sessions, CBA negotiations and have managed a unionized workforce.

However I still feel you can't just blame the union for this. Their job is to get as much as possible for their members. management's job is to keep the shareholders, stakeholders and the company in mind.

I feel management has failed significantly more in their duties. The egg didn't have a gun to the chickens head, they are both operating under mutual destruction.

In my opinion, management didn't cave because of what a strike would do to company profits. They caved because of what a strike would do to their bonusses.

[lawrocket 3]

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>Unions - exempt from the Sherman Antitrust Act.
>Corporations - subject to Sherman Antitrust Act.

Corporations - able to hire and fire workers.
Unions - not able to hire and fire workers.

Corporations - able to make decisions that will result in greater or lesser employment within their company.
Unions - not able to make such decisions.

>In a very real sense, the automakers face monopoly pricing for workers.

Yep. And in a very real sense, the automakers have the final say over what happens at their companies.

Take a look at this case: Hunt v. Crumboch 325 U.S. 821 (1945).

There, Hunt operated a trucking business and fought unionization. He continued trying to operate the business while its truckers and loaders picketed. Let's just say that this was the "lead pipe" days and in the continuing business a union guy was killed. A partner of the business was acquitted, but the union decided that payback was theirs.

They decided to run him outta business as payback. That's it. No other reason than they hated him. Since all the shippers had agreements only to use union labor, his business dried up. Eventually, Hunt was willign to allow unionization. The union refused to allow unionization now. The union refused to allow union workers to work there. He was run out of business.

Said the court, "Had a group of petitioner's business competitors conspired and combined to suppress petitioner's business by refusing to sell goods and services to it, such a combination would have violated the Sherman Act." (p.824).

Um - bill, this case (still good law) goes directly AGAINST your statement. No, the businessman had ZERO choice.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Andy9o8 3]

Seems to me Mr. Hunt got off pretty easy. A union guy got killed. Mr. Hunt kept his skin.

[lawrocket 3]

It is an excellent point you have. The UAW and Luca Brasi will make you an offer you can't refuse.

My wife is hotter than your wife.